Cowra Lines - 2019 study

 
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
https://gateway.icn.org.au/project/4265/cowra-lines-reinstatement-feasibility-study-tender?st=projects&psid=1550793438

A new study to look at the lines.
Though by John Holland this time - not sure why but they've not made much of a deal about this as an election issue....

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  safeworking Station Staff

Location: Bungendore
I had a fast look at the scope of services for this study and it is quite comprehensive. It is to look at all of the Cowra lines including out to Grenfell and Eugowra. The costs of reinstating each section of line are to be calculated.  The potential for freight generation both agricultural and other is to be explored. The viability and location of open access intermodal facilities are to be explored. The employment potential of re-opening the lines is to be estimated. The economic costs of NOT re-opening the lines is to be calculated. Specifically mentioned are the costings for refurbishing the Cowra bridge and viaduct; improving clearances through Cacoar tunnel; specific costings of any other bridge reconstruction exceeding $1M; and the replacement costs of timber openings (culverts and small bridges). Locations for three new crossing loops for 1300 metre trains are to be recommended, as are recommendations on route deviations on ease of construction and operational grounds.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Wow. That should put it in the too hard basket again until the next election draws near.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I had a fast look at the scope of services for this study and it is quite comprehensive. It is to look at all of the Cowra lines including out to Grenfell and Eugowra. The costs of reinstating each section of line are to be calculated.  The potential for freight generation both agricultural and other is to be explored. The viability and location of open access intermodal facilities are to be explored. The employment potential of re-opening the lines is to be estimated. The economic costs of NOT re-opening the lines is to be calculated. Specifically mentioned are the costings for refurbishing the Cowra bridge and viaduct; improving clearances through Cacoar tunnel; specific costings of any other bridge reconstruction exceeding $1M; and the replacement costs of timber openings (culverts and small bridges). Locations for three new crossing loops for 1300 metre trains are to be recommended, as are recommendations on route deviations on ease of construction and operational grounds.
safeworking
Very Interesting indeed as its certainly put out pre election but not finalised till well after the election. Public transport and rail in particular will be playing a big part in the election from both sides of the ledger, the Nationals in particular are going to push hard in that area, likewise Labor in the federal election in May and none will be missing in next months State election either.

The biggest bug bear is the aspect regarding the branch line reopenings, along with what traffic they could generate, that would change to a degree with the bits that mention and reflect the concepts of realigning the tracks on both branches and the main cross country lines as well.

IF, & this is the biggest word in the English dictionary, if there is a real push towards getting freight off roads especially rural roads that councils have to fix rather than the main roads authorities (RTA) then there could be a big increase in what used to be a big player in the areas rail transport, with the drought affecting so many areas, the region is a very big Hay and feed producing area, with a big farm now on the market near Gooloogong.  The Eugowra lines biggest issues are the line goes through the Cowra edge in town, also the last main section from Nyrang Crk -Eugowra would be hardly viable TBH owing to its goat track diversion around the hills, and closeness to Forbes for Grain.

From memory and photo's available the main bridge at Cowra was upgraded very much from the old one some time back mainly in the approaches but who knows in regard to the condition of the steel sections though.

Carcoar tunnel would be best by simply ignoring it and diverting the line to the western side of the tunnel by means of a cutting and road underbridge, that could straighten the curves on both side of the tunnel and knock the clearance issue on the head.

I believe there is enough freight in the area to warrant the cross line being reopened along with some sections of the branches, perhaps part of the reasons for the rethink is that once the ILR is complete the Stockinbingal -Parkes line may not have the paths available, with the Cowra option being a fair backup.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Scope of work really is extensive. Seems a determination is likely, one way or another.
And as above, ILR may have an impact.
So would the south connection at Demndrille, need reinstating? Or a run around at Harden surfice?
Also as above, timing is questionable.
One possible outcome of the study, is review again prior to next state election.
Too pessimistic?
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
The line is dead unless something else develops that can outweigh  the maintenance costs, just can't see it Gunzels.
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
There was a bunch on money approved to reinstate the short leg to Maimiru, near Young. Not sure if any work has been done on that section but, with drought conditions, i’m Pretty sure there hasn’t yet been a revenue train even on that section.

If we’re going to pour taxpayer money into wet dreams, why not build a wye at Joppa while we’re at it. Then we can run through trains from Bathurst to Eden (see the Canberra to Eden thread)?
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Maimuru- correction
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The line is dead unless something else develops that can outweigh  the maintenance costs, just can't see it Gunzels.
Junction box
Realistically, can't see any mothballed/closed lines reopened for traffic.
See Casino-North
Rylstone-Mudgee, been tried
Cowra lines, also tried.
Nor any new construction. Except ILR, and Sydney metropolitan area. Be it Metro heavy or light rail. And possibly light rail, Newcastle Canberra and maybe the Gong.
Discussed in other threads.
South of Bomaderry, no. Bombala to Eden no. Really pie in the sky thoughts.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Scope of work really is extensive. Seems a determination is likely, one way or another.
And as above, ILR may have an impact.
So would the south connection at Demndrille, need reinstating? Or a run around at Harden surfice?
Also as above, timing is questionable.
One possible outcome of the study, is review again prior to next state election.
Too pessimistic?
michaelgm
If the lines are reopened, even if the branches are not, for it to serve as an alternative to the ILR the South end of the Demondrille  Jct would be seen as a key part of the work.  It would save a lot of time compared to running to Harden and then running around train to head back south.  Same could be said at Blayney but nowhere near as far to run.

While most do not believe it will happen and is likely going to be the case, there has been pressure for it from the Log supplies to load at Bathurst and go to Coota, for final processing at Tumut, rather than the run through Sydney.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Scope of work really is extensive. Seems a determination is likely, one way or another.
And as above, ILR may have an impact.
So would the south connection at Demndrille, need reinstating? Or a run around at Harden surfice?
Also as above, timing is questionable.
One possible outcome of the study, is review again prior to next state election.
Too pessimistic?
If the lines are reopened, even if the branches are not, for it to serve as an alternative to the ILR the South end of the Demondrille  Jct would be seen as a key part of the work.  It would save a lot of time compared to running to Harden and then running around train to head back south.  Same could be said at Blayney but nowhere near as far to run.

While most do not believe it will happen and is likely going to be the case, there has been pressure for it from the Log supplies to load at Bathurst and go to Coota, for final processing at Tumut, rather than the run through Sydney.
a6et
Last I heard the log traffic to Tumut from Kandos had stopped (this was about 2 yrs ago).  Has this changed?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Scope of work really is extensive. Seems a determination is likely, one way or another.
And as above, ILR may have an impact.
So would the south connection at Demndrille, need reinstating? Or a run around at Harden surfice?
Also as above, timing is questionable.
One possible outcome of the study, is review again prior to next state election.
Too pessimistic?
If the lines are reopened, even if the branches are not, for it to serve as an alternative to the ILR the South end of the Demondrille  Jct would be seen as a key part of the work.  It would save a lot of time compared to running to Harden and then running around train to head back south.  Same could be said at Blayney but nowhere near as far to run.

While most do not believe it will happen and is likely going to be the case, there has been pressure for it from the Log supplies to load at Bathurst and go to Coota, for final processing at Tumut, rather than the run through Sydney.
Last I heard the log traffic to Tumut from Kandos had stopped (this was about 2 yrs ago).  Has this changed?
james.au
There is log exports via Bx, comes by road to there and rail out.  I had not heard of any from Kandos to Tumut only from other western areas.  Way things ebb and flow who knows?

I know many do not see this as being viable, thing is this report is very much different to what has happened in the past, first one to mention diversions along with including the whole line and branches.  To me there is more than meets the eye, especiall as the enquiry and reports will come in after the elections. Not holding my breath and I know how much freight was on the lines in the past also the fact that most of it was deliberately turned away and not just lost
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

There has been much said about additional Bathurst bullet service(s).  Eventually, could an additional Bathurst to Sydney service start from Cowra?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

There has been much said about additional Bathurst bullet service(s).  Eventually, could an additional Bathurst to Sydney service start from Cowra?
ANR

Well considering that the line to cowra is decommissioned that would be a NO. Orange has more hope.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Orange has far better population and an affluent one that has connections to Sydney (eg Department of Ag, the unis etc) so would be the natural connection instead of Cowra.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

There could be at least one Cowra service, maybe connecting to Blayney, and the Orange to Sydney service could pick them up from Blayney, or have a Cowra to Sydney, with two Orange to Sydney services, (not including ex Dubbo).

Living in Blayney or Bathurst would then see multiple services into Sydney.

Even then, they could terminate at Lithgow or Mount Victoria for interurban connection and more frequent running. Kind of like a shuttle service.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
There could be at least one Cowra service, maybe connecting to Blayney, and the Orange to Sydney service could pick them up from Blayney,
ANR
A service like that would likely be provided by a bus, as the Orange service currently is.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Maimuru- correction
SinickleBird

Can you help me from Young to this location or from another location on the line to this location?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Maimuru is just to the north west of Young - it should display if you search for it in Google Maps.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Maimuru is just to the north west of Young - it should display if you search for it in Google Maps.
james.au
When you search of that place on earth it comes up in two different locations, other than the silo location, certainly put the name in search box but divert across to Young, and if you have the transport box ticked it still shows the line to Cowra, with the silo near the Henry Lawson Way level crossing.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Maimuru is just to the north west of Young - it should display if you search for it in Google Maps.
When you search of that place on earth it comes up in two different locations, other than the silo location, certainly put the name in search box but divert across to Young, and if you have the transport box ticked it still shows the line to Cowra, with the silo near the Henry Lawson Way level crossing.
a6et
The locality is what shows up for me, being a large area to the west of the former station/silo in a red outline with red shading.

The station/silo that has the name is of course a separate location on the line/road.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Maimuru is just to the north west of Young - it should display if you search for it in Google Maps.
When you search of that place on earth it comes up in two different locations, other than the silo location, certainly put the name in search box but divert across to Young, and if you have the transport box ticked it still shows the line to Cowra, with the silo near the Henry Lawson Way level crossing.
The locality is what shows up for me, being a large area to the west of the former station/silo in a red outline with red shading.

The station/silo that has the name is of course a separate location on the line/road.
james.au
James. I would suggest that the google red spot is generalised as is the other location, and most likely comes up as that of a property named Maimuru.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Maimuru is just to the north west of Young - it should display if you search for it in Google Maps.
When you search of that place on earth it comes up in two different locations, other than the silo location, certainly put the name in search box but divert across to Young, and if you have the transport box ticked it still shows the line to Cowra, with the silo near the Henry Lawson Way level crossing.
The locality is what shows up for me, being a large area to the west of the former station/silo in a red outline with red shading.

The station/silo that has the name is of course a separate location on the line/road.
James. I would suggest that the google red spot is generalised as is the other location, and most likely comes up as that of a property named Maimuru.
a6et
The way things work out there (the way the surveyors set it up aaaages ago) is that there are whole ares of land of land that are called a name, and for some of these that name is one and the same with a little village that is in the area that was in most cases developed after the surveyors went through.  The railways used these names when putting silos in.  In Maimuru's case the red shaded land probably came first (labelled as such by the surveyors), then the silo, then the buildings around the silo area arrived later.  In this case however the village is actually in the land area of Young.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
is this project separate from the Tocumwal proposals or are they combined?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Completely separate

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