Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west
bevans

Metro west is already in planning with finance and adding extra federal money isn't going to fast track anything because the NSW government already has plans well advanced for construction starting in 2020.

As for the VIC/NSW discussion that is silly since Melbourne is only growing slightly faster and unlike Sydney your rail system is well placed to handle the growth if someone competent was in charge of the rail system. Doncaster aside you have rail almost everywhere it needs to go and a tram system.

Vic is getting plenty of federal money for the airport line ($5 billion) and the geelong fast rail ($2 billion) and yet there hasn't been a single piece of direct federal funding for our new metro lines and Victoria is complaining about too much money being spent in Sydney.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west
bevans
Name a Metro/Suburban/interurban commuter and regional passenger rail project in Sydney that was Fed funded in last 10-20 years?

Meanwhile the Vic RFR, promised hand outs for Geelong, what else.....hell you even want the Feds to fund the Airport line, something 3 other states started on their own.

Mel/Vic currently has the highest population growth, but 10 years ago it was BNE/Qld, with Syd/NSW in between. Who's to day it won't change, again!
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west

Metro west is already in planning with finance and adding extra federal money isn't going to fast track anything because the NSW government already has plans well advanced for construction starting in 2020.
simstrain
Timing won't change and basically cannot change, Sydney can only support so many major rail projects at once, with the NWRL project winding down, this workforce will become available for Metro West which is proposed to start next year which is the time-frame announced by GB.

All the article is stating is to get SCOMO to commit to the money he promised.

Note the article again states the Metrowest project is designed to provide relief for the T1.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

When did scomo promise money for metro west? Labor promised money but the libs did not.

To be honest during the recent campaigns it all looked like everybody wanted a piece of Gladys pie in NSW. Both fed and state labor promised to build something that the libs already had in planning meanwhile scomo went and got the votes that really mattered in QLD and didn't have to do much in NSW since Gladys could do that for him.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west
Name a Metro/Suburban/interurban commuter and regional passenger rail project in Sydney that was Fed funded in last 10-20 years?

Meanwhile the Vic RFR, promised hand outs for Geelong, what else.....hell you even want the Feds to fund the Airport line, something 3 other states started on their own.

Mel/Vic currently has the highest population growth, but 10 years ago it was BNE/Qld, with Syd/NSW in between. Who's to day it won't change, again!
I have no idea how you've developed this idea that NSW is a Good Little Vegemiter without its hand out for cash.

"The NSW Treasurer wants more commonwealth cash for his state's big road, rail and airport projects."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nsw-wants-roads-rail-funding-from-budget

Drawing a semantic distinction about which modes have been funded and which have not makes no sense, because ultimately a rail dollar and a road dollar have the same budget impact. If the Feds fund a road for NSW, that gives them capital to build train lines - I would have though that's fairly obvious.

Although it represents only part of the federal infrastructure funding, from 2014 to 2017 NSW had $13.9b deposited under the NPA, while Victoria had only $8.5b.

A cynic might even suggest that the federal funding is directed to smaller projects so the NSW Government gets big ribbon-cutting opportunities all to itself.

Edit: here's a source that does the sums. Look at those graphs and tell me a) NSW is "self-funded" and b) Victoria is not being dudded in favour of Queensland and WA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/fact-check-south-australia-infrastructure-funding/9537064
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/fact-check-south-australia-infrastructure-funding/9537064
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

When did scomo promise money for metro west? Labor promised money but the libs did not.

To be honest during the recent campaigns it all looked like everybody wanted a piece of Gladys pie in NSW. Both fed and state labor promised to build something that the libs already had in planning meanwhile scomo went and got the votes that really mattered in QLD and didn't have to do much in NSW since Gladys could do that for him.
simstrain
It was a similar story in Victoria.

I don't really have an issue with that though because the NSW and Vic governments are best placed to determine their infrastructure priorities. When feds try to force unwanted projects onto states, things get ugly - cf. the 2010 Metro plan in Sydney and the East West Link down here.

Dan and Gladys have more in common than they or their fanatics would care to admit.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I wonder what would those numbers look like if we went back 10 years. Also most of that expenditure is on westconnex and the airport and not on trains. Much is still being spent on roads such as the major highway upgrades.

But looking at those numbers a Victorian should be upset at Queensland's share and not NSW. It is clear they are getting a significant amount more then there population of infrastructure money and are still crying poor over cross river rail.

Those charts in that document are also horribly misleading They have an amount in millions and yet the bar doesn't match up with what is being claimed.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I wonder what would those numbers look like if we went back 10 years. Also most of that expenditure is on westconnex and the airport and not on trains. Much is still being spent on roads such as the major highway upgrades.

But looking at those numbers a Victorian should be upset at Queensland's share and not NSW. It is clear they are getting a significant amount more then there population of infrastructure money and are still crying poor over cross river rail.
simstrain
As I said, it hardly matters where the money goes, because it has the same effect on the state government's ability to fund capital projects. NSW wouldn't have been able to fund the Metro if it had been funding all those rural road projects.

And I agree with you on the second part. I wouldn't begrudge NSW a cent of what they're getting.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I wonder what would those numbers look like if we went back 10 years. Also most of that expenditure is on westconnex and the airport and not on trains. Much is still being spent on roads such as the major highway upgrades.

But looking at those numbers a Victorian should be upset at Queensland's share and not NSW. It is clear they are getting a significant amount more then there population of infrastructure money and are still crying poor over cross river rail.
As I said, it hardly matters where the money goes, because it has the same effect on the state government's ability to fund capital projects. NSW wouldn't have been able to fund the Metro if it had been funding all those rural road projects.

And I agree with you on the second part. I wouldn't begrudge NSW a cent of what they're getting.
potatoinmymouth

Those rural roads are national roads of vital importance which is why they are funded federally. Many Victorian and Qld vehicles use them to move freight or go on holidays and so that money is as important to QLD and Victorians being spent on roads in NSW as it is to NSW residents.

Northconnex is another project and when operational it will mean heavy vehicles don't have to get off a motorway in Sydney. North and westconnex also have significant tunnel sections which increases costs. Building any infrastructure in NSW especially on the east of the divide is normally more expensive because of the terrain.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This is bound to stir up the Vic/NSW funding argument when Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and more cash is going into network in Sydney than Melbourne.  

Assuming this is real and not purely designed to provoke discussion.

Push for PM to commit money to building $20b metro line to Sydney's west
Name a Metro/Suburban/interurban commuter and regional passenger rail project in Sydney that was Fed funded in last 10-20 years?

Meanwhile the Vic RFR, promised hand outs for Geelong, what else.....hell you even want the Feds to fund the Airport line, something 3 other states started on their own.

Mel/Vic currently has the highest population growth, but 10 years ago it was BNE/Qld, with Syd/NSW in between. Who's to day it won't change, again!
I have no idea how you've developed this idea that NSW is a Good Little Vegemiter without its hand out for cash.

"The NSW Treasurer wants more commonwealth cash for his state's big road, rail and airport projects."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nsw-wants-roads-rail-funding-from-budget

Drawing a semantic distinction about which modes have been funded and which have not makes no sense, because ultimately a rail dollar and a road dollar have the same budget impact. If the Feds fund a road for NSW, that gives them capital to build train lines - I would have though that's fairly obvious.

Although it represents only part of the federal infrastructure funding, from 2014 to 2017 NSW had $13.9b deposited under the NPA, while Victoria had only $8.5b.

A cynic might even suggest that the federal funding is directed to smaller projects so the NSW Government gets big ribbon-cutting opportunities all to itself.

Edit: here's a source that does the sums. Look at those graphs and tell me a) NSW is "self-funded" and b) Victoria is not being dudded in favour of Queensland and WA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/fact-check-south-australia-infrastructure-funding/9537064
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/fact-check-south-australia-infrastructure-funding/9537064
potatoinmymouth
NSW is getting about 1/3 of the money, which is fair as its roughly 1/3 the population, although the level is declining and what was spent on Suburban Rail?.

Qld is the leach because its broke, although very little is spent on rail from Feb money.

Now remember kiddies, the bulk of the Inland rail project money spent to date was actually in NSW and th ebulk of the money to be spent from next year on is in Qld. But is this project a state focused project or a National Project?

Throw HSR into this graph and it will blow most of this out of the water as 80% of the money will be spent in NSW due to the distance, terrain, size of Sydney and even branch line to the ACT.
  C3765 Junior Train Controller

They have now also decided to make the North South Rail Line a metro line instead of an extension of the South West Rail Link. The line will be from St Marys to the Western Sydney Airport and further south and has been renamed to “Sydney Metro Greater West”.

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