2019 Federal Election Thread

 
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Billy Bob Shorten's grand vision involving EVs needs to look at the long distances to get between dots on the Australian map.

Hiluxes with petrol and diesel motors are an intractable part of our culture and way of life. An EV may get you from A to B in Japan, Norway or France, but a diesel Hilux will get you from A to Z in Australia.

Unless little green men from Mars land somewhere out the back of Boulia and sell us a technology that allows us to do what Shorten is suggesting, we will be visiting the petrol or diesel pump for a long time to come.
Is it a typically conservative voter flaw that makes you think that EV will be compulsory???
Unless the price of an EV is going to drop by half or the price of fuel going to double how is BShorten going to get anywhere near his dream of 50%?   That or there will be subsidies (more government money given away) to achieve unrealistic targets.
Donald, my earlier post of Kristina Kenneally's youtube proved the Liberals’ Electric Car Dysfunction, including proof of Joshua Frydenberg's previous **very public** support for electric vehicles, so destroyed your earlier statement that the take up of EVs outside of the Brunswick/Northcote bubble (and equivalent suburbs in other states) will be a lot less than even 30%

Kenneally's youtube used damaging pictures of some Liberal Minister for Energy called Angus Taylor who told us in October 2018 that electric cars can charge in about 8 minutes, plus that the Liberals would help with the funding of those charging stations, plus other pictures and dates for the non believers. Bill Shorten is in the background almost rolling around on the ground laughing at the ineptitude of Morrison, Frydenberg and Taylor having liberal words dished up back at the liberals.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1198241780353195
petan
Just because Josh F supports EVs does not mean that the take up outside the green suburbs will be substantial.   That does not "destroy" my comment.
I never said that the Libs are not as barking mad as BS if they are subsidising charge stations etc. and pushing just as unrealistic targets.
If EVs are the answer to the world's problems they should be selling like crazy and subsidies wouldn't be needed.   Sounds very familiar to all "renewable energy" schemes.
I just want to know who will be able to afford the new batteries in these vehicles every 5 - 7 years or is that the time to trade them in so us poor people can consider owning an EV.

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  ANR Assistant Commissioner

If the horse and cart was still around, I would probably use it. It is environmentally friendly. I don't need several hours to charge my horse, and my mobile phone doesn't fully charge in 8 mins so why would I expect this from an EV.

I think the ALP has put the cart before the horse. Fix up the woeful state of energy policy, they will need to grow a spine.  Once we have the grid and market working properly, and we have an ample supply of renewable energy, we can go out and buy our EVs and charge them.

In the meantime, I will continue to use my crew cab ute. It is fast, reliable, efficient and can do extremely long distances. I can't foresee anything that will replace this, except a horse and cart.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
If the horse and cart was still around, I would probably use it.
...
In the meantime, I will continue to use my crew cab ute. It is fast, reliable, efficient and can do extremely long distances. I can't foresee anything that will replace this, except a horse and cart.
ANR
Last I checked there were still horses and carts around, time to trade in the ute!
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I think the future will have to be more Public transit options for us plebs, small EVs for the rich, large EVs and commercial vehicles for short-distance haulage and tradies, and intermodal rail for long-distance and bulk freight.  Tesla are delaying/abandoning the intro of their long-distance EV truck because it simply doesn't stack up.  But most governments and people are still fixated on building roads.

An interesting report on the sales success of an EV truck company in the LaTrobe Valley (350 km range vehicles):
https://reneweconomy.com.au/latrobe-valley-electric-truck-maker-gets-multiple-orders-from-us-81577/
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I think the future will have to be more Public transit options for us plebs
Carnot
Realistically this country now has less public transit options on a per capita basis than in past decades. This is particularly the case outside of capital cities.

Can we really expect that someone who has retired from their farm to town can expect public transit to visit the family on the farm (or vice versa)? The diesel ute will be alive and well for a long time to came!
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I think the future will have to be more Public transit options for us plebs
Realistically this country now has less public transit options on a per capita basis than in past decades. This is particularly the case outside of capital cities.

Can we really expect that someone who has retired from their farm to town can expect public transit to visit the family on the farm (or vice versa)? The diesel ute will be alive and well for a long time to came!
Graham4405
Alive for a while yet.  Then again (from the same company who brought us asbestos infected utes 10 years ago):
https://www.drive.com.au/news/great-wall-shows-off-new-ute-121098
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Billy Bob Shorten's grand vision involving EVs needs to look at the long distances to get between dots on the Australian map.

Hiluxes with petrol and diesel motors are an intractable part of our culture and way of life. An EV may get you from A to B in Japan, Norway or France, but a diesel Hilux will get you from A to Z in Australia.

Unless little green men from Mars land somewhere out the back of Boulia and sell us a technology that allows us to do what Shorten is suggesting, we will be visiting the petrol or diesel pump for a long time to come.
ANR
Dear, dear Rolling Eyes

Fast forward to 2030 and half of all new vehicles sold will probably be electric in any case.
Drag those knuckles slowly to 2030 and half of new vehicles sold don't have to be electric regardless.
And this is new cars. The majority of cars out there aren't new either!!!

Most cars are sold to people who inhabit cities and commute. Most will never go bush and only leave the burbs to make up those FBT kilometres.

Technology will continue to evolve. 15 years ago the diesel car/family suv was relatively rare and so were diesel bowsers. Euro 4 diesels came along and those cleaner more efficient engines became an option from most manufactures except those located here. Now most bowsers have diesel. Change happens.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
In the meantime, I will continue to use my crew cab ute. It is fast, reliable, efficient and can do extremely long distances. I can't foresee anything that will replace this, except a horse and cart.
ANR
You must be so proud.

Australia burns through 1,100,000 barrels of oil per day, of which only 350,000 barrels are produced locally.  This represents an import bill of around A$30 billion per annum, most of our imported oil arriving as refined products.

But that's Bill's fault as well Razz
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

To be fair to Billy Bob Shorten, he did advocate for a strategic reserve of fuel a few weeks ago which is a sound idea. The country could have a paralysis in the event of a fuel supply problem.

However, this whole electric thing is a farce... It does remind me of cash for clunkers. When I read the transcript below, I find it highly entertaining and from the arguments of both sides.

However, the affordability in energy is not there, the technology is not affordable, and no government no matter what their persuasion can make it affordable.

The immortal words of the great RJL Hawke once were: "by 1990, ...."

...yeah, whatever... Even if it did come from the Messiah, himself...

https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/electric/11003526
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I think the future will have to be more Public transit options for us plebs
Realistically this country now has less public transit options on a per capita basis than in past decades. This is particularly the case outside of capital cities.

Can we really expect that someone who has retired from their farm to town can expect public transit to visit the family on the farm (or vice versa)? The diesel ute will be alive and well for a long time to came!
Graham4405
I would have said there is more PT as the capital cities commuter services are progressively pushed out and commuter bus is introduced and expanded into more regional centres.

Yes we have lost longer haul bus and some rail, but these are mostly linked to population decline along those corridors and yes car transport becomes just to cheap and convenient.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Billy Bob Shorten's grand vision involving EVs needs to look at the long distances to get between dots on the Australian map.

Hiluxes with petrol and diesel motors are an intractable part of our culture and way of life. An EV may get you from A to B in Japan, Norway or France, but a diesel Hilux will get you from A to Z in Australia.

Unless little green men from Mars land somewhere out the back of Boulia and sell us a technology that allows us to do what Shorten is suggesting, we will be visiting the petrol or diesel pump for a long time to come.
Dear, dear Rolling Eyes

Fast forward to 2030 and half of all new vehicles sold will probably be electric in any case.
Drag those knuckles slowly to 2030 and half of new vehicles sold don't have to be electric regardless.
And this is new cars. The majority of cars out there aren't new either!!!

Most cars are sold to people who inhabit cities and commute. Most will never go bush and only leave the burbs to make up those FBT kilometres.

Technology will continue to evolve. 15 years ago the diesel car/family suv was relatively rare and so were diesel bowsers. Euro 4 diesels came along and those cleaner more efficient engines became an option from most manufactures except those located here. Now most bowsers have diesel. Change happens.
Groundrelay
Assuming the EV % of new cars does achieve  50% by 2030, that still means that there will be around 750,000 cars per year that are not EV along with the fleet of nearly 10m vehicles that are not EV on the roads. ...and even if they can achieve 50% of new car sales within 12 years, the following 12 years will unlikely see the remaining 50% be all converted to EV sales unless the technology has caught up. Of course this assumes no other technology such as H2 stands up to replace ICE.

I have no doubt Australia could achieve 50% EV's by 2030 to 2035 if the right environment is put in place. Issues such as charging stations are only a minor issue that is easily resolved. Billy's biggest challenge will dealing with power prices and power availability.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Billy Bob Shorten's grand vision involving EVs needs to look at the long distances to get between dots on the Australian map.

Hiluxes with petrol and diesel motors are an intractable part of our culture and way of life. An EV may get you from A to B in Japan, Norway or France, but a diesel Hilux will get you from A to Z in Australia.

Unless little green men from Mars land somewhere out the back of Boulia and sell us a technology that allows us to do what Shorten is suggesting, we will be visiting the petrol or diesel pump for a long time to come.
Dear, dear Rolling Eyes

Fast forward to 2030 and half of all new vehicles sold will probably be electric in any case.
Drag those knuckles slowly to 2030 and half of new vehicles sold don't have to be electric regardless.
And this is new cars. The majority of cars out there aren't new either!!!

Most cars are sold to people who inhabit cities and commute. Most will never go bush and only leave the burbs to make up those FBT kilometres.

Technology will continue to evolve. 15 years ago the diesel car/family suv was relatively rare and so were diesel bowsers. Euro 4 diesels came along and those cleaner more efficient engines became an option from most manufactures except those located here. Now most bowsers have diesel. Change happens.
Assuming the EV % of new cars does achieve  50% by 2030, that still means that there will be around 750,000 cars per year that are not EV along with the fleet of nearly 10m vehicles that are not EV on the roads. ...and even if they can achieve 50% of new car sales within 12 years, the following 12 years will unlikely see the remaining 50% be all converted to EV sales unless the technology has caught up. Of course this assumes no other technology such as H2 stands up to replace ICE.

I have no doubt Australia could achieve 50% EV's by 2030 to 2035 if the right environment is put in place. Issues such as charging stations are only a minor issue that is easily resolved. Billy's biggest challenge will dealing with power prices and power availability.
RTT_Rules
BS could build a nuclear power station or two to run all the electric cars ...
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Potential here for militant unions to have a negative impact on the ALP's chances of picking up votes in Vic, similar to the damage inflicted on Bill S at the 2016 election with the UFU vs. CFA debacle at the time:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/cfmeu-pressures-andrews-government-over-police-dispute-20190416-p51et3.html
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Pauline Hanson's One Nation has my vote in the senate - her senate candidate for South Australia Jennifer Game says that we will be getting a new high efficiency coal fired power station to lower prices for South Australians if they have their way - ABC:

A tax officer for 20 years, Ms Game said she wanted jobs in regional SA and multi-national tax reform on the national agenda.

She also said the media had exaggerated the threat of climate change and she was supportive of Pauline Hanson's calls for a new coal-fired power station in South Australia.

"I am very supportive of a -efficiency, low-emission coal-fire power station being built here in South Australia," Ms Game said.

"It will bring reliability to the grid, which we don't have. It will lower power prices and it will allow our desalination plant to run 24 hours a day."

That was all I needed to know for them to win my vote - we have the highest domestic electricity charges in the world here in SA; anyone who wants to build a nice big coal-fired power plant to bring retail prices down and perhaps try and attract some industry to South Australia (what a novel idea!) gets my vote, full-stop.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Pauline Hanson's One Nation has my vote in the senate - her senate candidate for South Australia Jennifer Game says that we will be getting a new high efficiency coal fired power station to lower prices for South Australians if they have their way - ABC:

A tax officer for 20 years, Ms Game said she wanted jobs in regional SA and multi-national tax reform on the national agenda.

She also said the media had exaggerated the threat of climate change and she was supportive of Pauline Hanson's calls for a new coal-fired power station in South Australia.

"I am very supportive of a -efficiency, low-emission coal-fire power station being built here in South Australia," Ms Game said.

"It will bring reliability to the grid, which we don't have. It will lower power prices and it will allow our desalination plant to run 24 hours a day."

That was all I needed to know for them to win my vote - we have the highest domestic electricity charges in the world here in SA; anyone who wants to build a nice big coal-fired power plant to bring retail prices down and perhaps try and attract some industry to South Australia (what a novel idea!) gets my vote, full-stop.
don_dunstan
Typical Sacrificing the Planet for $$$$$. Unsurprising from Hanson Mob though If you want to support this utter short sighted stupidity go ahead, My Generation will have to deal with the F@%K ups you have caused. Exaggerated hey? The Weather and farmland says other wise mate.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Typical Sacrificing the Planet for $$$$$. Unsurprising from Hanson Mob though If you want to support this utter short sighted stupidity go ahead, My Generation will have to deal with the F@%K ups you have caused. Exaggerated hey? The Weather and farmland says other wise mate.
Dangersdan707
Cry me a river about the non-proveable carbon pollution theory, it's all a load of rubbish. Where's the catastrophic cyclones all the time? Where's the sea levels over my head? If we stopped emitting any carbon at all overnight it would make less than 0.5% difference to the overall outcome. Get it? We don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

Just wait till you have to pay your very own power bills and you'll think the same as me.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I think the future will have to be more Public transit options for us plebs
Realistically this country now has less public transit options on a per capita basis than in past decades. This is particularly the case outside of capital cities.

Can we really expect that someone who has retired from their farm to town can expect public transit to visit the family on the farm (or vice versa)? The diesel ute will be alive and well for a long time to came!
I would have said there is more PT as the capital cities commuter services are progressively pushed out and commuter bus is introduced and expanded into more regional centres.

Yes we have lost longer haul bus and some rail, but these are mostly linked to population decline along those corridors and yes car transport becomes just to cheap and convenient.
RTT_Rules
The expansion of commuter services beyond an imaginary line that is the urban boundary is not keeping up with the spread of the population into these areas. It also moves the urban boundary imaginary line further out. Beyond that there is very little public transit available in most cases.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

The minor parties will rule the Senate and have a lot of sway in what legislation gets approved and for what in return. That's politics, no matter what anyone thinks of Hanson, Palmer, Katter, and the others....

They will keep putting out their messages and know exactly how to tap into major party voter discontent just like the SFF did in the NSW state election. ONP are putting up a candidate in SA with a platform of dealing with regional development and power supply issues. Watch the SA voters flock to her. It is a no brainer.

By their own doing, the 2 mainstream centrist parties, look like tired, dodgy used car/shonky EV salesmen.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Typical Sacrificing the Planet for $$$$$.
Dangersdan707

I bet you've never paid a power bill in your life. Do you even know what your household kwh and daily charge is? Nah 'ya don't. Because someone else pays it for you, don't they.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I have no doubt that if an area today has little or no public transport, the future might involve a fair bit of creativity in keeping very old cars and trucks running - a bit like Cuba.  But then again the Govt might just introduce bans on such old vehicles.

For the cities car ownership will plummet, and home delivery from a short-range EV will boom.  Just look at the growth of Uber Eats and other similar services.

There is simply no future in coal now that many renewable sources of energy are cheaper.  The transition to new forms of mobility will be far more disruptive.  The big question for Governments is how they manage this, and not leave people and communities at risk behind.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
"Renewable energy" is not cheaper.

If you had to pay fully for your on roof solar panels, they would become profitable about the time it is to replace the panels.

Then the problem of what to do with the expired panels.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

"Renewable energy" is not cheaper.

If you had to pay fully for your on roof solar panels, they would become profitable about the time it is to replace the panels.

Then the problem of what to do with the expired panels.
Donald
Wrong:
https://theconversation.com/new-coal-doesnt-stack-up-just-look-at-queenslands-renewable-energy-numbers-98707

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/new-wind-and-solar-now-as-cheap-as-existing-coal/

5 years ago I would've agreed with you.  But times have changed.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Typical Sacrificing the Planet for $$$$$. Unsurprising from Hanson Mob though If you want to support this utter short sighted stupidity go ahead, My Generation will have to deal with the F@%K ups you have caused. Exaggerated hey? The Weather and farmland says other wise mate.
Cry me a river about the non-proveable carbon pollution theory, it's all a load of rubbish. Where's the catastrophic cyclones all the time? Where's the sea levels over my head? If we stopped emitting any carbon at all overnight it would make less than 0.5% difference to the overall outcome. Get it? We don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

Just wait till you have to pay your very own power bills and you'll think the same as me.
don_dunstan
I now know who Don is. Its Tony Abbott incognito.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Typical Sacrificing the Planet for $$$$$. Unsurprising from Hanson Mob though If you want to support this utter short sighted stupidity go ahead, My Generation will have to deal with the F@%K ups you have caused. Exaggerated hey? The Weather and farmland says other wise mate.
Cry me a river about the non-proveable carbon pollution theory, it's all a load of rubbish. Where's the catastrophic cyclones all the time? Where's the sea levels over my head? If we stopped emitting any carbon at all overnight it would make less than 0.5% difference to the overall outcome. Get it? We don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

Just wait till you have to pay your very own power bills and you'll think the same as me.
don_dunstan
Your Arguments are reinforcing my opinion Don. We can all agree that less pollution is better for the world anyway, wether climate change exists or not and it is good to remember that we only have a finite supply of fossil fuels that shan't last for eternity. don, please stop with this pseudo science, agriculture is all ready being affected in this country with the longer warm periods of the year. there is no doubt about this don. I agree we don't matter in the grand scheme of things because the big business is influencing things behind the scenes constantly as the major parties are on the pay roll of the polluters. (yes I know I sound like a greenie nutjub). I read somewhere that 100 companies are responsible for 70% of global emissions Here it is
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change
Our beloved BHP and Rio Tinto are on that list from the 'communist' Guardian

I disagree, Most people I know are willing to pay higher Power prices for clean energy. Don, Bashing renewables for higher prices is a load of smeg, the main factor is the privatisation of the energy grid has caused this not Renewables, that is a myth.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I disagree, Most people I know are willing to pay higher Power prices for clean energy.
Dangersdan707
So, you don't pay your own power bills by your own admission but you think "most people" would prefer higher power bills if it meant the warm inner glow of saving the planet. Nah, sorry. I'm trying to manage a household, I don't give a damn about imaginary carbon fairy - that's entirely an invention of people like Al Gore, Tim Flannery and the Holmes a'Court family who are all making money off the coal scare campaign.

If privatisation was solely responsible for higher electricity prices then why do the states with the highest uptake of 'renewables' have the highest electricity prices - coincidence?

Sorry Dangersdan but you don't pay your own way - come back to me when you are an adult and your opinion will change. Manage a household, pay a mortgage or rent and pay utilities and then tell me how happy you are to pay the highest electricity charges in the world to banish the evil carbon fairy.

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