High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT) Order

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

HCMTs on the Sandringham line? Just run more trains to Sandringham instead.

I'd reckon the Frankston line would need the HCMTs more than the Sandringham line.

Also it would be 2023 when the 65th train is delivered for the Sunbury-Dandenong corridor.
So you are going too ahead of yourself.

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Neither Frankston nor Craigieburn will be getting Evolution HCMTs in an order extension - both are currently Loop lines and will remain so in the long-term future as candidates for the Loop reconfiguration. No one will be blowing big bikkies extending Loop platforms - communications-based signalling would be of not dissimilar cost (~$1b for both corridors based on the Watergardens-Dandenong contract)  and provide a much better outcome in the medium-to-long term.

They are good candidates however for XTrap 2.0 orders, which could be a permanent six-car version of the current design.

It is far more likely that a second Evolution order will be placed to saturate the post-2025 Cross City Group from Werribee to Sandringham.

A third order would fit the timeframe for Metro 2 opening, IF the Metro 1 TBMs roll straight on (which I think is a political possibility but by no means a certainty given SRL construction will be starting in the same year).
  Lockie91 Train Controller


So with future population growth we can look at which lines will need high capacity trains for the future projected load and who needs then now


We can see the lines that will need HCMTs based on this growth and patronage data are the Mernda, Werribee, Cragieburn and Sandringham.


The first two, Mernda and Werribee will eventually run via Metro 2 and there will be a branch to Wollert so that takes care of itself. The Cragieburn Line is the most overcrowded and is growing so it needs HCMTs as well.

Based on statistics

Mernda (proportion of overcrowded services is 46%, will keep going up)
Werribee (proportion of overcrowd services is 47%, will keep going up)
Cragieburn (proportion of overcrowded services is 63%, that will keep going up)
Sandringham (proportion of overcrowded services is 47%)

Two of those lines Sandringham and Cragieburn have had little or no extra services added in quite a few years. This can address the issue and it will in the short term, look at the Frankston Line and the success with 10 Minute turn up and go. However, Peak Hour is crammed and even off peak is crowded on these lines above.


Projected growth:

Pakenham, Sunbury and Cranbourne are getting the HCMTs, possibly Melton as well. We know about Mernda and the growth up there, we know about Werribee and the massive growth in that corridor.

If you look at annual patronage growth the Sandringham and Upfield Lines have the highest, excluding the Metro Tunnel candidates. The latter will obviously get extra services once Duplication and capacity opens up.


So next in line for HCMTs

- Cragieburn
- Werribee and Mernda (Metro 2 perhaps)
- Sandringham (and I can’t believe in saying that)
ptvcommuter
You seem to have completely side stepped the capacity that will become available on day 1 operations of MM1, Current upgrades that are underway and planned on the network and the rumoured new timetable about to be introduced.

Craigieburn and Upfield will have dedicated use of the Northern Loop, which has a 200 second headway. Allowing a 5 minute frequency to Craigieburn and Upfield (Pending duplication) On the Craigieburn line this represents a doubling in peak hour capacity and even more on the upfield line. No need for HCMT on this line for quite sometime.

Frankston is rumoured to be coming out of the Caulfield loop in April when the new timetable is rolled out. (The sand belt will have to live with it until 2025, when they will have exclusive use of the Caulfield loop.) This will enable a capacity uplift on both the Frankston and Werribee lines until MM1 day 1, with the city loop no longer hindering capacity on the Frankston Line. Once again you could have a 5 minute peak frequency on both these lines that would not interact on rest of the network.

This gives a little breathing room to the Dandenong Group until MM1 Day 1, when Frankston will enjoy a two and half minute peak frequency.

There is nothing stopping the Sandringham Line having a 5/10 frequency now, it is the only line on the metro network that is currently segregated. No need for HCMT's here for a while. MM1 Day 1 this will become the new cross city line.

Clifton Hill rationalisation project was announced last year, this will squeeze more capacity out of this pinch point.

Candidates for the next roll out would be Mernda and Hurstbridge. Testing is being carried out on the new Mernda section in the lead up to MM1, will be simple to continue to roll this out once MM1 is operational. @PIMM the initial HCMTs will fit on the current city loop platforms, Signals have already been repositioned in the Caulfield loop as the drivers cabin will sit forward of the platform.

I don't expect any announcement on the next order of HCMT's until before the 2022 election when half the current order will be in service. You won't see any of these until after the current order is complete in 2025.


Lockie
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

A few rumours that E01 has not had a smooth entry into service, including an alleged cracked bogie.

Would be interested to know if anyone around here can confirm or deny...
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

That would explain the silence from the government recently.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Well, the rumours may have been unfounded, as the word on the street from more reliable sources is that mainline tests are "anticipated to commence shortly". We shall see what the end of Feb brings.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Any word on the street about the HCMT? They surely must be commencing testing soon.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Are the HCMTs made from stainless steel or are they using some cheap crap like with the XTraps ?
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
They're made in China, so........

And as for cheap crap? Well, trains don't exactly need to be made to withstand a crash anymore.
Why? We don't crash them do we. This may be a hard point to swallow, but if planes were, then they'd never fly would they???

As for Xtraps, the spring suspension is probably their main detractor. To be honest if we didn't have a shizola track system, we probably wouldn't need any suspension on trains. However that's not the real world we're in is it.

The real answer is whether the HCMT was designed/bought to a price or a standard???

That I don't know.

Regards
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

They're made in China, so........ And as for cheap crap? Well, trains don't exactly need to be made to withstand a crash anymore. Why? We don't crash them do we. This may be a hard point to swallow, but if planes were, then they'd never fly would they??? As for Xtraps, the spring suspension is probably their main detractor. To be honest if we didn't have a shizola track system, we probably wouldn't need any suspension on trains. However that's not the real world we're in is it. The real answer is whether the HCMT was designed/bought to a price or a standard??? That I don't know.
davesvline


Not just that
They were brought from a manufacturer which have a questionable record delivering trains which are acceptable and on time.

The HCMT’s needed to be plug door, four doors per side with the door width like Siemens and configured for high capacity use.

Instead we’ve gone with doors like the Xtraps/Comeng and a configuration which isn’t any better at dealing with crush load, only an extra carriage and 200 odd passengers that can fit.
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Any word on the street about the HCMT? They surely must be commencing testing soon.
reubstar6
Gotta wait until after the April shutdown. They can't run past South Yarra just yet.

After April the new wiring should all be done through the caulfield loop which means testing can begin, unless one or two more substations need to be built along the entire line.
  stefcio007 Beginner

When will these be publicly available to ride in? It says mid-2019 on the website. Is that on track? (pun unintended)
  Lockie91 Train Controller

I believe that testing will begin sometime after the current occupation. Final signalling and power upgrades need to be completed between Caulfield and Flinders Street and also through the City Loop. So I would suspect sometime in May for testing and first revenue service end of June/July.

Tender document say that one we be delivered every month until the order is complete in 2023/24.

On a side note, do we know where the displaced Comengs will end up? Another stabling facility will need to be built to accommodate the 40 plus displaced sets.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Some Comengs have been earmarked to return to regular running on the Lilydale and Belgrave Lines.
  Lockie91 Train Controller

The leafy south eastern commuters will be mortified if the beloved clapped out comeng returned.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I believe that testing will begin sometime after the current occupation. Final signalling and power upgrades need to be completed between Caulfield and Flinders Street and also through the City Loop. So I would suspect sometime in May for testing and first revenue service end of June/July.

Tender document say that one we be delivered every month until the order is complete in 2023/24.

On a side note, do we know where the displaced Comengs will end up? Another stabling facility will need to be built to accommodate the 40 plus displaced sets.
Lockie91
They'll probably just keep the spares at Dandenong for a while? If the HCMTs are only coming online at one per month and all being stored at the new Pakenham facility, it's not like there will be mass displacement of them, not with major timetable increases being a long way off.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I would prefer a Comeng (preferably not clapped out though) to an xtrap any day.

Lilydale is north east, not south east, and it's not so leafy after the drought.  Some big trees have died.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Marcus Wong has posted the first photos of follow on HCMTs at Newport that I've seen since the big outing of the first set to Pakenham, months ago. The notes to his photos indicate that sets 2 to 5 are being assembled and nos. 2 and 3 look likely to be ready to move east reasonably soon.

HCMT April 7th

Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

No 2 is on the move tonight. Ex Newport 0030. Similar consist to last time: S, 22 flats, 2 Ts, the BVDY, the HCMT.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
A few upgrade notes.

A huge new substation is currently being installed in the old Malvern sidings area.  It's a bit hard to miss.  Over the past few weeks, and especially during the last shutdown an amount of cabling has been installed in the area.  While it's hard to see what's been going on lately it appears that the final cable connections are being made ready. I have little idea when the final commissioning will be taking place.  Likewise an amount of work has been taking place at Toorak around the Tie station that is there.  I believe the plan was to upgrade Tie stations to become substations.

I'm sure people have also noticed the two substations stacked on top of one another at Spencer St that are also being installed. These are on the left-hand side of the tracks when approaching Southern Cross. Quite a significant upgrade to power systems in the area.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
No 2 is on the move tonight. Ex Newport 0030. Similar consist to last time: S, 22 flats, 2 Ts, the BVDY, the HCMT.
potatoinmymouth
Marcus Wong took the time to photograph this transfer, now posted to his website Marcus Wong. Train was hauled by an SSR B with S & T mid train otherwise as PIMM said it would be. One of the flats had a number of concrete sleepers on board; for the depot?
This one has seating installed and is already numbered which the first didn't have.

Neil
  steve195 Train Controller
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

No 2 is on the move tonight. Ex Newport 0030. Similar consist to last time: S, 22 flats, 2 Ts, the BVDY, the HCMT.
Marcus Wong took the time to photograph this transfer, now posted to his website Marcus Wong. Train was hauled by an SSR B with S & T mid train otherwise as PIMM said it would be. One of the flats had a number of concrete sleepers on board; for the depot?
This one has seating installed and is already numbered which the first didn't have.

Neil
ngarner
Probably to add mass for braking performance.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The Lund story is not just a media beat-up: the contract specifies that the first set should have been in revenue service by March 29 2019.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

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