Multi-million dollar track maintenance for V/Line

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 26 May 2019 13:14
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Heads Up, V/Line are about to start tie renewal on the Seymour Line but only as far as the down line from the looks of it.

Makes no mention that I could see of the sleeper type Croncrete/Wooden?

Dual/SG Preparation?

Multi-million dollar track maintenance for V/Line

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Both up and down to be done by December.

Read the full article.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Both up and down to be done by December.

Read the full article.
Lockie91

yes but the initial works (and I did read the article) state the Down Line qucker than the up line. Perhaps I should have said "initially"
  Fatty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Downline is curently being resleepered. Concrete sleepers going in.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Heads Up, V/Line are about to start tie renewal on the Seymour Line but only as far as the down line from the looks of it.

Makes no mention that I could see of the sleeper type Croncrete/Wooden?

Dual/SG Preparation?

Multi-million dollar track maintenance for V/Line
bevans
Down line low profile broad gauge concrete  sleepers,  Up  line  wooden renewal as broad gauge .
Yet again a missed opportunity to be doing renewals as low profile gauge convertible concrete sleeper .
But stlll we have not asked Austrak to develop a design for such a beast, so that it can be approved for manufacture and widespread use on the Victorian broad gauge network . NOT Rocket science, only adds around $ 1 per sleeper to get the two sets of gauge plates/fixings for broad or standard gauge on one side of the sleeper .
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Agreed but at least we are getting some actual track maintenance. But why concrete for the down and timber for the up? That doesn't make sense?
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The up line will be converted to standard gauge at some stage.  Therefore, broad gauge only concrete sleepers will be a waste.

The "catch 22" style problem is that the Victorian Government is disillusioned with ARTC and their track management and don't want to hand them any more track.  However, it would be totally ridiculous to have one track managed by ARTC and the adjoining track managed by V/Line.

When the airport rail goes through, the plan, I believe, is to continue on as standard gauge track from the airport to Wallan or thereabouts.  That would make it sensible to have the broad gauge terminating at Wallan and being part of the Metro system.  All points north of Wallan become standard gauge only, including Shepparton, Tocumwal and Echuca.

I don't expect to see it in my lifetime but it will be a great day when it has all been done.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Given the way regauging with the same sleepers has gone in Victoria up to this point, I don’t think BG sleepers are going to be the biggest problem converting the Seymour line.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

When the airport rail goes through, the plan, I believe, is to continue on as standard gauge track from the airport to Wallan or thereabouts.
DalyWaters
Why do you think the MARL will cater for std gauge?
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Why do you think the MARL will cater for std gauge?
Lockspike

Oops, lo0oks like it has changed since the original concept.  It appears to now be part of the subruban Rail Loop.  Damn shame.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0020/333704/Victorias-Future-Rail-Network-map.jpg
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The up line will be converted to standard gauge at some stage.  Therefore, broad gauge only concrete sleepers will be a waste.

The "catch 22" style problem is that the Victorian Government is disillusioned with ARTC and their track management and don't want to hand them any more track.  However, it would be totally ridiculous to have one track managed by ARTC and the adjoining track managed by V/Line.
DalyWaters

I think there absolute truth to this and rightly so.  The ARTC management of the north east line has not been in a manner which has been helpful to passenger rail services and perhaps NSW also feels the same way?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Why do you think the MARL will cater for std gauge?

Oops, lo0oks like it has changed since the original concept.  It appears to now be part of the subruban Rail Loop.  Damn shame.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0020/333704/Victorias-Future-Rail-Network-map.jpg
DalyWaters
What's to say that SRL won't be SG, especially if it uses rolling-stock separate from the rest of the Metro network?

But yes, it'll most likely be BG at this rate, I think.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If Shepparton and Echuca go SG (assume via the North east) you may as well electrify the north east to Seymour and be done with it and give it to metro?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

If Shepparton and Echuca go SG (assume via the North east) you may as well electrify the north east to Seymour and be done with it and give it to metro?
bevans
What is your thing with electrifying to Seymour, bevans? The traffic does not demand it and will not for the forseeable future. I don't see what's so difficult to grasp about this.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The major housing development in Melbourne is proposed for that corridor.    I am thinking of making things a lot easier with a single use rolling stock which can use the MARL as well.  If we just spent the $50m on the electrification from Wallan to Seymour and be done with it then we reduce carbon emmissions and we use higher speed rolling stock like that planned for Ballarat and Geelong.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The major housing development in Melbourne is proposed for that corridor.    I am thinking of making things a lot easier with a single use rolling stock which can use the MARL as well.  If we just spent the $50m on the electrification from Wallan to Seymour and be done with it then we reduce carbon emmissions and we use higher speed rolling stock like that planned for Ballarat and Geelong.
bevans
Watergardens to Sunbury (about 15km) cost $270 million in 2012.

$50 million will barely get you a plan for electrification, let alone poles and wires. Electrifying things is expensive.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The major housing development in Melbourne is proposed for that corridor.    I am thinking of making things a lot easier with a single use rolling stock which can use the MARL as well.  If we just spent the $50m on the electrification from Wallan to Seymour and be done with it then we reduce carbon emmissions and we use higher speed rolling stock like that planned for Ballarat and Geelong.
Watergardens to Sunbury (about 15km) cost $270 million in 2012.

$50 million will barely get you a plan for electrification, let alone poles and wires. Electrifying things is expensive.
TOQ-1
Also need to allocate a significant amount of $$$ for a new/different safeworking system if the service frequency is to be increased to justify electrification. Might need to add a few more zero's onto the end of the $50m bevans.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Multi-million dollar track maintenance for V/Line
bevans
65km(say) x 2 = 130km
55000 sleepers/130km = 423/km
That's a sleeper replacement rate of 1 in 4*, which is the absolute minimum requirement to maintain gauge in timber.

IIRC the Dn has already has some concretes, so a pass at 1 in 4 will nicely strengthen that track.
On the Up, doing 1 in 4 in timber is a heavy rate of resleepering. Unless there are other factors involved, this rate indicates to me that the sleepers in the Up are in poor condition. In that situation doing 1 in 4 will leave the track only just 'tied'. This is a 'doing the minimum required' to keep the track safe** solution, it doesn't have a lasting effect.

* Assuming 1667 sleepers/km. Those with actual knowledge of this track may advise otherwise.
** In this context 'safe' means at minimal risk of spread road derailment.
  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Your calc of 1 in 4 @Lockspike looks about what I saw last week of all the waiting concrete sleepers laid along the down track between Donny and Seymour.

They looked too plain a bit of concrete for SG convertable, but then the Albury down was going too fast to be sure.

Cheers
John

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