Ballarat Line upgrades underway

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 20 Nov 2017 12:49
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just 4 Black Rectangles there bevans. Perhaps you should delete the post in any case as looking at the link shows them to be the same 4 that Gauntlet posted in this thread back on March 19.
mikesyd

Ouch I see what you mean.  I need to find out why.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
reports of delays around Maddlingley works on the Ballarat Line due to track and signalling issues.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

reports of delays around Maddlingley works on the Ballarat Line due to track and signalling issues.
bevans
Surprise Surprise....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is it just possible that if the stabling was to remain at Bacchus Marsh where it is currently, there would not have been a need for Maddingley and therefore the scope of the project would have been less and easier and would then not have led to the delays and additional costs we have now?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Is it just possible that if the stabling was to remain at Bacchus Marsh where it is currently, there would not have been a need for Maddingley and therefore the scope of the project would have been less and easier and would then not have led to the delays and additional costs we have now?
bevans

Sure... but then you couldn’t have had an additional platform road at the Marsh.

Bit silly to say that we should descope projects because things might go wrong...
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner



Btw.. these new stations that are being built and upgraded
Cobblebank and Rockbank.. how come they did not leave space
For 2 extra tracks to go though when Melton eventually becomes
Electric?The extra tracks when quadded beyond Robinsons Rd  Junction to both Black Forest Rd & Melton will be express VLP tracks with no platforms between  Deer Park and  Black Forest Rd &  Melton . ON Wve leg extra tarck pair goes on Up side & on the Melton leg on the Down side .
kuldalai
That would make for a very interesting junction at Robbo Rd, especially if no crossings at grade
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Also why with regard to cobblebank and perhaps rockbank is a centre track not placed into the build allowing for bypassing of trains (overtaking) or has this been completed elsewhere?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Also why with regard to cobblebank and perhaps rockbank is a centre track not placed into the build allowing for bypassing of trains (overtaking) or has this been completed elsewhere?
bevans
Future bypass tracks will be to the Southern side of the existing tracks and platforms.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Until Melton is electrified, there is only really going to be one or two trains per hour in direction between Melton and Deer Park. No point spending millions on extra track now when it can be built just as easily when the line is electrified.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
At Wendouree the first foundations for the new platform have been laid.
The track for the passing loop at Millbrook has been completed (so the video may not be worth watching).
Also, there's been a lot of track laid on the down side of Ballan, and today sleepers were being put down next to the new platform.
About half of the yard at Bacchus Marsh has been ripped up too.


[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/7868/32643066577_32d9eb0fd9_o.jpg[/img]


by Gauntlet, on Flickr




https://youtu.be/XPcd4twahXk



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PJuFjijtY0
  Altona Loopy Station Master

That is the problem with outsourcing work.   You have to rely on the company to have the workers with the required skills.
Doing a job in-house you would know the skillset of your own staff.
Donald

Surely, there is some due diligence involved prior to awarding important contracts? Did they enquire as to the provider's expertise and resources or just pick the cheapest?
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Just by the by.

I did a quick check on Vicsig just now and noticed there were no passing loops between Ballarat and Aarart. This seems odd, given its status as a former mainline to Adelaide. Were there any passing loops there in the past? Should one be created there today?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Just by the by.

I did a quick check on Vicsig just now and noticed there were no passing loops between Ballarat and Aarart. This seems odd, given its status as a former mainline to Adelaide. Were there any passing loops there in the past? Should one be created there today?
Duncs
Yes prior to the 1995  standardization of the Adelaide line there were crossing loops at Burumbeet,  Trawalla , and Beaufort IIRC .  The most useful was a lengthened loop at Trawalla where the earthworks still  remain of the former  #  2 Road ,

On the current line without an intermediate crossing  loop it is possible to run trains as close as 60 minutes in the same direction, or as trains in both directions a two hourly frequency can be run .

The  Wimmera Rail Study (2017)  proposed ultimate standardization of the Ballarat -  Ararat bg line with separate sg and bg tracks between Ballarat & Wendouree with an intermediate loop at Trawalla on the former earthworks .
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Yes prior to the 1995  standardization of the Adelaide line there were crossing loops at Burumbeet,  Trawalla , and Beaufort IIRC .  The most useful was a lengthened loop at Trawalla where the earthworks still  remain of the former  #  2 Road ,
kuldalai
In earlier times - 1964 - there were also loops at Windermere, Middle Creek and Buangor. Only Burrumbeet, Beaufort and Buangor were open continuously. By 1987 Middle Creek had been closed. I'm sure I had timetables (Network Service Plans) for 1990s but they have disappeared.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

By 1990, only Trawalla and Buangor remained as Staff Stations. Buangor was too short to cross unless one train was the pass, but Trawalla was useful at around 600m. They were mostly used as glorified block posts. Beaufort was another place with a loop too short for modern trains, and being fully mechanical signalled was too hard to deal with. Best place for crosses was Warrenheip - Linton Junction (younger readers may not know that was once all double track).

In that era, the long trains either followed each other (evening Down trains, morning Up), with 9169 about lunchtime out of Totty, running via Cressy, so no problems with its length until after Ararat, where those long loops worked well.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
A second platform and loop is being added at Wendouree, which will mean that the single track section is slightly shorter, which should help improve the reliability of a two hour service.

Ararat only has a population of about 9000 in the town itself. Even with the potential for coach connections all around, the current 4.5 return trains a day, and a potential of a two hour frequency should more than do for decades. Far better to invest in fully duplicating between Melton and Wendouree.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A second platform and loop is being added at Wendouree, which will mean that the single track section is slightly shorter, which should help improve the reliability of a two hour service.

Ararat only has a population of about 9000 in the town itself. Even with the potential for coach connections all around, the current 4.5 return trains a day, and a potential of a two hour frequency should more than do for decades. Far better to invest in fully duplicating between Melton and Wendouree.
TOQ-1

It's highly unlikely the track will be fully duplicated in its entirety between Melton and Wendouree in our lifetimes.

Mike.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
A second platform and loop is being added at Wendouree, which will mean that the single track section is slightly shorter, which should help improve the reliability of a two hour service.

Ararat only has a population of about 9000 in the town itself. Even with the potential for coach connections all around, the current 4.5 return trains a day, and a potential of a two hour frequency should more than do for decades. Far better to invest in fully duplicating between Melton and Wendouree.

It's highly unlikely the track will be fully duplicated in its entirety between Melton and Wendouree in our lifetimes.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I don't know about you, but I'm only 24.

With Ballarat's population at over 100,000 and still growing, the need for more peak capacity and flexibility if something goes wrong, a continuing series of incremental projects along the lines of the current one could see it done. Maybe a better phrasing on my part would have been 'working towards fully duplicating'.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Just by the by.

I did a quick check on Vicsig just now and noticed there were no passing loops between Ballarat and Aarart. This seems odd, given its status as a former mainline to Adelaide. Were there any passing loops there in the past? Should one be created there today?
Yes prior to the 1995  standardization of the Adelaide line there were crossing loops at Burumbeet,  Trawalla , and Beaufort IIRC .  The most useful was a lengthened loop at Trawalla where the earthworks still  remain of the former  #  2 Road ,

On the current line without an intermediate crossing  loop it is possible to run trains as close as 60 minutes in the same direction, or as trains in both directions a two hourly frequency can be run .

The  Wimmera Rail Study (2017)  proposed ultimate standardization of the Ballarat -  Ararat bg line with separate sg and bg tracks between Ballarat & Wendouree with an intermediate loop at Trawalla on the former earthworks .
kuldalai
Thanks to Kuldalai and everyone else for the info. I think one well placed passing loop on the Ballarat to Ararart line should suffice. Trawalla being the obvious candidate.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A second platform and loop is being added at Wendouree, which will mean that the single track section is slightly shorter, which should help improve the reliability of a two hour service.

Ararat only has a population of about 9000 in the town itself. Even with the potential for coach connections all around, the current 4.5 return trains a day, and a potential of a two hour frequency should more than do for decades. Far better to invest in fully duplicating between Melton and Wendouree.

It's highly unlikely the track will be fully duplicated in its entirety between Melton and Wendouree in our lifetimes.

Mike.
I don't know about you, but I'm only 24.

With Ballarat's population at over 100,000 and still growing, the need for more peak capacity and flexibility if something goes wrong, a continuing series of incremental projects along the lines of the current one could see it done. Maybe a better phrasing on my part would have been 'working towards fully duplicating'.
TOQ-1

Hey, I appreciate your tender age, however I'm a local and I can tell you it would cost well over $1Billion to get the track duplicated from the horseshoe curve a second very high bridge, then up the escarpment through a widened cutting of basalt and a new bridge over the Ironbark Gully (Ballan-Bacchus Marsh road) and that's only around 5 km in length.

That money would be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Total travel time for a V'Locity over that length of track is around 5 mins.

Mike.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I'm with the Vinelander on this one. The extra passing loop being installed at Ballan together with the current bank box loop will suffice for a long time.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Total travel time for a V'Locity over that length of track is around 5 mins.
The Vinelander

To play devil’s advocate Mike, that means even 10 minute frequency is impossible. Even peak direction 6tph would be challenging. With a growing population of some 100,00 there’s easy justification for this; moreover, those who’ve been following my 2030 Sunshine Service Plan rants will know that I anticipate 10tph Geelong, 6tph Ballarat and 6tph Airport sharing a tunnel. So to my mind, the current state of play on the Melton-Ballarat line will be inadequate within the foreseeable future.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Total travel time for a V'Locity over that length of track is around 5 mins.

To play devil’s advocate Mike, that means even 10 minute frequency is impossible. Even peak direction 6tph would be challenging. With a growing population of some 100,00 there’s easy justification for this; moreover, those who’ve been following my 2030 Sunshine Service Plan rants will know that I anticipate 10tph Geelong, 6tph Ballarat and 6tph Airport sharing a tunnel. So to my mind, the current state of play on the Melton-Ballarat line will be inadequate within the foreseeable future.
potatoinmymouth

Interesting comments PIMM...but I don't agree at this time.

Let's revisit this...say in 2050 when I'm 95 and ready to fall off the perch and we'll discuss the situation then... Smile

Mike.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
And not forgetting the Mildura line discussions in 2050:P

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