Adani changes to narrow gauge

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Adani has now updated their permanent jobs to 150 only.  Why on earth was there so much focus on a project that would employ so few at the end of the construction phase?

The choice of using the NG network means less rail build also.

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  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Adani has now updated their permanent jobs to 150 only.  Why on earth was there so much focus on a project that would employ so few at the end of the construction phase?

The choice of using the NG network means less rail build also.
bevans

The situation with Adani is as complex as any political football Australia has created in the last decade. The facts as they stand at the moment.

- Since the beginning of this project in 2010, Adani has already spent $3.3-billion, and that's without a hole in the ground or a railway.

- The Townsville Headquarters for Adani, opened in 2017 by Premier Annastacia Palaszcuk, already employs 150 staff, with the company committed (as an approval requirement) to employing 750 FIFO/DIDO workers from Townsville for the next thirty years, worth $90-million per annum to the city.

- Adani has owned the Abbot Point coal terminal since 2011 - after paying $1.83-billion. I can't quickly find the total number of staff currently employed there, but the port handled 27.992-million tonnes of export coal 2017/2018 and has a capacity of 50-million tonnes.

- The downsizing of the mine from 60-million tonnes to 27.5-million tonnes per annum reduces the size of the permanent and construction workforces from the numbers that were widely circulated prior to 2018. Current expectations will be a permanent mine workforce from Rockhampton and Townsville of 1500 staff (around the same as the largest Bowen Basin Mines). Construction is expected to require 1500 temporary positions and another 6500 indirect jobs from suppliers.

- 14,000 job applications have so far been received.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Adani has now updated their permanent jobs to 150 only.  Why on earth was there so much focus on a project that would employ so few at the end of the construction phase?

The choice of using the NG network means less rail build also.

The situation with Adani is as complex as any political football Australia has created in the last decade. The facts as they stand at the moment.

- Since the beginning of this project in 2010, Adani has already spent $3.3-billion, and that's without a hole in the ground or a railway.

- The Townsville Headquarters for Adani, opened in 2017 by Premier Annastacia Palaszcuk, already employs 150 staff, with the company committed (as an approval requirement) to employing 750 FIFO/DIDO workers from Townsville for the next thirty years, worth $90-million per annum to the city.

- Adani has owned the Abbot Point coal terminal since 2011 - after paying $1.83-billion. I can't quickly find the total number of staff currently employed there, but the port handled 27.992-million tonnes of export coal 2017/2018 and has a capacity of 50-million tonnes.

- The downsizing of the mine from 60-million tonnes to 27.5-million tonnes per annum reduces the size of the permanent and construction workforces from the numbers that were widely circulated prior to 2018. Current expectations will be a permanent mine workforce from Rockhampton and Townsville of 1500 staff (around the same as the largest Bowen Basin Mines). Construction is expected to require 1500 temporary positions and another 6500 indirect jobs from suppliers.

- 14,000 job applications have so far been received.
Sulla1
Grrat summary.

There occasionally comes a time when other states should back out of one states business, this is one of them.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Adani has received its final approvals this morning, construction is set to begin within the next few weeks. No word if the rail construction will get underway at the same time.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Adani has received its final approvals this morning, construction is set to begin within the next few weeks. No word if the rail construction will get underway at the same time.
Sulla1

With the amount of additional coal coming into Abbott Point can we assume there will be rail upgrades needed to make this happen in and around the port including a new yard perhaps multi user?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

There hasn't been any details released regarding increasing capacity on the Aurizon owned network. Aurizon and PN use Aurizon's Pring yard to stage for movements to the port, I'd assume Pring will need a few additional roads to cater for the Adani traffic.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There hasn't been any details released regarding increasing capacity on the Aurizon owned network. Aurizon and PN use Aurizon's Pring yard to stage for movements to the port, I'd assume Pring will need a few additional roads to cater for the Adani traffic.
Sulla1

have the cal'c on the number of trains actually required been done and are capacity upgrades required on the main line for the additional coal traffic?

Maybe SSR can apply to run the trains?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Adani will probably want to run its own trains, but it may do a deal with Aurizon if that helps to pay for additional loops or duplication. We will have to wait and see what gets announced.

Aurizon's Newlands system and infrastructure will see around a 90% increase in tonnage, so capacity increases will be required.
  GS4 Train Controller

So will that mean about 8 to 10 loaded trains to Abbott Point per day ?  ... assuming all trains go to that port.

I've been train watching on the Newlands line and there certainly some quite long periods between trains (hours at a time) , , maybe it only occurs when there is a camera around  Smile.


If there is say 10 loaded trains (very rough estimate) and 10 empties will that mean 60 to 80 or so more locos ?   We're back to the old question of what brand of locomotive.

Whatever it is it will be interesting.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Based on current export tonnages, Aurizon and PN are running on average eleven loaded trains to Abbot Point each day. Adani intends to run 120 wagon trains with three locomotives, and if production reaches 27-million tonnes, that will be seven loaded trains per day.

To haul 120 wagon trains with three locomotives, Adani will most likely need locomotives in the 3800-4600hp range, so I'd say the Progress EMD GT46CU-ACe model could be a front runner and Wabtec GE may offer the ES40ACi model used in South Africa. The less than stellar performances of PN's 88s and PHs may warn Adani off these models, but who knows. I'd say around thirty locomotives in that power range will be needed.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Based on current export tonnages, Aurizon and PN are running on average eleven loaded trains to Abbot Point each day. Adani intends to run 120 wagon trains with three locomotives, and if production reaches 27-million tonnes, that will be seven loaded trains per day.

To haul 120 wagon trains with three locomotives, Adani will most likely need locomotives in the 3800-4600hp range, so I'd say the Progress EMD GT46CU-ACe model could be a front runner and Wabtec GE may offer the ES40ACi model used in South Africa. The less than stellar performances of PN's 88s and PHs may warn Adani off these models, but who knows. I'd say around thirty locomotives in that power range will be needed.
Sulla1
Now that Adani has a green light for it's project and is going to build it's own rail link to connect with Aurizon's network perhaps the connecting line should be constructed with full height dual gauge concrete sleepers and to the same SG clearances as the heavy haul SG railways in the Pilbera with a view to eventual conversion to SG all the way to Gladstone if Adani ramps up it's production to the 60 million tonnes that was originally proposed, such a line would provide capacity for some of the other mines proposed for Central Queensland.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Adani might even struggle to get a rail operator to haul their coal:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-16/adani-snubbed-by-rail-company-as-aurizon-faces-pressure/11418900
Carnot
Can those CLs that SSR bought go onto NG?
(friday joke time guys)...
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Location: .
Funnily enough, about five years ago SSR crews were being fed the rumour by management that the business ‘Northern Longhaul Railroad’ was all but ready to go and that crews would be heading to Queensland with some yellow SSR T classes to build the standard gauge Adani line. This was was then supposed to transform into “NLR” becoming Adani’s rail operator and manager with Adani owned US Domestic locos painted in NLR colours plying the rails. Anyone from SSR’s NSW Op’s who wanted to go to Queensland and earn the big bucks only needed to apply.

That obviously didn’t happen but you never know how desperate Adani might get as it battles to get across the line.
  Sunbird Station Master

I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.
  Fatty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.
Sunbird
You must have read a different story to me as I didn't see any green left bias going on. There was the reporting of some facts though and that does tend to upset some people.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This will be likely one of the longest coal hauls in the country with multiple trains a day so if people think no one will be interested to service them, think again.

Meanwhile another coal mine was approved a few weeks back, but who would know, it wasn't a Indian company.
  Fatty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
This will be likely one of the longest coal hauls in the country with multiple trains a day so if people think no one will be interested to service them, think again.

Meanwhile another coal mine was approved a few weeks back, but who would know, it wasn't a Indian company.
RTT_Rules
I don't know how keen Aurizon will be given their ongoing issues with getting money out of Clive and their WA misadventures but I'd be surprised if they don't do it eventually. I'm not sure PN has the spare capacity in Queensland for the job.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

This will be likely one of the longest coal hauls in the country with multiple trains a day so if people think no one will be interested to service them, think again.

Meanwhile another coal mine was approved a few weeks back, but who would know, it wasn't a Indian company.
I don't know how keen Aurizon will be given their ongoing issues with getting money out of Clive and their WA misadventures but I'd be surprised if they don't do it eventually. I'm not sure PN has the spare capacity in Queensland for the job.
Fatty
I think Clive has settled with Aurizon. The various rail operators will be falling over themselves to get this lengthy haul. There are other prospective mines in the basin (which is why the Greens fought so hard against it). This opens up a new stream of revenue. The only downside is the market risk, how long will big tonnages of coal be required?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.
Sunbird

You obviously let your bias get the better of you and didn't finish reading the article. The financial institituion is named and it happens to be one of Aurizon's biggest shareholders. How could you have missed that?
  Sunbird Station Master

I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.

You obviously let your bias get the better of you and didn't finish reading the article. The financial institituion is named and it happens to be one of Aurizon's biggest shareholders. How could you have missed that?
bingley hall
I read the whole article carefully.
You don't name the institution yourself but I assume you mean UniSuper. The quote I was referring to (repeated in a headline so anyone scanning the article will see it) is "Adani does not represent a viable commercial proposition". This appears in paragraph five and is attributed to "a key Aurizon investor" the article then has six paragraphs devoted to an unrelated story about a civil matter between Adani and a contractor. Then on paragraph 12 the article starts quoting without prior context an email from Aurizon investor "UniSuper" saying they have an anti adani board and don't want the company to participate in the project (the name of the institution makes that decision a lot clearer) beyond meeting there legal requirements around open access. The three quoted paragraphs say nothing about UniSuper thinking the Adani mine is unviable.
The article has been deliberately structured this way to trick less vigilant readers into thinking the unviable quote was attributed to UniSuper.
Why did the ABC journalists play this trick? Its because they have an anti Adani agenda and want to talk the mine down.
  Sunbird Station Master

I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.
You must have read a different story to me as I didn't see any green left bias going on. There was the reporting of some facts though and that does tend to upset some people.
Fatty
Fatty apart from what I said to bringley hall the other aspect of the article that motivated me to declare it nonsense is that the meat of the story is nothing but a beat up.
The "story" is that during the previous standard guage proposal G&W were approached to tender for haulage contracts and they weren't interested.
Two things make that a non story.
1. Its obvious (but not stated) that the big players Aurizon and PN would have also been approached and would have been very interested.
2. The standard guage proposal was abandoned nearly a year ago and replaced with a new narrow guage one with different operating costs so anything that relates to the standard guage period is now irrelevant.
The article tries to infer the "snub" (exact word the ABC used) by G&W is the reason the project was forced out of desperation to adopt narrow guage.
Anyone with a knowledge of the Central Queensland coal haulage business will know that G&W was probably never in the running anyway. However most readers of the article won't know this so the ABC is able to mislead readers into thinking that they are struggling to find someone to haul the mines coal.
Why did the ABC mislead readers this way? Because they have an anti adani agenda and want to talk the mine down.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I've read the news article that carnot provided a link to and its just the usual biased green left nonsense that the ABC is renowned for. It contains nothing but quotes from environmental groups (back in the eighties they were called "greenies") and an unnamed financial institution that thinks the mine is unviable. Seriously if Adani offers enough money of course they will find a contractor to haul the coal. Anything the ABC says about the Adani coal mine should be taken with a grain of salt as they are blatantly biased against it.
You must have read a different story to me as I didn't see any green left bias going on. There was the reporting of some facts though and that does tend to upset some people.
Fatty apart from what I said to bringley hall the other aspect of the article that motivated me to declare it nonsense is that the meat of the story is nothing but a beat up.
The "story" is that during the previous standard guage proposal G&W were approached to tender for haulage contracts and they weren't interested.
Two things make that a non story.
1. Its obvious (but not stated) that the big players Aurizon and PN would have also been approached and would have been very interested.
2. The standard guage proposal was abandoned nearly a year ago and replaced with a new narrow guage one with different operating costs so anything that relates to the standard guage period is now irrelevant.
The article tries to infer the "snub" (exact word the ABC used) by G&W is the reason the project was forced out of desperation to adopt narrow guage.
Anyone with a knowledge of the Central Queensland coal haulage business will know that G&W was probably never in the running anyway. However most readers of the article won't know this so the ABC is able to mislead readers into thinking that they are struggling to find someone to haul the mines coal.
Why did the ABC mislead readers this way? Because they have an anti adani agenda and want to talk the mine down.
Sunbird
Everything has a bias, its an interesting part of literary theory. Its impossible to be unbiased in anything.
The Main reason the ABC is against this is cause they don't want us to smeg up the planet anymore. It seems the Queenslanders are more focused on wrecking there Reef rather than saving it. The science adds up
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
DD707,
Why don't you make a submission to build it as a broad gauge line?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
UniSuper is one of the best performing super funds in the country, if not the best.

Perhaps UniSuper isn't such a bad organisation to be taking advice from, after all they're probably doing it to grow their funds under management more than they are doing it for any other reason.  Perhaps they see a potential Adani deal by one of their investments as something they need to monitor more closely to make sure it doesn't impact their members bottom line?

(Disclosure am a member)

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