SAR 800 class loco paint colours

 
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
SDS models have announced a welcome 800DE class
http://www.sdsmodels.com.au/800order.pdf

However the thing that strikes me the most is that someone presumably put in enough time to determine a range of paint schemes, but none of that information is included on the order form or elsewhere that I can find on the site.

I painted the BGB kit I built years ago traffic yellow with a Maroon roof, but I’m not having any luck finding when they were Tangerine, yellow with a grey roof or any of the other options. The ANR colors are a little easier due to the increased number of contemporary color photos.

Can anyone here fill in some details for future reference? Smile

Sponsored advertisement

  allan Chief Commissioner

[...] The Tangerine on 806-809 was significantly darker than that on the earlier locomotives.[...]

[...] In 1966, 804 was repainted into “Mustard Pot”. All of the other 800s followed, but the program may not have been completed until the early 1970s. The silver tops were repainted Regal Red, the waistband was carried over the doors, and the bogies were black.[...]
allanallan
Hi all,

I have been looking at this thread with renewed interest, now that the SDS Models engine has become available. I would like to buy one for my collection in a version that is fitting for the late 1950s and first half of the 1960s. Looking at Allan's informative post above, did SDS Models make the grade when it comes to depicting the difference in tangerine tone between the 800 - 805 and 806 - 809 respectively?
And secondly, if 804 was the first one of the series to be painted in "Mustard Pot" colours in 1966, everything before then would have been Tangerine. So if I want a pre-1966 engine, it would have to be SDS no. 001 or 002, is that right?

BTW, how's the quality of the model anyway?

Thank you kindly,

Rocko
  Big Mikado Beginner

Location: South Oz
Allan is correct regarding 807. She was the only one never painted in AN corporate colours, and also the only one to never receive the marker light and shunt step mods (checker plate steps cut out and replaced with safer expanded mesh steps). The MU plugs were also removed at the same time whilst these mods were being done (all except 807 I think).

From what I recall 807 ended her days in the pale yellow scheme with black ANR logos on each hood. Unfortunately I was giving her an "A" service at Mile End Diesel Depot (circa 1988-89, can't recall exactly!) and pointed out to my boss that the engine block was in need of attention. The top half of the block had come slightly loose and was bouncing against the sump section when revved up, resulting in very serious oil leaks. My boss went back into the office to make a call and come back to say shut her down and box her up. She was to be stored and subsequently scrapped. Thus becoming the first 800 withdrawn from service.

Later at Islington a group of NRM members were given permission to cut off the handrails (complete with marker lights) and strip other parts for later use on another 800 to be preserved, which eventually became 801.

Of course 800 became 810 when the new AN computer system couldn't handle the same number in the "class" and "number" fields. I also vaguely recall 806 and 809 swapping numbers at Islington when I was an apprentice in the Erecting Shop, which would have been about 1985. I know one of them had thrown a rod and was having major surgery to her block, but as to why they had to change numbers, I'm not sure. Maybe someone else can help out here?

The cab side numbers are also worth mentioning too. All the locos were fitted with chromed brass numbers when built. This remained the same until the AN period. Some locos kept their chromed numbers (807 definitely did), some had their metal numbers painted AN yellow, some lost their metal numbers and had the number painted directly on the cab sides in AN corporate font. I think it was 802 had her metal numbers sand blasted to remove the chrome and ran with just plain brass finish, never polished.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

One does hope though that the models come with both types of cowcatcher on them. Let me explain further the original cowcatchers on them had a pointed front on the like a SAR Webb or later steam locomotive had the same was used both ends, when 800 was delivered there was no problems as it could not MU with any other diesel, however when 801 was delivered it was then worked out that 2 800 class diesels could be used in MU on certain trains and thus save having to use a steam loco. Well went well till they went to couple the two locomotives together, they could not do it though as the point on the cowcatchers hit but the knuckle couplers would not meet to couple them together. This was not a problem at EE as they were tested singly in full operation rather than using two together, and some tests like MU compatability may have been done at EE without the cow catchers fitted to them. So they got ticked off as being OK. This cowcatcher problem was only found after delivery of the first few from memory and a modification to the cow catcher on them to make it flat solved the problem.

So if you model the early 1950's and want two to represent just delivered 800's you might need the original cwcatcher on rather than the later modified ones. I am not sure whether the SAR altered them as they were delivered or EE modified them in later production though. I would assume that under the warranty from EE that EE had to pay for the modification to be done though.

Here is a early photo of a 800 showing the original cowcatcher and the early paint scheme on them. The photo is a Reece Jennings photo.

  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

A later photo of one showing the flat cow catcher later applied to all units. A George Rogers photo.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

800 at EE works at Rocklea in Queensland. Photographer unkown.



802 at Rocklea. Photographer unkown.

  allan Chief Commissioner

By the book (see above), the pilots were modified between 1964 and 1966. I've not seen any photos of locos with the old pilot painted in the Mustard Pot colour scheme.
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
Much obliged!  Always fascinating the photos that show up for the odd question like this Smile
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
807 at Gillman in May 1987

https://flic.kr/p/pxpZZn
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

807 at Gillman in May 1987

https://flic.kr/p/pxpZZn
bingley hall
Sure look like some the Baldwin switcher designs used in the USA just before Baldwin diesel manufacture folded.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

807 at Gillman in May 1987

https://flic.kr/p/pxpZZn
Sure look like some the Baldwin switcher designs used in the USA just before Baldwin diesel manufacture folded.
nswtrains
I was in North America in 76/77 and although I saw some exotic locos (GG1's, FM's, Centennials, Alco Centurys and Gas Turbines) I never saw a Baldwin.  However I am aware that Baldwins had the same Electrical Control System (96 volt rather than 64) and air controls for MU rather than a mix of air and electric systems.

Also I have heard some US Railfans comment that EE's in England sounded like Baldwins - nearly all of the English Electric locos in the UK sound like 800's and QR/WAGR/TR/NZR EE types.Wonder if the Diesel Engine was of the same design?

Regards

Trevor
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

This would be about as close to a 800 as Baldwin got and might actually have been what the 800's were designed off, of.

  Rocko's Modern Life Station Staff

[...] The Tangerine on 806-809 was significantly darker than that on the earlier locomotives.[...]

[...] In 1966, 804 was repainted into “Mustard Pot”. All of the other 800s followed, but the program may not have been completed until the early 1970s. The silver tops were repainted Regal Red, the waistband was carried over the doors, and the bogies were black.[...] allan
Hi all,

I have been looking at this thread with renewed interest, now that the SDS Models engine has become available. I would like to buy one for my collection in a version that is fitting for the late 1950s and first half of the 1960s. Looking at Allan's informative post above, did SDS Models make the grade when it comes to depicting the difference in tangerine tone between the 800 - 805 and 806 - 809 respectively?
And secondly, if 804 was the first one of the series to be painted in "Mustard Pot" colours in 1966, everything before then would have been Tangerine. So if I want a pre-1966 engine, it would have to be SDS no. 001 or 002, is that right?

BTW, how's the quality of the model anyway?

Thank you kindly,

Rocko
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

The quality of the model is excellent it is a bit on the light side though but you can easily add some weight into it mine are DC but the DCC ones might be a bit different to add some weight into them, I added some pieces of metal on top of the motor and under the circuit board and used some insulation tape on the top to stop shorts and I added a smaller piece up on top of the circuit board again insulated to stop shorts, couplers are the right height, take out both coupler boxes and the mech comes out easily. Body mounted marker lights work but the ones on the handrails each end do not work as these handrails are plastic. One minor problem that is easily fixed with some super glue is the handrails at each end are a bit flimsy as they come and the reason is the centre hand rail upright's are not glued in to the underframe so a very small drop of super glue on each of these makes it a lot stronger and less prone to be damaged. But all up a very nice locomotive for those SAR modellers amongst us.  I have seven of the SDS 800's and two of the old BGB kit 800's but the SDS model makes the kits look very lacking in depth of detail etc now.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

807 at Gillman in May 1987

https://flic.kr/p/pxpZZn
Sure look like some the Baldwin switcher designs used in the USA just before Baldwin diesel manufacture folded.
I was in North America in 76/77 and although I saw some exotic locos (GG1's, FM's, Centennials, Alco Centurys and Gas Turbines) I never saw a Baldwin.  However I am aware that Baldwins had the same Electrical Control System (96 volt rather than 64) and air controls for MU rather than a mix of air and electric systems.

Also I have heard some US Railfans comment that EE's in England sounded like Baldwins - nearly all of the English Electric locos in the UK sound like 800's and QR/WAGR/TR/NZR EE types.Wonder if the Diesel Engine was of the same design?

Regards

Trevor
xdford
Trevor, look up Thumpers in the UK Southern Region DEMUs.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Trevor, look up Thumpers in the UK Southern Region DEMUs.
stea

Thanks for the link -- Those railcars have the same motor as an SAR 500 class diesel.  I like 500's but the motors on those did rattle and thump a bit.  Despite that EE thought the SAR design good enough that they wanted to make the design its standard shunter and it was probably only the push towards higher horsepower/bigger loads and the reduction in shunting with unitary container trains that would have made the idea short lived.

Cheers

Trevor
  aussie48 Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Trevor, look up Thumpers in the UK Southern Region DEMUs.

Thanks for the link -- Those railcars have the same motor as an SAR 500 class diesel.  I like 500's but the motors on those did rattle and thump a bit.  Despite that EE thought the SAR design good enough that they wanted to make the design its standard shunter and it was probably only the push towards higher horsepower/bigger loads and the reduction in shunting with unitary container trains that would have made the idea short lived.

Cheers

Trevor
xdford
Trevor I think if you bother to look, the SAR 800 Class are modelled of the EE Standard Export Model, as far as I know TGR Y Class were the only ones not built by at an EE factory.
  Rocko's Modern Life Station Staff

The quality of the model is excellent it is a bit on the light side though but you can easily add some weight into it mine are DC but the DCC ones might be a bit different to add some weight into them, I added some pieces of metal on top of the motor and under the circuit board and used some insulation tape on the top to stop shorts and I added a smaller piece up on top of the circuit board again insulated to stop shorts, couplers are the right height, take out both coupler boxes and the mech comes out easily. Body mounted marker lights work but the ones on the handrails each end do not work as these handrails are plastic. One minor problem that is easily fixed with some super glue is the handrails at each end are a bit flimsy as they come and the reason is the centre hand rail upright's are not glued in to the underframe so a very small drop of super glue on each of these makes it a lot stronger and less prone to be damaged. But all up a very nice locomotive for those SAR modellers amongst us.  I have seven of the SDS 800's and two of the old BGB kit 800's but the SDS model makes the kits look very lacking in depth of detail etc now.
DJPeters
Cheers, DJ, sounds like a model to get. Can't wait!

Rocko

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Rocko's Modern Life

Display from: