Desal in nsw

 
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
New thread created (old thread too large to split) to continue discussion.  There is a seperate  new XPT thread as well. Original thread was:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11368621-0-asc-s2175.htm

the last page relates to this thread.

dthead- moderator
================================================



Too bad the brand new trains have no sleeper accommodation. Goes to show what contempt our politicians have for the paying passenger. Return to sender...

Getting back to what I said earlier, if people around the darling floodplains have had the river taken away from them, what makes you think they will ever see a CAF?

From the number of sets I have seen published in the tables, I am even more certain that any technical or breakdown problems on OTHER smaller set routes, will require backups. In fact, this is a problem across the entire NSW Trains network.

I am yet to be convinced that BH will see anything other than XPLs or rubber, which again is not a bad thing. If they put up with PH101 for a long time, they can make do with the XPL.

The NSW election is over, time for the politicians to stop playing pretend...
ANR

Broken Hill will see the new train ANR because that is what is replacing the Xplorer. The new trains are just a newer and more modern type of Xplorer being diesel electric instead of diesel hydraulic.

As for the river the only way to fix that is to link those water hungry cotton farms and the river to water resources from the east of the state. Certainly the desalination plant in Sydney should be working 100% to provide the cotton farmers with water instead of using the resource from inland rivers.
Simstrain

Sponsored advertisement

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
This thread will go the way of the Dodo very fast...
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Warragamba is on the range. It is very easy to get pipes going west from there.

Waste water is a good idea as well but desal can be used as drinking water which your not going to do with waste water.
Sims

Yes you can drink recycled water if treated sufficiently. A few examples
- Most inland towns and cities in Aust, EU etc taking their drinking water from rivers as there is always someone upstream.
- International Space station
- Brisbane has a 100% recycle close loop installation as backup for drought although never used.

As I said, treat, run through a lagoon and then release into the river.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
RTT’s first point is bang on.  

It amused me in the massive media hype when Toowoomba debated this early in the 21st century. Most Australians fail to recognise that water reuse occurs for anyone living on the Murray-Darling System. I would think it is better to plan for reuse of water a source (not the only source) of water than pretend it doesn’t occur.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Well if the people on the murray darling want to use it for drinking water then so be it. Still need to run pipes to get that waste water from the east coast to inland. So the cost is likely to be the same for recycled vs desal.
  matthewg Train Controller

Well if the people on the murray darling want to use it for drinking water then so be it. Still need to run pipes to get that waste water from the east coast to inland. So the cost is likely to be the same for recycled vs desal.
simstrain
In terms of running costs for the machinery, treating wastewater to human consumption level is cheaper than having to remove the salt and THEN treat to human consumption level.

That is why Singapore built a weir across the entrance to Marina Bay, creating a large body of fresh, but rather contaminated, water instead of just letting the Singapore river run into the sea and then suck up salt water into the waterworks.

But all this started with the massive water consumption required by cotton farming - and they could irrigate with 'grey' water anyway, it wouldn't need to be treated to human consumption standard. But even the costs of pumping secondary level treated water out to the cotton fields from the coastal cities would blow the economics of cotton production out.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
Well if the people on the murray darling want to use it for drinking water then so be it. Still need to run pipes to get that waste water from the east coast to inland. So the cost is likely to be the same for recycled vs desal.
simstrain
Not sure what plan there is to run pipes of Waste water from the east coast to the Murray Darling?

What I am talking about is that water is consumed by the residents of Bourke. Then that water is passed out by residents and treated as waste water and the treated water goes back into the Murray Darling and then the next community along the river receives the water, treats it for consumption and so it continues all the way down the system. This of course would also gain rainfall, run off from other uses like farms etc. That is what a good water treatment process has to manage.

Of course this is predicated that there is actual water flow and that is another topic, and the reality is that most drought affected towns would use bore supplies. But the argument I am making is that some of SA's water has in theory been reused many times by the time they use it.

What I am meaning is that anyone that lives along a long river system, would be consuming treated waste water as part of the mix of water that is treated for water consumption.

It is just simply a reflection of our society that doesn't really care how water, waste, transport really  works, all they care about that it works and they can get it.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Sims,
What do you think happens to all the waste water from cities and towns west of the Blue Mountains in NSW and Liverpool Range in Southern Qld?

It all goes in the Murray Darling catchment.

Who lives downstream, well other towns in NSW, but let's not forget Mildura and of course Adelaide. Where do you think the links of Paris gets its water from?

Do you have any understanding on how much effort is required to remove salt? Noting that same seawater is where the current effluent flows into?

Tertiary treatment is the legal standard required these days, this after chlorination is basically drinkable. However running through a lagoon and the larger water flow of the rivers does a pretty good job as well.

The potential flow from the desal plant is very limited and in times of drought, simply not available so use what will always be available.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Build a pipeline from Wonthaggi to the Goulburn river, see the magic happen.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Warragamba dam's water catchment area is huge. Warramba and it's tributaries and linked dams like Lake lyell near lithgow are the perfect place to start water proofing the west. Much if not all of the pipework is already laid to the east and it just needs connection to the west.

In times of floods moving water west could help reduce flooding effects along the nepean river. So it isn't just a project to make water for the west but also a flood mitigation solution as well.

https://www.waternsw.com.au/water-quality/catchment/sub-catchment/warragamba
  UpperQuad Locomotive Fireman

Location: 184.8 miles to Sydney
Warragamba dam's water catchment area is huge. Warramba and it's tributaries and linked dams like Lake lyell near lithgow are the perfect place to start water proofing the west. Much if not all of the pipework is already laid to the east and it just needs connection to the west.
simstrain
That’s the catchment, Sims, not the supply, and existing pipes are for gravitation. Warragamba is not on the Range, it is 50km east of the Range, and over 500m below it. Towns as far west as Parkes are significantly higher. Apart from laying pipes, your project may require several nuclear power plants to lift the required amount of Sydney’s precious drinking water over the range. Perhaps a tunnel could be bored to Narromine?
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Water is already being pumped from east flowing rivers to westward flowing rivers. Trouble is it is a trickle compared with the flows required.
Toowoomba is connected with the Brisbane water grid. In times of drought Toowoomba's limited storage is augmented by water pumped up the range from Wivenhoe Dam. When this is used and flushed it flows into Gowrie Creek which flows westward eventually to the Darling River.
It is theoretically possible to send Gold coast's desal water westward by the same system.
Of course the reason why it is not done is that we are farming cattle and crops, not pink diamonds.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise

Toowoomba is connected with the Brisbane water grid. In times of drought Toowoomba's limited storage is augmented by water pumped up the range from Wivenhoe Dam. When this is used and flushed it flows into Gowrie Creek which flows westward eventually to the Darling River.
It is theoretically possible to send Gold coast's desal water westward by the same system.
Of course the reason why it is not done is that we are farming cattle and crops, not pink diamonds.
neillfarmer
Seems a very expensive outcome when they could have treated their wastewater and placed that into their water catchment. That was one of the solutions that was proposed. However it was knocked out by local referendum in 2006. Fair enough that is democracy. Just pay more in water bills.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Warragamba dam's water catchment area is huge. Warramba and it's tributaries and linked dams like Lake lyell near lithgow are the perfect place to start water proofing the west. Much if not all of the pipework is already laid to the east and it just needs connection to the west.

In times of floods moving water west could help reduce flooding effects along the nepean river. So it isn't just a project to make water for the west but also a flood mitigation solution as well.

https://www.waternsw.com.au/water-quality/catchment/sub-catchment/warragamba
simstrain
even on a site dedicated to Rail topics, at some point the off-topic discussion needs a reality check.

Aust Bureau Stats: Water 2016-17 (see Main Findings - apologies the ABS  "Flash" is not so flash)

IF
ALL the water from the Sydney network and country towns (ie  Households - roughly)
were diverted to the west rivers for agricultural purposes
that is ONLY 1/6 of what is currently used by agriculture.

Recycled Sydney water + desal is a drop in the bucket of what is required.

Had the same BS argument in Victoria couple of years ago.
CITY water use (and infrastructure capacity) is minuscule compared to what farmers need & use.

And for all those that still think farmers are hard done by, look at the "MONETARY WATER SUPPLY AND USE" graph.
Agriculture:  9% of the cost, 60% of the water.
Households:62% of the cost, 15% of the water.

cheers
John

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Big J

Display from: