NSW election thread 2019

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Did I suggest Nationalisation?  No, I didn't.  You've twisted my comments to suit your argument.  You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel Shayne to suggest that.

Of course there's no role for government in running enterprises such as banking, insurance and airlines amongst other things, in which there's a competitive market in private enterprise.  What I'm against is the privatisation of government monopoly services, which should be operated in the public interest, not in the interest of shareholders.  Where do you stop?  Do you privatise the Tax Office, the Treasury or the Parliament itself, which is clearly absurd?  Would you prefer the government to be privatised and run by the corporate sector?  Give me a break!
Transtopic
Transtopic
The point was that Nationalisation of large industries in the name of generating income to fund govt spending is a failure as much as the continued ownership of large industry by the govt.

The idea of selling assets is that you liberate an industry that is now big enough to stand on its own two feet from the govt, you then take that money to develop new industries and/or infrastructure for the next generation.

As far as the loss of recurring revenue. The Aust fed govt generates nearly $400B of income and is less than 25% of the GDP. In a developed economy the govt generates other sources of revenue and any income losses from selling the govt owned enterprises is increasingly minor. If you look at the Dubai Govt which operates very differently from the UAE govt and see where most of its income is coming from and how the govt owned enterprise sector including my own is taking an smaller and smaller step in funding the govt as the govt focuses on developing and expanding the private sector. For example foreign investment in the medical industry here exceeds Australia, but the number of govt owned hospitals a minor and not being expanded as the govt sets its goals on developing the worlds largest medical tourism industry. Likewise banking and finance.

You havn't indicated what should or shouldn't be privatised but you have both agreed with what I said and disagreed.

If we look at some past privatisations, what do you support
CBA
QANTAS
ANL
ANR
GIO
TAB
Govt Printing
Telstra
OTC
Power Generation
Bell Bay Aluminium Smelter
AMPOL
Stevedores
Ports
coal mines
etc

No you don't privatise the ATO or Treasury but do you need to operate everything in these offices. ie cleaners, IT?

Back to Dubai, the Dubai Govt made an interesting statement two years back. They saw no reason Govt services cannot be contracted out to ensure the public get the best possible service and at the same time planned to close most govt service shop fronts to be replaced with online services.

I think the key to improving some of the govt sectors performance is too look at contracting out and franchising. For example is the govt the best organisation to run a suburban railway, or just pay someone with access to world wide operations to do it?

Australia Post was never privatised because it was considered a world leader by the Howard govt and one of few making a profit, however times have changed and AP changing into a courier service. Should the govt be running another DHL? Are we not back to why the govt had to sell Telstra?

I lived in Gladstone the day the 5 or 7 year moratorium expired on redundancies after sale of the Gladstone Power Station. The difference in the number of cars in the carpark from one weekend to the next after the redundancies was an eye opener.

As QR was privatised, the redudencies kept on coming as the board started to trim the fat and remove the Rock Painters and other value adding roles of the Qld Govt Employement Service pretending to be a railway.

My own industry, Aluminium had its birth in Australia as a JV between the Tas and Aust govt starting Bell Bay. After 5 years the smelter was failing financially, the feds sold out instead of planned closure. The private sector grew that small smelter to 5 times its size and invested in a aluminium refinery and bauxite mine and later one of the worlds largest smelters Boyne.

Long answer but just trying to demonstrate that their are many reasons for going down the privatisation path. Yes not all have been successful and some never were going to be.

Sponsored advertisement

  doridori Chief Commissioner

At the end of the day, I look at one location and it says all I need to make a decision.
Oran Park.

It was a historical race track, that was still regularly utilised in a modern era.
It was demolished under the promise of a replacement and improved local services.
There is NO replacement race track.
This leaves an entire sporting industry stuck with one race track in Sydney, when there was approximately 10 in this generation!
The school being built there is still yet to formally start beyond turning of the first sod and it was supposed to be completed before my Nieces started school. They are in high school now!
I don't think they even have a rail line to it either.

Both major parties are pathetic, short-sighted, arrogant, self-serving fools, and us more so for continuing to vote for them.

I have contacted the AEC, asking how I formally lodge an informal/protest vote, without the vote going to the party that currently holds the seat (oh yeah, all those funny idea's for informal votes, they go to the person that currently holds the seat, and yes, they get paid for those votes too by the AEC).

My understanding is that the only way to enter a protest vote, is by placing a line through each candidate and writing "No suitable candidate to represent my will" or the like as a footnote.
I'm seeking confirmation, yet if enough do it, the current mugs are 'sacked' and all new candidates have to be chosen that have not previously sat for election.
Please ring and confirm with the AEC though and if wrong, ask them for formal written literature as to how you can do as such.

The voice of the people is power only when utilised effectively in unison!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As much as I enjoy motor racing or did when production cars used to race around tracks, Sydney's land is way too valuable these days to have the luxury of motor racing circuits with in the suburbs.
The only choice is to move way out... say in the Southern Highlands where land is a little more available and not built up for resident population.

It's an interesting concept you raise about your vote not going to any party because you consider them all unworthy. However I do believe you are in the extreme minority in that regard.

Mike.
  doridori Chief Commissioner

As much as I enjoy motor racing or did when production cars used to race around tracks, Sydney's land is way too valuable these days to have the luxury of motor racing circuits with in the suburbs.
The only choice is to move way out... say in the Southern Highlands where land is a little more available and not built up for resident population.

It's an interesting concept you raise about your vote not going to any party because you consider them all unworthy. However I do believe you are in the extreme minority in that regard.

Mike.
The Vinelander
The land value dictates a lot of policy sadly.
If we utilised value beyond financial, we would assess the value of areas for hoons and kids to speed off the streets.
We would appreciate that in a modern metropolitan area, there are no brick pits, or grass fields of dirt paddocks for newly licensed kids to be absolute douches and at the same time, learn basic vehicle control in an environment removed from public roads.
We would ask what the financial cost of medical, insurance and ultimately, innocent lives would be worth.
Of which the last being far harder to place a firm figure upon to a greater society, particularly if someone close to you.

This problem is not black and white, which is why there is no simple solution and compromise is required.
Yet that attitude is sorely lacking today and this is reflected in the absolute trash that is regurgitated as political policy by people that are not good enough for the private sector, thus seeking public sector employment!
A pity that we collectively lament the lack of quality in representation we receive, yet fail to collectively boot them all out!
Then and only then would they receive the message that the people ultimately hold the power and will wield it as required.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
"Would you prefer the government to be privatised and run by the corporate sector? "  Transtopic

Wwweeelllll ummm yeah Laughing
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

At the end of the day, I look at one location and it says all I need to make a decision.
Oran Park.

It was a historical race track, that was still regularly utilised in a modern era.
It was demolished under the promise of a replacement and improved local services.
There is NO replacement race track.
This leaves an entire sporting industry stuck with one race track in Sydney, when there was approximately 10 in this generation!
The school being built there is still yet to formally start beyond turning of the first sod and it was supposed to be completed before my Nieces started school. They are in high school now!
doridori

This is happening everywhere.  

In fact, the First O'Farrel Gvt campaigned on a platform of better infrastructure spending.

And while spending has increased with NSW's population in a time of burgeoning stamp duty revenues, infrastructure delivery has not.  

IMHO the Libs are *way* too disproportionately influenced by their corporate/business campaign financiers, and this is reflected in the way infrastructure funding has been directed: to projects like WestConnex.

I think there is more than just party politics at play here, and we do have a systemic problem with infrastructure planning.  It's been way too "top down" for a long time, with the bureaucracy becoming increasingly politicised: more inclined to tell the politicians what they want rather than need to hear.

But I also think 4 year fixed terms has proven a failure.  it was supposed to aid in "long term" project delivery, but infrastructure projects now take exact multiples of 4 years, usually 8,  to deliver, when they could and should be done faster.  

Further, it leaves politicians with no hope of re-election in power for way too long, and that is a recipe for corruption.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

...

It was demolished under the promise of a replacement and improved local services.
There is NO replacement race track.

This leaves an entire sporting industry stuck with one race track in Sydney, when there was approximately 10 in this generation!

The school being built there is still yet to formally start beyond turning of the first sod and it was supposed to be completed before my Nieces started school. They are in high school now!

This is happening everywhere.  
djf01

And right on cue, this appears in my twitter feed:
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

This is happening everywhere.  

In fact, the First O'Farrel Gvt campaigned on a platform of better infrastructure spending.

And while spending has increased with NSW's population in a time of burgeoning stamp duty revenues, infrastructure delivery has not.  

IMHO the Libs are *way* too disproportionately influenced by their corporate/business campaign financiers, and this is reflected in the way infrastructure funding has been directed: to projects like WestConnex.

I think there is more than just party politics at play here, and we do have a systemic problem with infrastructure planning.  It's been way too "top down" for a long time, with the bureaucracy becoming increasingly politicised: more inclined to tell the politicians what they want rather than need to hear.

But I also think 4 year fixed terms has proven a failure.  it was supposed to aid in "long term" project delivery, but infrastructure projects now take exact multiples of 4 years, usually 8,  to deliver, when they could and should be done faster.  

Further, it leaves politicians with no hope of re-election in power for way too long, and that is a recipe for corruption.
djf01
Umm, I don't see any evidence of non-fixed term govts with poor ratings rushing to the polls when they know they will loose.

I would love to see your definition of infrastructure delivery compared to what is currently happening.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Umm, I don't see any evidence of non-fixed term govts with poor ratings rushing to the polls when they know they will loose.
RTT_Rules

Never said there was.  

But there are plenty examples of Governments (perceived to be) doing a good job extending their mandate mid-term.

I think this is a preferable advantage of incumbency, as it allows an extended mandate/period of government for a competent one, while limiting the damage of an incompetent one.

It also means politicians in a failing government have a realistic prospect of returning to government sometime during their careers (for better or worse), and have at least some motivation to do the right thing by their electors and not just themselves.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

At the end of the day, I look at one location and it says all I need to make a decision.
Oran Park.

It was a historical race track, that was still regularly utilised in a modern era.
It was demolished under the promise of a replacement and improved local services.
There is NO replacement race track.
This leaves an entire sporting industry stuck with one race track in Sydney, when there was approximately 10 in this generation!
The school being built there is still yet to formally start beyond turning of the first sod and it was supposed to be completed before my Nieces started school. They are in high school now!
I don't think they even have a rail line to it either.

Both major parties are pathetic, short-sighted, arrogant, self-serving fools, and us more so for continuing to vote for them.

I have contacted the AEC, asking how I formally lodge an informal/protest vote, without the vote going to the party that currently holds the seat (oh yeah, all those funny idea's for informal votes, they go to the person that currently holds the seat, and yes, they get paid for those votes too by the AEC).

My understanding is that the only way to enter a protest vote, is by placing a line through each candidate and writing "No suitable candidate to represent my will" or the like as a footnote.
I'm seeking confirmation, yet if enough do it, the current mugs are 'sacked' and all new candidates have to be chosen that have not previously sat for election.
Please ring and confirm with the AEC though and if wrong, ask them for formal written literature as to how you can do as such.

The voice of the people is power only when utilised effectively in unison!
doridori

Oran Park was a private raceway and there was never any promise of a replacement what so ever from either side of politics and why should there. He was in discussion but where could you put a new raceway in south western Sydney that isn't going to become housing in the next 50 years.

Sydney motorsport park has been upgraded to cover the loss of Oran Park with a secondary pit complex and the ability to divide the track in to 3 parts. Motorsport is not that popular in Sydney outside of the western Suburbs and so Sydney motorsport park is perfectly situated for providing all the needs of Motorsport in Sydney.

The school at oran park you talk about is under construction and due for opening in 2020. It's not like there hasn't been alternatives in the mean time. https://www.oranparktown.com.au/why-oran-park/education/. It is also a point to those who think that the current government isn't spending money on schools.

As for those who think the libs are wasting money on allianz stadium. Imagine how much money labor will waste in toll rebates just to make people vote for them. Transurban made roughly $2 billion in 2017. With m4 east and the m5 easts becoming toll roads in 2019 and 2020 imagine how much more they would earn and how much money this would require labor to fork out in rebates compared to the $2 billion for 3 stadiums. The stadium deal looks pretty decent in comparison.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Also I might add that Sydney motorsport park has a free gathering for l platers and their parents. https://www.sydneymotorsportpark.com.au/event/nightdrive-learner-driver-experience/
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I would love to see your definition of infrastructure delivery compared to what is currently happening.
RTT_Rules

I think if you still lived in NSW you'd understand exactly what I'm talking about.  You can see the impact of rapid population growth everywhere on the infrastructure's ability to cope.

ATM Big ticket, high profile, vote winning, (more typically) campaign donation winning projects are referenced over basic infrastructure for which there are few advocates, like parks and swimming pools.

@Sims, I'm unfamiliar with the specific of Oran Park, but my understanding is the usual MO is to clear both local government and state government approvals, the developer makes certain undertakings: like building roads, parks, pools etc.  Sometimes this is done.  More typically a token effort is made to help sell the blocks, but by the time the place is subdivided up and sold off it's simply not done at all - and no-one is responsible to enforce completion.
  ALCo44 Junior Train Controller

Location: Katoomba, NSW
I have contacted the AEC, asking how I formally lodge an informal/protest vote, without the vote going to the party that currently holds the seat (oh yeah, all those funny idea's for informal votes, they go to the person that currently holds the seat, and yes, they get paid for those votes too by the AEC).
doridori

No, they don't.

Informal votes (i.e. those where the voter doesn't indicate any clear preference of the candidates) don't get counted towards the incumbent, they are simply discarded from the count and play no part at all. Candidates/parties receive public election funding for each formal first preference vote that they receive. In NSW state elections (the system I'm most familiar with), this ranges between $3 and $4.50 depending upon whether they're contesting the lower or upper house and whether they're running for a party or an independent, and is only paid if the candidate/party receives at least 4% of the vote.

Basically, if you don't put a number next to a candidate's name, they're not getting your vote, and if it's not a number '1' nor will they receive your $3.00/$4.00/$4.50.

Plenty of sources online, including:
https://elections.nsw.gov.au/Funding-and-disclosure/Public-funding/Election-Campaigns-Fund

My understanding is that the only way to enter a protest vote, is by placing a line through each candidate and writing "No suitable candidate to represent my will" or the like as a footnote.
I'm seeking confirmation, yet if enough do it, the current mugs are 'sacked' and all new candidates have to be chosen that have not previously sat for election.
Please ring and confirm with the AEC though and if wrong, ask them for formal written literature as to how you can do as such.
doridori
As far as I'm aware, Australia (at least at the state and federal level) has no 'none of the above' mechanism whatsoever.

By the way, federal elections are conducted by the AEC, but NSW state elections are run by the NSWEC (a separate entity, and some significant differences in rules and procedures apply, although overall the electoral systems are very similar).
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

The best way to send the major parties a message of no confidence is to seek an alternative candidate or put yourself forward... That is the best protest vote.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/the-vegetarian-cattle-farmer-roy-butler-on-track-to-make-history-in-nsw-election/news-story/c6816ab6abfd8bba62208aeac11c0536
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

Slight change of topic:

The thriving metropolis of Millthorpe (between Blayney and Orange) had its railway station re-opened for business yesterday.
There was even a community open day to celebrate.

No doubt that will be a major factor in the electorate of Orange, currently held by the Shooters party!

The good folk of Millthorpe can new get XPT services to both Sydney and Orange, and can rejoice in being connected again to the big wide world.


There is a nice photo of how the platform addition looks on the NSW TrainLink home page (this platform alteration was necessary, as the line had been slewed away in the years since Millthorpe originally lost its service).

https://transportnsw.info/news/2019



Has anyone else noticed that after decades of there being a default 'no' to any community request for extra regional services, the past little while seems to have seen a substantial reversal in this attitude.
Recently we have had mid-week Griffith services announced, a second daily Bathurst train planned, extra trains for Singleton also being planned, the increase in weekend Blue Mountains trains etc.
The upcoming state election aside, I wonder if this marks some sort of change in attitude at the highest levels, to at least try and make things happen rather than the default option of 'it can't be done'.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

If the line had been slewed away, why wasn't it restored adjacent to the original platform? Was it based on cost or some technical reason?

I am guessing the extension made it easier to get the service restored, than it otherwise could have.

It would be great if minor parties or independents made such an outcome part of their own election "platforms".
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

It's despicable that the NSW Liberals have sought to cynically wedge Labor over gun control laws because the tragic events in Christchurch.  This is not the time to delve into gutter politics.  Dragging up that dinosaur John Howard, who is yesterday's man,  just shows how out of touch they are, although I'll give him credit for reforming the gun laws.  But we've now moved on.  It's not very smart politics and could come back to bite them on Saturday.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Transtopic But we've now moved on. It's not very smart politics and could come back to bite them on Saturday.

Speaking of...

We need predictions about Saturday...who is going to stick their neck out and make a prediction.

Mike.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Hung parliament... Better ask the independents...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

well daley has just made some more stupid statements and so anything can happen. I still have no idea and I don't really think anybody does even if some people on here have strong personal opinions about there dislike of the liberals.

My theory is that independents will do well and the shooters will do bad especially after what happened in NZ last weekend. Greens are going to get absolutely clobbered in this election as they are being seen as a nothing party.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Prediction? Politicians or would-be pollies salivating at the idea of getting their snouts in the trough.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Nevertheless we should be grateful we live in a constitutional democracy and not a dictatorship, like many other countries are

Mike
  mcs Beginner




Has anyone else noticed that after decades of there being a default 'no' to any community request for extra regional services, the past little while seems to have seen a substantial reversal in this attitude.
Recently we have had mid-week Griffith services announced, a second daily Bathurst train planned, extra trains for Singleton also being planned, the increase in weekend Blue Mountains trains etc.
The upcoming state election aside, I wonder if this marks some sort of change in attitude at the highest levels, to at least try and make things happen rather than the default option of 'it can't be done'.


craigfitz1
I strongly doubt it. Mainly electioneering to try and shore up some votes - especially in the seat of Orange, which the nats are desperate to try and win back (but probably not much chance). What is frustrating is how ad hoc it all is - Millthorpe gets a shedload of $$$ to reopen it, even though I expect demand is likely to truly be minimal, yet other regional villages can't even get a look in, even when costs to make 'on demand' stops would be much lower.

I'm truly surprised the second 'daily Bathurst train' hasn't been extended to start earlier at Orange.
  mcs Beginner

More broadly, I think a hung parliament is a very good chance, though as simstrain suggests there is a lot of factors interacting in the space of minor parties/independents/greens that could make it hard to predict. I expect the government to be returned narrowly, but hard to judge and anything could happen if it is a hung parliament.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
If the line had been slewed away, why wasn't it restored adjacent to the original platform? Was it based on cost or some technical reason?

I am guessing the extension made it easier to get the service restored, than it otherwise could have.

It would be great if minor parties or independents made such an outcome part of their own election "platforms".
ANR
Cost of moving half a km or more of railway line
(and fixing what ever issues there are with the platform to have a train next to it these days)

VS

Cost of building basically a wooden bridge for a trial?

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: