2019 Federal Election Thread

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

We are at the stage now that really hardly anything is now Australian made and that includes food as well, a lot of Australian food brands now carry marking that they are made from local and imported ingredients but I bet my last dollar that the imported part is the greater of the two.

All we are good for now is digging something out of the soil and exporting it to buy it back in products made overseas.
DJPeters
The 'local and imported ingredients' line is no longer allowed to be used with the Australian Made logo.

Using the Australian Made logo on foods now requires including additional information showing the minimum proportion of Australian ingredients underneath the logo.

A quick look in my kitchen shows the Australian Made logo used correctly on a few products, including a couple with less than 50%:
Fleurieu Milk Company full cream milk - 100%
Western Star dairy spread - at least 90%
Millel Parmesan cheese - at least 94%
Mission tortillas - at least 88%
Bega Peanut Butter - at least 30%
Nippys Pineapple Juice - 0% (still eligible for Australian Made logo with the 0% bar below it, as it is packed in Australia from imported ingredients)

Claims about Australian involvement which are not regulated due to not using the Australian Made logo:
Lindt Hot Chocolate Flakes - "Milk Chocolate manufactured by Lindt & Sprüngli (Schweiz) AG, Flakes manufactured and packed in Australia"
Bundaberg Ginger Beer - "Made in Australia" (no country of origin information, no logo)

And a few others which are compliant with the rules because they make no claim about Australian content.
Siena Passata - "packed in Italy from local and imported ingredients"
Trident Sweet Chilli Sauce - "made in Thailand from local and important ingredients"
Nandos Peri-Peri Marinade - "made in South Africa" (no country of origin information)
John West Tuna - "made in Thailand"

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  ANR Assistant Commissioner

I think Mark Latham's One Nation experiment is proof that it is possible to hold ideas and views about various economic, social and political issues that can't be pigeon holed into left, middle ground or right wing even if he finds himself in the far right at the moment. Look at Palmer's pitch to the battlers in relation to local manufacturing, electricity handouts etc. This is why their preferences will be key to the coalition... Because the Nationals will be decimated at the polls. If a Morrison govt gets up, it will be a very interesting time in Australian politics.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Has there been confirmation the Federal ALP intend supporting the North East Link in Victoria?  I can only find money allocated federally from the libs.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
We are at the stage now that really hardly anything is now Australian made and that includes food as well, a lot of Australian food brands now carry marking that they are made from local and imported ingredients but I bet my last dollar that the imported part is the greater of the two.

All we are good for now is digging something out of the soil and exporting it to buy it back in products made overseas.
The 'local and imported ingredients' line is no longer allowed to be used with the Australian Made logo.
Mission tortillas - at least 88%
Bega Peanut Butter - at least 30%
Nippys Pineapple Juice - 0% (still eligible for Australian Made logo with the 0% bar below it, as it is packed in Australia from imported ingredients)
Nandos Peri-Peri Marinade - "made in South Africa" (no country of origin information)
John West Tuna - "made in Thailand"
justapassenger
In addition to that interesting list, snipped for space, is Woolworths brand Sao biscuits. I was somewhat annoyed to discover this afternoon it is labelled as made in China, although the Woolworths Jatz style biscuits have a local label, thus why I expected Sao type biscuit to also be local. Now I have to find a locally made sao style biscuit as I try to avoid Arnotts due to their USA link.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Make your crackers and buy your food from your local growers market.

When I buy frozen veggies (as backup to fresh fruit and vegetables), the first thing I read is the label.

If you don't read the label you could be helping a home grown company offshore itself.

We can't afford to stop feeding ourselves.
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

"Change and adapt" means we will have living standards the same as the Asian neighbours that we are competing against. In terms of decline in living standards, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Not meaning to sound racist, but with so many Asian people now living in Australia, perhaps we should adopt their living standards? Smile
Okay, you first.
My Asian inlaws living standards are as follows
- 5 bedroom Villa in Penang, Malaysia with nanny for their handicapped child, maid etc
- 3 bed double story apartment in a high end part of Singapore driving a large Volvo, complex has 25m swimming pool
- 3 bed apartment at Milson's point over looking Sydney Harbour bridge
- Sydney North Shore large house some where

My wife has 4 cousins born in Oz that are all Doctors, 2 more that are uncle and aunt.

where did they all come from? A small village 100km south of KL, where the kitchen with dirt floor was partly outside all food cooked in a large wok over an open fire, no refrigerator. The house is actually a shop but only used as a house with an active freight railway running in the street next to their side of the foot path 3m from their front door.  5 kids, no welfare, limited medical, local schools etc

Yep, maybe we could all learn something from them and stop bitching!
RTT_Rules
RTT, worked with many people who came from Vietnam, late 70s early 80s.
As you say broken English and SFA else. some of the most pleasant group, you could ever hope to meet. Engaged primarily in semi skilled jobs. Stable employment with reasonable T&Cs.

Those who had kids were rather proud,and why not. The ones in school, excelled. and older ones who progressed to tertiary education or employment were almost exclusively engaged in the medical sector. Specialist, clinicians, pharmacists,,,


In contrast, my niece at 22, who has had everything handed to her on a silver plate, add some unfortunate circumstances some of her own making,some not. Finds her only source of income is casual employment, working as a GPU (glass picker upper)

So yep, time to harder the fark up.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT, worked with many people who came from Vietnam, late 70s early 80s.
As you say broken English and SFA else. some of the most pleasant group, you could ever hope to meet. Engaged primarily in semi skilled jobs. Stable employment with reasonable T&Cs.

Those who had kids were rather proud,and why not. The ones in school, excelled. and older ones who progressed to tertiary education or employment were almost exclusively engaged in the medical sector. Specialist, clinicians, pharmacists,,,


In contrast, my niece at 22, who has had everything handed to her on a silver plate, add some unfortunate circumstances some of her own making,some not. Finds her only source of income is casual employment, working as a GPU (glass picker upper)

So yep, time to harder the fark up.
michaelgm
Yep,
I compare my inlaw "asian" side with my "white" side in what they have achieved, also noting my dads family moved in 1949 from war torn EU with not much either or my mum's side which is 150 years +, its very black and white The Asians would also be funding the welfare payments to others. .

Migrants built this country, as they did in USA, NZ, Canada and even Sth America, unfortunately in too many cases their off-spring after a few generations seem far less committed to the same values.

I know Don and others likes to pick on my living in Dubai, some saying its not the real world and its not, we all know that here. But it is very much like a large population if Migrants, most came here for one main reason, to make money and improve the standard of living for our kids, including those on the bottom of the food chain making 2-3 x their incomes back home. As 85% of the population are expats and citizenship and PR is not an option, it does drive a very different culture/ethic and yes the word "entitlement" does come to mind.

I think one of the biggest differences to Aust, Can, NZ and USA success over South America in the last 40-50 years is migration to Sth America pretty much stopped 50+ years ago thus cutting off the supply of "fresh blood" to feed the work ethic to achieve over politics and religion. Open to correction.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know Don and others likes to pick on my living in Dubai, some saying its not the real world and its not, we all know that here.
RTT_Rules
No, I pick on you because you have a really narrow-minded way of looking at the world not necessarily to do with living in Dubai.

And here's an example right here:
Yep, I compare my inlaw "asian" side with my "white" side in what they have achieved, also noting my dads family moved in 1949 from war torn EU with not much either or my mum's side which is 150 years +, its very black and white The Asians would also be funding the welfare payments to others. . Migrants built this country, as they did in USA, NZ, Canada and even Sth America, unfortunately in too many cases their off-spring after a few generations seem far less committed to the same values.
RTT_Rules
"The same values" being what? "Oh noes, our childrens have truly become Oztrailian now - see how they all sit on their respective bums and do nothing. The curse of becoming Oztralian!"

Anyway if only migrant societies are prosperous and hard working then how do you explain China and Japan? Or do you have some crazy borderline racist genetic theory for that...
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I know Don and others likes to pick on my living in Dubai, some saying its not the real world and its not, we all know that here.
No, I pick on you because you have a really narrow-minded way of looking at the world not necessarily to do with living in Dubai.

And here's an example right here:
Yep, I compare my inlaw "asian" side with my "white" side in what they have achieved, also noting my dads family moved in 1949 from war torn EU with not much either or my mum's side which is 150 years +, its very black and white The Asians would also be funding the welfare payments to others. . Migrants built trighthis country, as they did in USA, NZ, Canada and even Sth America, unfortunately in too many cases their off-spring after a few generations seem far less committed to the same values.
"The same values" being what? "Oh noes, our childrens have truly become Oztrailian now - see how they all sit on their respective bums and do nothing. The curse of becoming Oztralian!"

Anyway if only migrant societies are prosperous and hard working then how do you explain China and Japan? Or do you have some crazy borderline racist genetic theory for that...
don_dunstan
Narrow Minded? I'll leave that for others to decide.

Japan's strength is any always be its discipline, strong work ethic and eye for detail and very patriotic to support its own industry, regardless of the cost, its weaknesses are lack of innovation. It also wasn't allowed to dump large amounts of money into the military for half a century and accepting welfare is culturally taboo, thus leaving the govt with ~10% more money to spend on the economy. Japan is now past its prime as its Quality and efficiency "formula" is now being replicated by others, including many industries in Australia.

China strength is its shear size, people, diverse economy, natural resources and its unwillingness to care about copyright everything they can get theirs hands on to achieve its govt directive.

In neither society will you find the young waiting for the world to give them a job and paying them while they wait.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

I have nothing against migrants coming to Australia as long as they do it legally and only get any handouts that will help them here.  The boat people and those that jump queues claiming to be refugees though should get nothing as they are only after money nothing else really matters. How many genuine refugees come to Australia with mobile phones, designer clothes almost and a lot of other things exceopt any documents of course that could prove they are not what they say they are. Seems a lot gets thrown overboard and not just children either. These types need to be returned straight away to where they come from and if the want to immigrate here they have to do it legally. If they get shot or something on return that is not Australias problem but the laws of their state.

The Federal Govt handing out money and things to them on a gold platter is just asking a queue to form, about illegal entry deny them the money and watch the attempts peter off to nothing almost.

The older migrants got nothing except a place in a migrant hostel that was home for a while but they nearly all went out and found work back then and improved their lot after a few years. These day the illegals get better treatment and money than the legal immigrants get and that is not right at all. They also have to learn that this is Australia, not Iraq or some poor middle eastern hell hole, and so they either accept Australia as it is or turn around at the airport and go back to where they came from the choice is theirs. If they want things like Sharia law then practice it them selves but do not dictate to the rest of Australia that Sharia law should be bought in because that is a bit like the USA years ago in the South with laws for whites and laws for blacks, one law for everbody is a lot easier to police though lot cheaper as well.

I know of several Greek, Italian, Vietnamese and other families in my area that started with nothing and slowly clawed their way out of the hole they were in so to speak. They learnt English, got a job and fitted in with the rest of the neighbourhood, they did not ask for special treatment, they just rolled their sleeves up and got on with it in their new adopted country.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
In my local supermarket this morning, I noticed that Cottees has named Chocolate and Strawberry dessert toppings after some of our pollies. They're branded, "Rich and Thick."
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I have nothing against migrants coming to Australia as long as they do it legally and only get any handouts that will help them here.  The boat people and those that jump queues claiming to be refugees though should get nothing as they are only after money nothing else really matters. How many genuine refugees come to Australia with mobile phones, designer clothes almost and a lot of other things exceopt any documents of course that could prove they are not what they say they are. Seems a lot gets thrown overboard and not just children either. These types need to be returned straight away to where they come from and if the want to immigrate here they have to do it legally. If they get shot or something on return that is not Australias problem but the laws of their state.

The Federal Govt handing out money and things to them on a gold platter is just asking a queue to form, about illegal entry deny them the money and watch the attempts peter off to nothing almost.

The older migrants got nothing except a place in a migrant hostel that was home for a while but they nearly all went out and found work back then and improved their lot after a few years. These day the illegals get better treatment and money than the legal immigrants get and that is not right at all. They also have to learn that this is Australia, not Iraq or some poor middle eastern hell hole, and so they either accept Australia as it is or turn around at the airport and go back to where they came from the choice is theirs. If they want things like Sharia law then practice it them selves but do not dictate to the rest of Australia that Sharia law should be bought in because that is a bit like the USA years ago in the South with laws for whites and laws for blacks, one law for everbody is a lot easier to police though lot cheaper as well.

I know of several Greek, Italian, Vietnamese and other families in my area that started with nothing and slowly clawed their way out of the hole they were in so to speak. They learnt English, got a job and fitted in with the rest of the neighbourhood, they did not ask for special treatment, they just rolled their sleeves up and got on with it in their new adopted country.
DJPeters

My god - are there any cliches you've forgotten in that rant Razz
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

With the opinion polls so close now, is anyone brave enough to call a winner?

Here is my 2 cents... A hung parliament with an ultra right wing Senate.

A problem result, regardless of an ALP or Coalition minority government or even outright victory.

Clive's $55 million campaign will come home to roost.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
With the opinion polls so close now, is anyone brave enough to call a winner?

Here is my 2 cents... A hung parliament with an ultra right wing Senate.

A problem result, regardless of an ALP or Coalition minority government or even outright victory.

Clive's $55 million campaign will come home to roost.
ANR
No predictions here, just an observation that even if PUP led by Cliiiiive from Kweeeensland attracts 20% of the primary vote in every seat, he will still not win any seats. He's treating the electorate as mugs. Unfortunately there are plenty of them around, and they will duly waste their votes, but in the scheme of things should not be a factor.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
ALP win, but minority govt or small majority.

No control of Senate

Billy is fired within 2 years
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

It will be an ALP slim majority. Bill will lead a full term.

The thing with the Liberals is that Malcolm was the opposition leader for the Liberals, then Tony won the challenge. I guess Malcolm took the opportunity to take over when Tony was unpopular. This Liberal instability started before they were elected in 2013, it just escalated when they were in government.

The Labor government learned it's lesson after being voted out. Also when about the popularity of the leader.

Well, Daniel Andrews was behind in popularity as a leader in the polls, but the party was ahead back before the 2014 Victorian election. He set out all the policies in 2013-2014. After winning the government, he set all the policies and got the infrastructure agenda underway and continued to expand his agenda, and won a landslide.

It all depends on whether Shorten and his team can perform as a working competent government or not? If they follow through with their positive agenda, while keep Australia is a better economic situation, then they'll landslide the next election in 2022.

To be fair, I think Shorten has improved as a leader compared when he started out. He seems to talk more like a leader than the current prime minister. While the government has been acting more like the opposition, more focussed talk down the plans of the opposition, than trying to convince their own agenda. Cause the current government doesn't have much of a vision or plan.

Anyways only time will tell, to see what happens during the election and post-election.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Has there been confirmation the Federal ALP intend supporting the North East Link in Victoria?  I can only find money allocated federally from the libs.
x31

Federal ALP did support the Doncaster busway, which is part of the North East Link project. I don't think they've put money directly into the North East Link.

For Transport Infrastructure in Victoria:

Bipartisan:
Airport Rail Link
Car-parks at Railway stations

ALP:
High-Speed Rail Melb-Brisbane (land acquisitions/business case)
Doncaster Busway
South East Road Package
Metro Tunnel
Suburban Rail Loop

Liberals:
Geelong High-Speed Rail
South Geelong - Waurn Ponds rail duplication
The level crossing removals on the Glen Waverly line
East West Link
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Interesting to see the latest Newspoll which says 17% of voters are still undecided.  It could go either way to be honest.

And I am sick to death of Clive Palmer's ads on TV.  His 2 minute long mini-documentary on the Cape Preston Airport was the most bizarre thing I've ever seen.  And possibly wildly false.  Who knows?:  https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/clive-palmers-newest-ad-picked-apart-by-experts-in-politics-and-defence/news-story/41b84f2461d77f02784ce87dcebf94f1
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Agree, the LNP rot started I think in 2009 when MT lost to TA, just. MT then went on to destroy the LNP and undermine TA.

Had TA been a stronger leader he would have worked to get MT kicked out for the things he did. There is a long list of LNP MP's that should be fired over their support for MT, many of them know and hence resigned from this election, JB being one.

ALP put things in place to prevent the spills, but a party on the back foot going to the polls will still dump an unpopular leader if they have a better option.

Bill's problem is he is already very unpopular within his own ALP support base. I think there are many ALP voters dont still feel he ripped off the workers and wont forgive.  This election is not being g won by the ALP  but rather lost by LNP. The fact that it's still marginal on who will win is all Bill's legacy. If they had a stronger alt, Bill would have been dumped two years ago.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Agree, the LNP rot started I think in 2009 when MT lost to TA, just. MT then went on to destroy the LNP and undermine TA.

Had TA been a stronger leader he would have worked to get MT kicked out for the things he did. There is a long list of LNP MP's that should be fired over their support for MT, many of them know and hence resigned from this election, JB being one.

ALP put things in place to prevent the spills, but a party on the back foot going to the polls will still dump an unpopular leader if they have a better option.

Bill's problem is he is already very unpopular within his own ALP support base. I think there are many ALP voters dont still feel he ripped off the workers and wont forgive.  This election is not being g won by the ALP  but rather lost by LNP. The fact that it's still marginal on who will win is all Bill's legacy. If they had a stronger alt, Bill would have been dumped two years ago.
RTT_Rules
And yet MT's appeal in Vic (along with DA's unpopularity at the time) probably helped them win in 2016.  This year ScoMo seems to be helping their vote in Qld, but that's not the case in the Socialist Republic of Victoria or the post-Barnett basket-case that is Western Australia.

Billy Bob Shorten will attract some Greens voters who are fed up with that party's in-fighting though.  But at a cost since pretty much all socially conservative ALP voters (especially among immigrants) that have had a gutful of recent radical social policies adopted by the ALP, and will vote for others in response.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

In my local supermarket this morning, I noticed that Cottees has named Chocolate and Strawberry dessert toppings after some of our pollies. They're branded, "Rich and Thick."
Valvegear
The Strawberry one is a tribute to Barnaby Joyce. In addition to the name, it is the same colour as his face and also made in New Zealand.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Interesting to see the latest Newspoll which says 17% of voters are still undecided.  It could go either way to be honest.
Carnot
In addition to that, there's also the inherent weakness of the Newspoll headline 2PP question where most voters treat it as an approve/disapprove question on the performance of the government until it gets very close to the election.

Consequently, Newspoll 2PP usually converges towards 50/50 as election day gets closer. Even in 2007, the most decisive election in recent times, the Newspoll 2PP closed in to 52/48 on the last one before the election with the actual election having a national 2PP of 52.7/47.3 - though this was enough to secure 83 seats for Labor.

In addition to the undecided voters part, the likelihood of a few more seats going to non-classic results (i.e. independent or minor party) will also make the outcome hard to predict.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Interesting to see the latest Newspoll which says 17% of voters are still undecided.  It could go either way to be honest.
In addition to that, there's also the inherent weakness of the Newspoll headline 2PP question where most voters treat it as an approve/disapprove question on the performance of the government until it gets very close to the election.

Consequently, Newspoll 2PP usually converges towards 50/50 as election day gets closer. Even in 2007, the most decisive election in recent times, the Newspoll 2PP closed in to 52/48 on the last one before the election with the actual election having a national 2PP of 52.7/47.3 - though this was enough to secure 83 seats for Labor.

In addition to the undecided voters part, the likelihood of a few more seats going to non-classic results (i.e. independent or minor party) will also make the outcome hard to predict.
justapassenger
True.  And I think the Senate result will be highly controversial with the new voting method that's going to possibly trip up many voters (i.e They just put a 1 in the box above the line, but forget to preference the rest).  I suspect the Informal count will be through the roof.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

And I think the Senate result will be highly controversial with the new voting method that's going to possibly trip up many voters (i.e They just put a 1 in the box above the line, but forget to preference the rest).  I suspect the Informal count will be through the roof.
Carnot
The current system was used in the 2016 election, and the total informal vote across the nation was only 3.94%. The House of Representatives informal vote in 2016 was higher at 5.05%

A vote with 1 in one box above the line is not informal, it is covered by a savings provision (section 269 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act) and admitted to the count.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A vote with 1 in one box above the line is not informal, it is covered by a savings provision (section 269 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act) and admitted to the count.
justapassenger
The Senate Ballot Paper clearly states that the voter must number at least six boxes to vote above the line.

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