Public Transport Victoria forum hears call for more Maryborough train services

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 06 Mar 2019 08:36
  MetroFemme Chief Train Controller

On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister. 

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?

Public Transport Victoria forum hears call for more Maryborough train services

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  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
It has been discussed there are perceived rolling stock shortages but the new timetable does not show any increased services on the Maryborough line.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister.

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?

Public Transport Victoria forum hears call for more Maryborough train services
MetroFemme
Probably the highly subsidies required.

Are you prepared to pay more tax?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister.

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?

Public Transport Victoria forum hears call for more Maryborough train services
MetroFemme

Probably the fact the track is generally stuffed...particularly around Guildford and requires Mega$ to be fixed, moreover, at this time I don't believe it's the policy of the Andrews government...YET to re-open that line.

Mike.
  MetroFemme Chief Train Controller

I am not sure of the validity of the more tax statement however I don't believe in paying more tax when what pay now is poorly managed by successive governments. The argument for better rail services is driven by in most respects the need to provide the best transport options for the community linking the community together. The 1970's have thankfully past as has the Kennett era.

The provision of services is now more aligned with social economics but unfortunately there are some in the community who will always find excuses or reasons to continue the paradigm of cost. What is not well understood is the cost of not providing services which are pegged to other developed economies.

Sadly this country and this state in particular lags behind other developed nations.

Anyone walking around the capital city of Victoria will now notice increased homelessness. One significant reason for this has been the sale and closing down of shelters as developers move in to take hold of both government and private buildings where the Homeless had previously been given access.

To state we shouldn't improve the way we live and work in communities across the state is ridiculous.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Sadly this country and this state in particular lags behind other developed nations.

MetroFemme
Although when it comes to whingeing well ahead of the pack, including the Poms Razz
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I am not sure of the validity of the more tax statement however I don't believe in paying more tax when what pay now is poorly managed by successive governments. The argument for better rail services is driven by in most respects the need to provide the best transport options for the community linking the community together. The 1970's have thankfully past as has the Kennett era.

The provision of services is now more aligned with social economics but unfortunately there are some in the community who will always find excuses or reasons to continue the paradigm of cost. What is not well understood is the cost of not providing services which are pegged to other developed economies.

Sadly this country and this state in particular lags behind other developed nations.

Anyone walking around the capital city of Victoria will now notice increased homelessness. One significant reason for this has been the sale and closing down of shelters as developers move in to take hold of both government and private buildings where the Homeless had previously been given access.

To state we shouldn't improve the way we live and work in communities across the state is ridiculous.
MetroFemme
I agree with pretty much all of that. I just can't see how it applies to the Maryborough - Castlemaine Pipe Dream. Where is the demand for this service? Both Castlemaine and Maryborough are well served by public transport (mainly bus in the case of Maryborough). There is an argument for using this line for freight but it is not a strong one - there are already alternatives in use. Without a freight task to pay the bills it would be a chronic waste of money. The many millions of $$$ are far better spent elsewhere at the moment. Fixing the Bendigo line would be a good starting point, undoing the criminal singling of the line north of Kyneton, fixing the problem with RFR trains getting stuck behind Sparx, etc etc

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A lot of this work has been completed by the RRA who have published an extensive report.  Does anyone have a copy of this or shall I ask for a copy and publish it here?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A lot of this work has been completed by the RRA who have published an extensive report.  Does anyone have a copy of this or shall I ask for a copy and publish it here?
bevans
I'm pretty sure that it has been discussed in another forum before (can't remember where, sorry)

I'll choose my words carefully here....... Um, I don't think that a report by the RRA is going to be taken too seriously by the powers that be - they can't use spelling and grammar checks for a start. If you put reports out without thorough proofing they wouldn't even get a look in - the'd be filed straight in the round filing cabinet marked LITTER

You might think that is harsh but it makes them basically impossible to read for anyone with even basic English grades - you end up concentrating so hard on the errors that you lose track of what you are reading and can't concentrate on the message

And before you ask, yes, I have experience in this area.

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
IIRC additional services on the Maryborough line were promised mid last year as an election promise for Vic 2018.  I have not heard or seen any follow-up on this promise of more services since July.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Because the Coalition promised it. Generally the losing team isn’t expected to implement their policies...
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
With the horrible passenger numbers, id be thinking TPTB would want to axe the services rather than let them keep bleeding cash.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
With the horrible passenger numbers, id be thinking TPTB would want to axe the services rather than let them keep bleeding cash.
james.au


Just because the Maryborough services don't carry the equivalent of a packed Comeng on the Cranbourne line doesn't mean it's going to be slated for cancellation.

Mike.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister.

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?
MetroFemme
Having lived in Castlemaine, I can categorically state that no one voluntarily goes to Maryborough unless you have a very specific need. Why would you when Bendigo is larger and closer? Maryborough's a nice town, but it doesn't have the services or shopping that Bendigo has. You wouldn't get many travelling from Maryborough as their major centre is Ballarat. I don't think the bustling metropolis' of Newstead and Carisbrook would contribute much to passenger numbers in either direction.

Honestly I don't know why people are keen on resurrecting the Octopus Act...

Rick
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister.

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?
Having lived in Castlemaine, I can categorically state that no one voluntarily goes to Maryborough unless you have a very specific need. Why would you when Bendigo is larger and closer? Maryborough's a nice town, but it doesn't have the services or shopping that Bendigo has. You wouldn't get many travelling from Maryborough as their major centre is Ballarat. I don't think the bustling metropolis' of Newstead and Carisbrook would contribute much to passenger numbers in either direction.

Honestly I don't know why people are keen on resurrecting the Octopus Act...

Rick
RustyRick

This subject has been discussed several times over the years and IMO the line will eventually be restored in the distant future when the towns along the line, Guildford, Newstead, the metropolis of Joyces Creek etc grow as the tree change movement swells these populations.

Mike.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

How did extra weekend train services, presumably AM Downs & PM Ups, morph into re-opening Maryborough – Castlemaine?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

How did extra weekend train services, presumably AM Downs & PM Ups, morph into re-opening Maryborough – Castlemaine?
kitchgp
Getting back to the original issues service frequencies between  Ballarat & Maryborough .

-  Government as part of RNDP has indicated longer term both Echuca & Maryborough as candidates for 5 each way on Weekdays .  Before State Election 2018  Government promised to extend Maryborough service to Dunolly .

-  Reality check .  Maryborough currently has 2 each way on Weekdays and one each way on Weekends .  Maryborough patronage is the poorest on the entire VLP network with per trip patronage rarely exceeding a road coach load, and easily within a single Sprinter ; just a waste running 3 car VL sets on Ballarat - Maryborough . Now Single Sprinters CAN be run quite safely as Metro do between Frankston and Stony Point provided the lx equipment is activated by axle counters .

- The glaring shortfall in the current Maryborough rail service offer is the lack of an am Down & PM Up service on Saturdays and Sundays . This is esily addressed by extending the 0916 Down to Maryborough and originating the 1813 Up from Maryborough on Saturdays and Sundays . There is ample spare VL sets to allow this to happen .

- Weekdays given the current levels of patronage the provision of a third trip pair which would be a midday Down and a late afternoon Up would be hard to justify in that it would require an additiona 3 car VL to carry beyond Ballarat say 25 passengers, and ditto late afternoon ex Maryborough.  The aforesaid set would be better allocated doubling the capacity of the 1704 Dn Kyneton than being wasted on Maryborough where a road coach can easily handle the task .

As for five trains a day each way on Weekdays Ballarat - Maryborough in reality not  likely , lowest patronized line and will stuff up freight operations on Murray Basin and potentially require two crossing loops between Maryborough & Ballarat .

(Echuca on the other hand well supports its rail services with much higher loadings. Needs am Down (0914) and early afternoon Up (1308) on Weekdays ASAP  (no extra fleet required), and in due course can certainly support  Midday Down and late afternoon Up when fleet is available . )

On longer distance services with three trains each way  the best patronized trains are the am Up & PM down , then the Midday Ups & Downs and finally the am Down and PM Ups.

With 4 trains each way as on Warrnambool the best supported are  early am Up, second am Up, earlly PM down late PM Down,  Midday Up and Down, and finally am Down and late PM up .

With 5 trains each way on Weekdays the patronage support will likely fall as  :  (  1 being highes and 5 being lowest)

Down  am 5  mid am  4  Midday  3  early PM  1   late PM  2
Up  early am 2  second am  1   midday  3  mid afternoon  4  late afternoon  5

NB Country people use rail far more for travel  to their major regional centres  (Geelong, Ballarat & Bendigo) and Melbourne; than Melbourne people use rail to longer distance destinations, despite imroved service frequencies and promotion over the years .
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

"Government promised to extend Maryborough service to Dunolly ."
Slight correction here. Government promised PROVISION for future services out to Dunolly. It's part of that Ballarat Freight seperation project.

No actual committment for the extension.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
On the theme of enhanced services what has become of this need since labor has appeared into power at the last election?  More and more talk from the minister.

What is preventing more services to Maryborough now and why can't these be extended to Castlemaine in the next 3 years?
Having lived in Castlemaine, I can categorically state that no one voluntarily goes to Maryborough unless you have a very specific need. Why would you when Bendigo is larger and closer? Maryborough's a nice town, but it doesn't have the services or shopping that Bendigo has. You wouldn't get many travelling from Maryborough as their major centre is Ballarat. I don't think the bustling metropolis' of Newstead and Carisbrook would contribute much to passenger numbers in either direction.

Honestly I don't know why people are keen on resurrecting the Octopus Act...

Rick

This subject has been discussed several times over the years and IMO the line will eventually be restored in the distant future when the towns along the line, Guildford, Newstead, the metropolis of Joyces Creek etc grow as the tree change movement swells these populations.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Distant Future indeed - the Cemetery at Joyces Creek has a greater population than the rest of the metropolis. The "Mayor of Carisbrook" has probably (pending their resurrection) nominated them all as honorary life(less) members of the RRA as well. Not much around there in the way of trees either, though in a good year there may be some 'water views' of Cairn Curran Reservoir.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Government as part of RNDP has indicated longer term both Echuca & Maryborough as candidates for 5 each way on Weekdays .  Before State Election 2018  Government promised to extend Maryborough service to Dunolly .
kuldalai

No, Maryborough was not identified as a 5 each way service in the RNDP.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/regional-victoria/regional-network-development-plan

Also, as @James.au correctly observed elsewhere, the government did not in fact commit to restoring passenger services to Dunolly, preferring their usual avoidance tactic of "paving the way for future..."

Now Single Sprinters CAN be run quite safely as Metro do between Frankston and Stony Point provided the lx equipment is activated by axle counters .
kuldalai

I'm pretty certain Metro no longer run single Sprinters on the Stony Point, given two of them unexpectedly decided to go their separate ways just a couple of weeks ago.

That's not to mention that the Sprinters are now more than 25 years old and increasingly testy. Running them as single units for a long-term solution is not a great idea.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

Government as part of RNDP has indicated longer term both Echuca & Maryborough as candidates for 5 each way on Weekdays .  Before State Election 2018  Government promised to extend Maryborough service to Dunolly .

No, Maryborough was not identified as a 5 each way service in the RNDP.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/regional-victoria/regional-network-development-plan

Also, as @James.au correctly observed elsewhere, the government did not in fact commit to restoring passenger services to Dunolly, preferring their usual avoidance tactic of "paving the way for future..."

Now Single Sprinters CAN be run quite safely as Metro do between Frankston and Stony Point provided the lx equipment is activated by axle counters .

I'm pretty certain Metro no longer run single Sprinters on the Stony Point, given two of them unexpectedly decided to go their separate ways just a couple of weeks ago.

That's not to mention that the Sprinters are now more than 25 years old and increasingly testy. Running them as single units for a long-term solution is not a great idea.
potatoinmymouth
just to let  you know the following Stony Point service are single sprinters  all up services 5.14 6.18am and the 11.04 and 11.44am...……….have been for a long time....
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

just to let you know the following Stony Point service are single sprinters all up services 5.14 6.18am and the 11.04 and 11.44am...……….have been for a long time....
trainbrain

Thanks, and apologies. I was under the impression single units had never been returned after the level crossing debacle of '16.

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