Chinese Warships in Sydney Harbour

 
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

This is sure to raise a few eyebrows:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-03/chinese-warships-enter-sydney-harbour/11172578

Three Chinese warships have arrived in Sydney Harbour for a visit that was not publicly announced by the Government.
A People's Liberation Army frigate, an auxiliary replenishment ship, and an amphibious vessel are docking at Garden Island for a four-day stopover.
The visit comes just a week after the ABC revealed Chinese warships had recently followed the Australian Navy during a transit of the South China Sea.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the arrival of the warships had been planned for some time.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Especially since last week the chinese were firing lasers at our pilots in the south china sea.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Especially since last week the chinese were firing lasers at our pilots in the south china sea.
bevans

Don't worry.

Our military are probably recording every Chinese broadcast and radar (and sonar) transmission.
Probably photographing all the antennae and weapons.

Two can play at that game.

If they'd wanted to destroy our helicopters they had plenty of things to use rather than visible spectrum lasers.

It was an approved visit, just not publicly announced.

Peter
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
mY g0d, tHe cHiNeSe! hOw CoUlD tHeY
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

1 / in the news reports I saw the lasers were reported to have come from fishing vessels, allegedly manned, or perhaps not, by militia members , they did not come from PLA-N warships.

2 / territorial waters are 12 nautical miles (24.224 km ) from the shore lime , and the Australian Government has stated that the RAN remains in recognised international waters and currently does not approach the 12nm limit of the disputed reefs.

3 / there is nothing wrong or sinister in PLA-N ships following RAN ships in International waters ( or vice versa ).NATO and Russian warships regularly do this to each other in both the North and Baltic Seas.

Having said that , I agree it would be preferable  if the world's navies gave each other a wide berth, that would prevent any potential misunderstandings or incidents.

4 / reciprocal visits of naval vessels should be encouraged , but , they should also be publicly announced . As we have seen, a failure to do so allows some people to create a controversy or fear mongering which is both totally unwarranted , and potentially embarrasses the visiting navy , and thereby may create a problem when there is not , and should not, be one.

5 / one "expert" commentator warned the visit to Sydney was a long way off a direct route to China from the Red Sea / Horn of Africa, and therefore the Chinese "are sending a message"

NO, the PLA-N is making a reciprocal visit, ( resulting from an invite by Australia, in return for a courtesy visit to China by HMAS Melbourne in April of this year, and with the Australian Government welcoming the request from the PLA-N to visit whilst a Task Group is returning from Africa ) where it is returning from an International Anti Piracy Mission, in which both Australia and China have jointly, and together, participated in.

It should also be pointed out that the PLA has an overseas base in Djibouti ( actually close to the US base ) , and at some point, the PLA personnel stationed there will need to come home, and one of the PLA-N ships, LPD Kunlun Shan would do exactly that.

( Accoding to our ABC News, the PLA-N Task Group consists of three ships, being the Frigate Type 054A, hull no. 536  Xuchang ; LPD Type 071, hull no. 998 Kunlun Shan & Replenishment ship Type 903A , hull no. 964 Luoma Hu )

6 / And before anyone gets concerned about the Chinese LPD , just like similar USN LPDs, ( and Australia's LHDs ), it acts as both the flagship of the Task Group and is equipped with a hospital to provide humanitarian assistance, should the need arise.

7 / so, all in all, a bit of a beat up.

8 / the related issue of unresolved overlapping territorial claims in the South China Sea should have been addressed in the 1970s, if not earlier, when the issue became more widely known. Despite the recent claims by the PRC relating to the 9 Dash Line, it shoud be pointed out that the Nationalist / Kuo Ming Tang Government of China reiterated its claim to that era in the 1920s, so this claim is not restricted to the current CPC controlled PRC.

Interestingly, the Japanese Administration on Formosa ( now Taiwan ) annexed the Spratly Islands in 1938, an annexation not challenged by US Administration in the Phillipines, this being recognition of the fact that Spain had never claimed the Spratly Islands as part of the Phillipines, therefore when Spain ceded the Phillipines to the US, it excluded the Spratly Islands.

It should also be pointed out that Imperial Japan's 19th century lease of Formosa recognised Formosa as being an integral part of China , hence the reason for both Taiwan and China jointly and together claiming both the Spratly Islands, and the 9 Dash Line.

I agree with the Phillipines claim to Ayungin Shoal / Second Thomas Shoal / BRP Sierra Madre, an xUSN WW2 era LST, 108 nm ( 194km, 121m )  west of Palawan, Phillipines; on the basis that it is on the edge of the Phillipines Continental Shelf, which may imply that the remainder of the Spratly Group is not on the continental shelf, that interpretation, may however, prove to be incorrect.

Regards, Radioman.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
They were either lost, or working out a quote for Sydney Harbour
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

They were either lost, or working out a quote for Sydney Harbour
wobert
Perhaps they could put a runway on Sow and pigs.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It was an approved visit, just not publicly announced.
M636C
Just like all "Operational Matters" which are only broadcast when it's politically advantageous to do so, or get leaked (only joking Surprised  )

Libs wouldn't want 2GB, Sky or Sunrise to be outraged.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
They're just here to remind us of what a wonderful deal we'll get if we go with Huawei for 5G... not too late...
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
Great WiFi coverage:
https://m.betootaadvocate.com/headlines/sydney-residents-finally-treated-to-decent-internet-as-chinese-warships-arrive-in-harbour/
love Betoota Advocate
Dangersdan707
I remember my wife quoting a story on her FB newsfeed that was very outlandish. I asked what was the source?

She asked what do you mean? I said find the linky and have a look. The reply was Betoota.

I pi$$ed myself and said it demonstrates the reliability of news from FB without checking the actual source.

I love their weekly podcasts, they remind me the new generation of the Chaser.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I asked my colleague who speaks Wu what the Chinese writing said, he said ‘no fee internet’.

I thought Betoota might have had something a little less serious, but nonetheless funny anyway.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Of course they're sending a message;  it's 'Here's a taste of what we can do if you don't spread those cheeks wider'. We've got neither the power nor the courage to respond like trump. Mind you, the British and French will suffer more from the Chinese desire for a slow, burning revenge about the Opium Wars than Australia.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

with reference to ANC News item  "Chinese warships depart Sydney Harbour leaving an important strategic lesson" by Messrs Andrew Probyn and Andrew Greene, says , among other things, " ... according to some Coalition MPs... if the PM knew about a visiting naval delegation, as he seemed to be suggesting ( ! ) , why didn't NSW Premier Gladys Berekilian know about it, they wondered... " and " ... the Chinese task group had been conducting live fire exercises west of Australia in the South Indian Ocean..." and "...one hundred and eleven years ago, 16 American battleships painted white sailed through the same heads..."

1 / the PM stated explicitly that he knew about the visiting PLA-N Task Group visit. Such visits are sought in advance, and approval would be via the PM. I think it would be extremely unlikely that the PM would not be advised , in advance, of any foreign warship visiting Australia.

2 / However, I find it surprising for these same Coalition MPs to also allege that the NSW Premier was not made aware of this visit. One would think that notification of such visits would, as a matter of course, be passed onto the affected State Premier, especially considering that Ports are a State responsibility.

If it is correct that the NSW Premier was not advised, then questions need to be asked as to why this was not done, as not only is this a serious omission, but the lack of such advice could well seriously embarrass both the State Government and the visiting Naval ships; and the consequences to diplomatic relations could potentially be significant.

3 / Since when is any Navy warships conducting live fire exercises in international waters a cause for serious concern ? All navies, including our own RAN do this. Do these people seriously think that any Navy's ships should not do this ?

4 / Prior to US President Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet doing a world tour from 1907 to 1909, individual US Navy ships had visited Australia. The significance of the Great White Fleet was that President T. Roosevelt had ensured that the touring Fleet was large and impressive, and also ensured it received global publicity, this was quite deliberate.

By contrast, the Chinese PLA-N Task Group that visited Sydney did so whilst on a return voyage to China. It is neither a "... sending a message... " as the Great While Fleet was intentionally doing, nor was the PLA-N Task Group part of a circumnavigating fleet.

The PLA-N Task Group has a similar make up to The Australian Task Group that the RAN sent to the Anti-Piracy Mission, which is conducted by the Combined Maritime Forces involving a 33 nation naval partnership operating off the coast of Somalia and adjacent countries.

5 / Excepting Item 2 above, none of the foregoing is unusual, quite the contrary, it is what all navies, including our very own RAN do. So whilst it may be newsworthy, it is not cause for for either concern or worry.

6 / As previously stated, it would be preferable for the world's navies to keep their distance from each other ( organised Exercises excepted ), and  to give each other a wide berth so as to avoid any unintended incidents, as , depending on circumstances and participents, an unfortunate incident could have dire consequences that are outside the control of the immediate participants.

Regards, Radioman.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Radioman, the two Andrews who apparently author the work that you quote, and I have not seen would do well to understand that the ‘port’ of Garden Island is not of NSW state government responsibility.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Of course they're sending a message;  it's 'Here's a taste of what we can do if you don't spread those cheeks wider'. We've got neither the power nor the courage to respond like trump. Mind you, the British and French will suffer more from the Chinese desire for a slow, burning revenge about the Opium Wars than Australia.
billybaxter

Well here's what our own version of Donald Trump had to say Razz

Former deputy prime minister and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce has labelled China a "benevolent tyranny",
Somebody
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Of course they're sending a message;  it's 'Here's a taste of what we can do if you don't spread those cheeks wider'. We've got neither the power nor the courage to respond like trump.
billybaxter
And the fact is that our weak-as-water government is perpetually trying to figure out how they can suck up even more to the CCP. The only consolation is that the Labor Party would have been even worse.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Well here's what our own version of Donald Trump had to say Razz

Former deputy prime minister and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce has labelled China a "benevolent tyranny",
bingley hall
Please, he's nowhere near as smart as Trump. And there's nothing benevolent about the CCP.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The only consolation is that the Labor Party would have been even worse.
don_dunstan
For F sake get over it Rolling Eyes

NSW still control Sydney Harbour so it's odd the Premier didn't need to know. There seems to be a lot of that these days.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The only consolation is that the Labor Party would have been even worse.
For F sake get over it Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay
I'm as disappointed as anyone that the party the purports to represent the interests of the working people of this nation couldn't get across the line but the fact is that like the Democrats in the United States they had completely forgotten about their traditional supporter base. They can't be all things to all people - they tried to be the worker's best friend while pushing an open borders radical green agenda at the same time. People didn't buy it - especially in Queensland.

And because of their failure to present an electable opposition we now have carte blanche from the right wing of the Liberal Party who are going to run roughshod over what little rights we have left. Believe me, nobody is more disappointed than me that the Labor Party can't seem to form an effective opposition to counter the LNP, they should all be sacked after that pathetic performance.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Well here's what our own version of Donald Trump had to say Razz

Former deputy prime minister and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce has labelled China a "benevolent tyranny",
Please, he's nowhere near as smart as Trump. And there's nothing benevolent about the CCP.
don_dunstan

Trump may be shrewd, but he's not smart.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Please, he's nowhere near as smart as Trump. And there's nothing benevolent about the CCP.

Trump may be shrewd, but he's not smart.
bingley hall
He had a top-rating TV show for a dozen years, I think you'd need a substantial degree of intelligence to do that.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
He had a top-rating TV show for a dozen years, I think you'd need a substantial degree of intelligence to do that.
don_dunstan
Given the amount of absolute tripe on TV which still commands large audiences, it shows that you can feed them crap, and they'll watch.
Intelligence should not be confused with cunning.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
He had a top-rating TV show for a dozen years, I think you'd need a substantial degree of intelligence to do that.
Given the amount of absolute tripe on TV which still commands large audiences, it shows that you can feed them crap, and they'll watch.
Valvegear
Whether or not it's rubbish is beside the point: Personally I think you'd have to be pretty smart to have starred in and co-produced that TV show for over a decade - not stupid.

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