The Dedicated RRA Propaganda Thread

 
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I had a look at the RRA FB page - Duncan Ramsey wont support him yet, says 2030 is not soon enough for his proposed Castlemaine to Maryborough to Ararat service !!

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I had a look at the RRA FB page - Duncan Ramsey wont support him yet, says 2030 is not soon enough for his proposed Castlemaine to Maryborough to Ararat service !!
mikesyd
Its needed around the same time when the Mildura metropolitan network opens (may 2019)
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
And here I was thinking that the RRA were crackers. This guy is way over the top.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I had a look at the RRA FB page - Duncan Ramsey wont support him yet, says 2030 is not soon enough for his proposed Castlemaine to Maryborough to Ararat service !!
Its needed around the same time when the Mildura metropolitan network opens (may 2019)
Dangersdan707

Below is the timetable, or at least one version of the Mildura 'suburban' service to Ouyen and Yelta.

A few years after this timetable, the rail motor ran from Yelta to Red Cliffs and vv for a period of time that I cannot find atm, therefore extending the Mildura 'suburban' service.

https://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1928country/23_24.html

Thanks to Mark Bau's 1928 VR timetable.

Mike.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I had a look at the RRA FB page - Duncan Ramsey wont support him yet, says 2030 is not soon enough for his proposed Castlemaine to Maryborough to Ararat service !!
Its needed around the same time when the Mildura metropolitan network opens (may 2019)

Below is the timetable, or at least one version of the Mildura 'suburban' service to Ouyen and Yelta.

A few years after this timetable, the rail motor ran from Yelta to Red Cliffs and vv for a period of time that I cannot find atm, therefore extending the Mildura 'suburban' service.

https://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1928country/23_24.html

Thanks to Mark Bau's 1928 VR timetable.

Mike.
The Vinelander
He probably wont copy that TT though - he is probably trying to find Chidda Bang to be his TT expert.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I had a look at the RRA FB page - Duncan Ramsey wont support him yet, says 2030 is not soon enough for his proposed Castlemaine to Maryborough to Ararat service !!
Its needed around the same time when the Mildura metropolitan network opens (may 2019)

Below is the timetable, or at least one version of the Mildura 'suburban' service to Ouyen and Yelta.

A few years after this timetable, the rail motor ran from Yelta to Red Cliffs and vv for a period of time that I cannot find atm, therefore extending the Mildura 'suburban' service.

https://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/1928country/23_24.html

Thanks to Mark Bau's 1928 VR timetable.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Interesting to note that in those days, the Mildura train ran via Castlemaine, not via Ballarat.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
A rather extraordinary document has been posted to the RRA Facebook page this morning detailing a plan for Victoria's transport network to 2050. I have uploaded it to Railpage so it can be readily accessed and hopefully it will be approved shortly.

Highlights (of which there are many, many more than I could hope to fit in this post) include:
  • 2 daily trains to Manangatang and Sea Lake
  • A 20-minute metro service between Mildura, Merbein and Red Cliffs
  • 6 trains an hour on a new direct line between Rosebud and Hastings
  • Returning every single W class tram to service
  • Conversion of the Sandringham line to monorail
  • Petrol traffic along a diverted Glen Waverley line, terminating at Chadstone
  • A large program of investment in solar-powered rollingstock, including this astute observation: "it is not advised to run such trains in underground tunnels."
  • I look forward to a sensible and rational discussion of these proposals, please.


    The author of this venerable report has now announced his candidacy for the Senate at the upcoming election.

    http://www.robertwhitehill.net/

    His comprehensive transport policies may be found on his website.

    No doubt he will be elected in a rare Senate landslide and we will soon see Commonwealth funds flowing to the Manangantang Passenger Rail Revitalisation.
    potatoinmymouth
    I just Realised that he's the guy running the Peninsula Rail link 'Campaign'


    The Peninsula Rail Link's designer, Robert Whitehill, will be running for parliament as an Independent in the Upper House! Obviously his first promise is the construction of the Peninsula Rail Link. On February 9 he will be visiting shops along Point Nepean Road in Mornington, Dromana, Rosebud and Rye. On February 10 he will be visiting the shops in Somerville and Hastings. Like the page below to follow his campaign.
    Peninsula Rail link Faceblock
      speedemon08 Mary

    Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
    A rather extraordinary document has been posted to the RRA Facebook page this morning detailing a plan for Victoria's transport network to 2050. I have uploaded it to Railpage so it can be readily accessed and hopefully it will be approved shortly.

    Highlights (of which there are many, many more than I could hope to fit in this post) include:
  • 2 daily trains to Manangatang and Sea Lake
  • A 20-minute metro service between Mildura, Merbein and Red Cliffs
  • 6 trains an hour on a new direct line between Rosebud and Hastings
  • Returning every single W class tram to service
  • Conversion of the Sandringham line to monorail
  • Petrol traffic along a diverted Glen Waverley line, terminating at Chadstone
  • A large program of investment in solar-powered rollingstock, including this astute observation: "it is not advised to run such trains in underground tunnels."
  • I look forward to a sensible and rational discussion of these proposals, please.


    The author of this venerable report has now announced his candidacy for the Senate at the upcoming election.

    http://www.robertwhitehill.net/

    His comprehensive transport policies may be found on his website.

    No doubt he will be elected in a rare Senate landslide and we will soon see Commonwealth funds flowing to the Manangantang Passenger Rail Revitalisation.
    I just Realised that he's the guy running the Peninsula Rail link 'Campaign'


    The Peninsula Rail Link's designer, Robert Whitehill, will be running for parliament as an Independent in the Upper House! Obviously his first promise is the construction of the Peninsula Rail Link. On February 9 he will be visiting shops along Point Nepean Road in Mornington, Dromana, Rosebud and Rye. On February 10 he will be visiting the shops in Somerville and Hastings. Like the page below to follow his campaign.
    Dangersdan707
    He also started that Save the A class petition a few years back, to get a judge of his character.....
      Carnot Chief Commissioner

    A doozy from RRA today on FB:

    "Proposal for the Return of a Passenger Rail Service to Mildura.
    The N class diesels and N carriages will be withdrawn progressively from service as the long distance V/locities come on stream. Make an approach to the government to have a set of N Carriages and N class diesels converted to SG for a push pull service form Mildura to Maryborough as an interim that will then enable leverage to get a V/locity service to Mildura.
    The government will be highly accessible to this proposal as it will bring them badly needed kudos to the region and with Ali Cupper's lobbying and advocating it has an enormous possibility and get the media behind it and the Mildura council.

    It will be a good use of withdrawn rolling stock that does not have to be scrapped and the government will only have to pay for the conversion to SG and rehabilitation of railway stations, which I believe is happening to St Arnaud station.

    The union will endorse and support this proposal as it expands employment and services on the regional Network."
      justarider Chief Train Controller

    Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
    The doozy bit being that the withdrawn N sets from the Albury line are already SG. The RRA attention to detail is no surprise.

    Actually I support for long while a return to Mildura using minimal effort, and a N set between Mildura and Maryborough fits the bill as something that can be done within reason.

    Over to you Vinelander

    cheers
    John
      mikesyd Chief Commissioner

    Location: Lurking
    A doozy from RRA today on FB:

    "Proposal for the Return of a Passenger Rail Service to Mildura.
    The N class diesels and N carriages will be withdrawn progressively from service as the long distance V/locities come on stream. Make an approach to the government to have a set of N Carriages and N class diesels converted to SG for a push pull service form Mildura to Maryborough as an interim that will then enable leverage to get a V/locity service to Mildura.
    The government will be highly accessible to this proposal as it will bring them badly needed kudos to the region and with Ali Cupper's lobbying and advocating it has an enormous possibility and get the media behind it and the Mildura council.

    It will be a good use of withdrawn rolling stock that does not have to be scrapped and the government will only have to pay for the conversion to SG and rehabilitation of railway stations, which I believe is happening to St Arnaud station.

    The union will endorse and support this proposal as it expands employment and services on the regional Network."
    Carnot
    But then the N Carriage set will suddenly be pulled from service at Mildura one day when it is found that the A/C has failed in one of the toilets, thus causing the service to be bustituted for weeks while the set is taken to Melbourne for repair where it sits waiting for a period of time awaiting its turn.Razz
      Carnot Chief Commissioner

    Let's do the Maths:

    - Current Fruity freight takes 7 hours and 10 min from Mildura to Maryborough.  I would not want to travel any faster in a Passenger train on that track to be honest....
    - Maryborough to SCS is another 2 hr and 30 min.
    - Thus total time to travel = 10 hours at least.

    Mildura to SCS via Swan Hill is currently just under 8 hrs (3 hours in a bus, 4.5 hrs on an unreliable train).

    A Mildura train might be attractive if it's an overnight sleeper train IMO.
      RustyRick Chief Commissioner

    Location: South West Vic
    Let's do the Maths:

    - Current Fruity freight takes 7 hours and 10 min from Mildura to Maryborough.  I would not want to travel any faster in a Passenger train on that track to be honest....
    - Maryborough to SCS is another 2 hr and 30 min.
    - Thus total time to travel = 10 hours at least.

    Mildura to SCS via Swan Hill is currently just under 8 hrs (3 hours in a bus, 4.5 hrs on an unreliable train).

    A Mildura train might be attractive if it's an overnight sleeper train IMO.
    Carnot
    Ahhh, but they are only using this as a short term fix until the Long Distance V/locities replace the N's, then everything will magically be able to run at 160 km/h. 2 1/2 hours, 3 tops to Maryborough, then another 2 1/2 to Melbourne. BOOM! QANTAS etc, you're in trouble...

    Rick
      justarider Chief Train Controller

    Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
    Let's do the Maths:

    - Current Fruity freight takes 7 hours and 10 min from Mildura to Maryborough.  I would not want to travel any faster in a Passenger train on that track to be honest....
    - Maryborough to SCS is another 2 hr and 30 min.
    - Thus total time to travel = 10 hours at least.

    Mildura to SCS via Swan Hill is currently just under 8 hrs (3 hours in a bus, 4.5 hrs on an unreliable train).

    A Mildura train might be attractive if it's an overnight sleeper train IMO.
    Carnot
    Fruity also takes about 50 minutes rests along the way. Run time closer to 6hr 20.

    If N sets, then the usual +15kph for passenger may apply, giving a line speed of 95kph.
    About 5 hours to Maryborough: temp restrictions and unprotected crossings not withstanding.

    That makes 8:30 hrs doable.
    Not great in the modern era, but just possible to attract custom. Any big spend on better rolling stock (inc sleepers) blows the economics out the window.

    Vlo are a waste until the track is upgraded to Class 2  (ie: never)

    cheers
    John
      potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

    Vlo are a waste until the track is upgraded to Class 2 (ie: never)
    justarider

    Well... never is a long time. Remember by the end of 2022, Ballarat-Maryborough, Bendigo-Swan Hill and Traralgon-Bairnsdale will be the only Class 3 sections left on the passenger network. I would not be surprised if the first and last of these are addressed with funding twixt now and then.

    In that context it looks a lot more plausible. Still very questionable, but not totally outlandish.
      justarider Chief Train Controller

    Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
    Vlo are a waste until the track is upgraded to Class 2 (ie: never)

    Well... never is a long time. Remember by the end of 2022, Ballarat-Maryborough, Bendigo-Swan Hill and Traralgon-Bairnsdale will be the only Class 3 sections left on the passenger network. I would not be surprised if the first and last of these are addressed with funding twixt now and then.

    In that context it looks a lot more plausible. Still very questionable, but not totally outlandish.
    potatoinmymouth
    is "never" as long as Mike's waiting time for the return of Mildura pax?

    cheers
    John
      BigShunter Chief Commissioner

    Location: St Clair. S.A.
    I'm going to break Murphy's law, here and respond to this Hogg Wash attempt at writing an article.

    https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/dunolly-grain-terminal-a-victim-of-the-mbrp-debacle

    GrainCorps terminal at Dunolly, I would say by the dilapidated machinery, it has been a very long time since grain was loaded onto a train and exactly how long ago was this, furthermore that's GrainCorp's business, not the Govt's.

    You might want to direct your arguments to the said grain company not the Govt.

    What quantity of grain do they receive in an average year, what and where is the market for this grain and what quantities does it need to be delivered in ?

    As far as Stuff Ups go, Scott Ramsay has a Blundering Stuff Up every time he opens his mouth, how he hasn't copped a backhander from someone I'll never know.

    BigShunter.

    ps. you can only contain so much pressure, no good blowing a gasket.

    pps. Murphy's Law, for those not in the know;

    Never argue with a Fool, people may Not Know the Difference.................Razz
      kuldalai Chief Commissioner

    More crap on Murray Basin from the inimitably incorrect Scott Ramsay of  RRLA .

    Scott claims totally incorrectly that there is no money left to signal the newly operational Ararat sg cross connection .

    The current manual safeworking arrangements are an interim arrangement till full signalling is installed as already funded later in the year .

    The reason for the delay is two fold . Firstly the scheme finally adopted scheme now involves a signalled connection from the Maryborough Line at Ararat both across the broad gauge line towards Maroona, and now as well into the Ararat Yard and via Switchlock at the Down end of that Yard towards Adelaide .  The late decision to provide a connection into the Yard towards Adelaide requires a completely revised signalling / interlocking design .

    Secondly there is a world shortage of signal design engineers and this has delayed the revised signal design , plus altered acquisition of requisite signalling equipment which is some what different that the original scheme put forward .

    In the meantime 10 Mildura trains a week can use the new cross link under manual safeworking arrangements whilst each train saving 45 mins travel time minimum in each direction .

    It is noted that RRLA completely ignores GOOD news like the recent increase in Mildura services from 6 to 10 trains a week .
      x31 Chief Commissioner

    Location: gallifrey
    I remember reading the project was already well over budget so who is providing the additional funding?

    I think the project was already joint funded with the federal and state governments?
      The Vinelander Minister for Railways

    Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
    The doozy bit being that the withdrawn N sets from the Albury line are already SG. The RRA attention to detail is no surprise.

    Actually I support for long while a return to Mildura using minimal effort, and a N set between Mildura and Maryborough fits the bill as something that can be done within reason.

    Over to you Vinelander

    cheers
    John
    justarider

    Hmm...well I actually replied to the letter...

    Oops...looks like I've been outed. Smile

    http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/5917974/letter-old-trains-a-way-to-get-rail-rolling-to-mildura/?cs=1385

    Mike.
      x42 Junior Train Controller

    Location: NSW
    More crap on RRA Facebook or is this actually true ?



    This is the RRAV's in the reality response to the politically fanciful V/line MBRP Report

    When you build a new road, do you build it for the horse and cart OR for the expected increase in modern traffic?

    The latest Murray Basin Rail Project update circulated on 22.02.2019 has some impressive statements and colours on it but is sadly lacking in detail.  It is authored in a very positive manner without acknowledging shortcomings in the system that will remain as obstacles to increased business and operator use.
    All of these issues are contributing to longer and less efficient train running times while the headline for the original project was ‘building infrastructure for the future’.  
    There are a range of problems (not conclusive by any means) including:
    • Maryborough to Yelta route,
    o Line speed is 80Km however along this track 19.95km is speed restricted due to track faults.
    o All Crossing Loops have had operating speeds reduced to 30km on the diverge track and 40km on the straight track compared to previously being 40km on the diverge and linespeed/65km on the straight track.

    • Ararat to Maryborough route, 87km, splendidly announced as a track speed of 65kph
    o The 65kph applies to 22.2km of this track and only for Locomotives of the T and Y class, wagons of 19 tonnes or less per axle, current running rolling stock is confined to 40kph for all operators.
    o Speed restrictions are also applied to 23.59km of the section with a variety of track faults and sighting issues being the cause.

    • Ouyen to Murrayville route, 109km
    o Before conversion to Standard Gauge the speed was 40kph for the first 16.25km and then 30kph for the remaining 93km – following the conversion the whole 109km is now restricted to 25kph, a total increase in transit time of 1 hour.
    o Heat restrictions also apply whenever the temperature is predicted 33c or above, no movement allowed between 12:00 and 22:00.
    o Compounding the above restrictions, the removal of infrastructure in Ouyen has increased the shunt turnaround time for Murrayville bound traffic from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours or longer dependent upon train configuration.

    • Maryborough Railyard
    o Capacity reduced from staging 4 trains to zero, all due to infrastructure removal and refusal despite repeated requests to reinstate by Freight Operators.
    o The yard is currently unavailable for crossing moves due to incomplete works leaving it unsafe for personnel to work in, various issues including uneven pit covers, uneven walking paths, rail and construction debris in walkways.

    • Donald Railyard and Grain Sub terminal
    o Capacity reduced due to infrastructure being removed, Project Management agreed to retain No 2 track but within 2 weeks following this it was ripped up – no excuses given, just bad luck
    o Reduced infrastructure at Sub Terminal has meant reduced loading capacity and increased shunt times, 30 wagons only down from 40.
    o To load 40 wagons at Donald would severely hamper existing customer operations in Donald yard by shunting within boundaries and halting all movement within his siding precinct.

    Murray Basin Rail Project Update 22.02.2019

    Claimed as delivered Actually delivered

    Maryborough-Yelta line speed of 80kph Approx 20km of track is speed limited by various faults
    Maryborough-Yelta Crossing Loops all commissioned Speed reduced for entry and exit of Crossing Loops to 30km and 40km respectively

    Ararat-Maryborough line speed of 65kph 22.2km of track at 65kph for T aand Y Class Locomotives and wagons of 19T per axle or less, balance at 40kph for modern rolling stock and limited by 23.59km of restrictions for faults

    Ouyen-Murrayville  Line speed of 25kph for entire track, reduced from 40kph for 1st 17km and 30kph for balance of 109km, increased transit time of 1 hour

    Ouyen-Murrayville  Heat restrictions apply to whole of track at 33c, no movement between 12:00 and 22:00

    Ouyen-Murrayville Shunt time increased by 100% at Ouyen due to infrastructure removal

    Maryborough Yard Reduced capacity due to removal of infrastructure, unsafe for use due to incomplete pathing works, railway debris, uneven pit covers

    Donald Yard and Sub Terminal Reduced capacity due to infrastructure removal, extended shunt times for attaching wagons, disruption to existing customer if more than 30 wagons sent to load site.
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    More crap on RRA Facebook or is this actually true ?



    This is the RRAV's in the reality response to the politically fanciful V/line MBRP Report

    When you build a new road, do you build it for the horse and cart OR for the expected increase in modern traffic?

    The latest Murray Basin Rail Project update circulated on 22.02.2019 has some impressive statements and colours on it but is sadly lacking in detail.  It is authored in a very positive manner without acknowledging shortcomings in the system that will remain as obstacles to increased business and operator use.
    All of these issues are contributing to longer and less efficient train running times while the headline for the original project was ‘building infrastructure for the future’.  
    There are a range of problems (not conclusive by any means) including:
    • Maryborough to Yelta route,
    o Line speed is 80Km however along this track 19.95km is speed restricted due to track faults.
    o All Crossing Loops have had operating speeds reduced to 30km on the diverge track and 40km on the straight track compared to previously being 40km on the diverge and linespeed/65km on the straight track.

    • Ararat to Maryborough route, 87km, splendidly announced as a track speed of 65kph
    o The 65kph applies to 22.2km of this track and only for Locomotives of the T and Y class, wagons of 19 tonnes or less per axle, current running rolling stock is confined to 40kph for all operators.
    o Speed restrictions are also applied to 23.59km of the section with a variety of track faults and sighting issues being the cause.

    • Ouyen to Murrayville route, 109km
    o Before conversion to Standard Gauge the speed was 40kph for the first 16.25km and then 30kph for the remaining 93km – following the conversion the whole 109km is now restricted to 25kph, a total increase in transit time of 1 hour.
    o Heat restrictions also apply whenever the temperature is predicted 33c or above, no movement allowed between 12:00 and 22:00.
    o Compounding the above restrictions, the removal of infrastructure in Ouyen has increased the shunt turnaround time for Murrayville bound traffic from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours or longer dependent upon train configuration.

    • Maryborough Railyard
    o Capacity reduced from staging 4 trains to zero, all due to infrastructure removal and refusal despite repeated requests to reinstate by Freight Operators.
    o The yard is currently unavailable for crossing moves due to incomplete works leaving it unsafe for personnel to work in, various issues including uneven pit covers, uneven walking paths, rail and construction debris in walkways.

    • Donald Railyard and Grain Sub terminal
    o Capacity reduced due to infrastructure being removed, Project Management agreed to retain No 2 track but within 2 weeks following this it was ripped up – no excuses given, just bad luck
    o Reduced infrastructure at Sub Terminal has meant reduced loading capacity and increased shunt times, 30 wagons only down from 40.
    o To load 40 wagons at Donald would severely hamper existing customer operations in Donald yard by shunting within boundaries and halting all movement within his siding precinct.

    Murray Basin Rail Project Update 22.02.2019

    Claimed as delivered Actually delivered

    Maryborough-Yelta line speed of 80kph Approx 20km of track is speed limited by various faults
    Maryborough-Yelta Crossing Loops all commissioned Speed reduced for entry and exit of Crossing Loops to 30km and 40km respectively

    Ararat-Maryborough line speed of 65kph 22.2km of track at 65kph for T aand Y Class Locomotives and wagons of 19T per axle or less, balance at 40kph for modern rolling stock and limited by 23.59km of restrictions for faults

    Ouyen-Murrayville  Line speed of 25kph for entire track, reduced from 40kph for 1st 17km and 30kph for balance of 109km, increased transit time of 1 hour

    Ouyen-Murrayville  Heat restrictions apply to whole of track at 33c, no movement between 12:00 and 22:00

    Ouyen-Murrayville Shunt time increased by 100% at Ouyen due to infrastructure removal

    Maryborough Yard Reduced capacity due to removal of infrastructure, unsafe for use due to incomplete pathing works, railway debris, uneven pit covers

    Donald Yard and Sub Terminal Reduced capacity due to infrastructure removal, extended shunt times for attaching wagons, disruption to existing customer if more than 30 wagons sent to load site.
    x42
    Proof that these lines should have never been standardised in the first place.

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    Subscribers: Dangersdan707, speedemon08

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