Adani Carmichael Approved

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Agree with it or not, Adani given the go ahead.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-13/adani-carmichael-coal-mine-approved-water-management-galilee/11203208

I suppose we will now see how many jobs are actually created.

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  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I can't say I'm overly happy about that, given the state of the climate. 1000 ongoing jobs are not the be all and end all. IMHO, coal mining and coal-fired power stations should go the way of the dodo sooner, rather than later. And I never thought I'd say that, but I can only wonder what future we're setting up for our kids.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Victoria is going to be outraged by this. The Hippies and Greens will be up in arms.
  AheadMatthewawsome Locomotive Driver

Location: Opening Train Lines
I am pretty furious.

What will happen to the bird?

Could the government find other jobs for them? Government: No.      Us: Of course!

Is coal really needed that much anymore? Government: Yes.     Us: Not really...

You want your kids to die from Climate Change? Government: NO! FOR F**K SAKES!

Do you want to fall because of Climate Change? Government: Climate Change is nothing noob.    Us: That will happen if you do not stop! *reverse card* Cool

Will they help with the polluted waterways of Sydney? Government: Maybe... Rolling EyesCool      Us: They said they would. But they never did. Now it is worse! Evil or Very Mad

Will they help the farmers? Government: Yes... Rolling Eyes     Us: The SFF party is stronger thanks to you not helping!

Does Clive Palmer really make "Australia First"? Scomo: Yes...   Billie Shorty: NO! NOW... DEATH TO YOU IF THERE IS NO TAX FOR UNIONS!
Us: Nah... Cool         Clive Palmer: AUSTRALIA WILL NOT COP YOU! BLAH BLAH BLAH!
Does Scomo even care about the kids? Government: Yes! Of course! Laughing    Us: Well then help us!

God dam it Scomo. You lost a kid. I WILL GO ON STRIKE! Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I am pretty furious.

What will happen to the bird?

Could the government find other jobs for them? Government: No.      Us: Of course!

Is coal really needed that much anymore? Government: Yes.     Us: Not really...

You want your kids to die from Climate Change? Government: NO! FOR F**K SAKES!

Do you want to fall because of Climate Change? Government: Climate Change is nothing noob.    Us: That will happen if you do not stop! *reverse card* Cool

Will they help with the polluted waterways of Sydney? Government: Maybe... Rolling EyesCool      Us: They said they would. But they never did. Now it is worse! Evil or Very Mad

Will they help the farmers? Government: Yes... Rolling Eyes     Us: The SFF party is stronger thanks to you not helping!

Does Clive Palmer really make "Australia First"? Scomo: Yes...   Billie Shorty: NO! NOW... DEATH TO YOU IF THERE IS NO TAX FOR UNIONS!
Us: Nah... Cool         Clive Palmer: AUSTRALIA WILL NOT COP YOU! BLAH BLAH BLAH!
Does Scomo even care about the kids? Government: Yes! Of course! Laughing    Us: Well then help us!

God dam it Scomo. You lost a kid. I WILL GO ON STRIKE! Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad
AheadMatthewawsome
many, Such as my self have. Most Don't Care About climate change, they just want the day off school
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
many, Such as my self have. Most Don't Care About climate change, they just want the day off school
Dangersdan707
The issue is, how can we stop this one mine in the name of climate change? We are still exporting more and more every year from the existing coal mines and continue to burn the stuff for most of our power and this will not change for at least another 15-20 years, so stopping this one is hypocritical. If we do, they will just buy the coal from somewhere else, ironically so called outraged in Vic get 725 of their power from burning coal (loose term) of lower value than this and certainly this mine is higher grade than much of what India burns and most of us drive a car every day, yet most Indians use Public transport, walk or ride to get around.

Stopping Climate change is about providing an alternative, when it exists.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
There was never really grounds for blocking Adani. Granting the mining operation will not lead to more climate change, and preventing the operation would not lead to less climate change.

The Indians want their industries operational and their lights on at night. Their energy in general will come from coal whether we sell it to them or not. Australia doesn’t have anything even remotely close to a monopoly on coal resources, we are not in a serious position to even influence global price.

When the world finally realises that nuclear is the only effective answer to reducing atmospheric CO2 we will be able to influence world markets, but not before then.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

many, Such as my self have. Most Don't Care About climate change, they just want the day off school
The issue is, how can we stop this one mine in the name of climate change? We are still exporting more and more every year from the existing coal mines and continue to burn the stuff for most of our power and this will not change for at least another 15-20 years, so stopping this one is hypocritical. If we do, they will just buy the coal from somewhere else, ironically so called outraged in Vic get 725 of their power from burning coal (loose term) of lower value than this and certainly this mine is higher grade than much of what India burns and most of us drive a car every day, yet most Indians use Public transport, walk or ride to get around.

Stopping Climate change is about providing an alternative, when it exists.
RTT_Rules
Assuming that 24 million people at the ar!!hole of the world will make any meaningful difference to the total amount of Co2 emitted by the worlds population, is nuclear not the obvious solution?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
ABC news states there are 4 additional mine applications with one larger than adani.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
To the people who claim ‘well make no difference as we’re only 25ish million people. We’re very high for C02 percapita, previously we were first for this spot. Claims of were to insignificant and small are selfish and ignorant

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-produce-the-most-pollution.html


https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10296/economics/top-co2-polluters-highest-per-capita/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/19/australia-worst-carbon-emitter-per-capita-among-major-western-nations
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
ABC news states there are 4 additional mine applications with one larger than adani.
freightgate

One proposal is actually 4 times the size of the adani project.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
ABC news states there are 4 additional mine applications with one larger than adani.

One proposal is actually 4 times the size of the adani project.
bevans
Is it the on Clive Palmer wanted to build?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I honestly think it'll all fall over and won't happen. Which would be good.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
To the people who claim ‘well make no difference as we’re only 25ish million people. We’re very high for C02 percapita, previously we were first for this spot. Claims of were to insignificant and small are selfish and ignorant

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-produce-the-most-pollution.html


https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10296/economics/top-co2-polluters-highest-per-capita/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/19/australia-worst-carbon-emitter-per-capita-among-major-western-nations
Dangersdan707
25,000,000 / 7,000,000,000 x alot is still not much at all.

The other issue frequently and all too often conveniently left off these calcs is its not about what the Gross country generates in CO2, its the Net consumption of the total output that feeds the country, regardless of the source. Take aluminium and steel,  both high CO2 production minerals for example, Australia makes far more of both than we actually use. How is this counted?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
My 2c worth on the Adani and climate change issue.  And there is hindsight here, i acknowledge.

It was wrong for 'the Left' to link the two concepts and if anything they harmed their cause by doing so.  It was wrong for 'the Right' to not highlight the issues with the project (eg financial ones, that there may not be that many jobs in this and the sketchy record of the owners) to give more credibility to their case and blunted their ideological arguments

In FNQ the people have made a tradeoff between jobs and the environment.  Their more pressing issue is that jobs don't exist, which mining provides at this point in time.  The Victorians who were driving the ALP agenda on this (due to risk of seat loss to Greens) failed to acknowledge that and come up with a viable alternative.  Having spent a month in TSV about 18 months ago now it was clear that jobs were needed.  Now I have my own (possibly controversial) opinion on TSV and that it needs to do more to create a larger small and medium business community instead of rely on the big employers like Defense, Unis, Mining and Government to provide them.  But jobs up there were nonetheless a big issue that the ALP seemed to be oblivious to, perhaps because of the Victorian dominance (in itself probably caused by overconfidence from the state landslide dominating the other ALP state divisions).

We totally need to do more about climate change as it will be an issue the world has to deal with and we have to carry our own can on this.  Carbon trading is really the only way to go, however impossible this now seems to be with the current inability for a Federal Government to raise taxes on anything.  The LNP pick a winner strategy is a strange approach for a conservative government to take an interventionist approach.  And without a Federal ICAC equivalent there is no check to make sure this money isn't squirrelled away to a crony project.

But this is a macroeconomic issue, not one that you address by targeting a particular project and making that the poster child for the cause.  Cos the cause lost out big in FNQ because of that strategy.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

To the people who claim ‘well make no difference as we’re only 25ish million people. We’re very high for C02 percapita, previously we were first for this spot. Claims of were to insignificant and small are selfish and ignorant

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-produce-the-most-pollution.html


https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10296/economics/top-co2-polluters-highest-per-capita/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/19/australia-worst-carbon-emitter-per-capita-among-major-western-nations
Dangersdan707
Who'd have thought it would get to name-calling? Any views on nuclear?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
My 2c worth on the Adani and climate change issue.  And there is hindsight here, i acknowledge.

It was wrong for 'the Left' to link the two concepts and if anything they harmed their cause by doing so.  It was wrong for 'the Right' to not highlight the issues with the project (eg financial ones, that there may not be that many jobs in this and the sketchy record of the owners) to give more credibility to their case and blunted their ideological arguments

In FNQ the people have made a tradeoff between jobs and the environment.  Their more pressing issue is that jobs don't exist, which mining provides at this point in time.  The Victorians who were driving the ALP agenda on this (due to risk of seat loss to Greens) failed to acknowledge that and come up with a viable alternative.  Having spent a month in TSV about 18 months ago now it was clear that jobs were needed.  Now I have my own (possibly controversial) opinion on TSV and that it needs to do more to create a larger small and medium business community instead of rely on the big employers like Defense, Unis, Mining and Government to provide them.  But jobs up there were nonetheless a big issue that the ALP seemed to be oblivious to, perhaps because of the Victorian dominance (in itself probably caused by overconfidence from the state landslide dominating the other ALP state divisions).

We totally need to do more about climate change as it will be an issue the world has to deal with and we have to carry our own can on this.  Carbon trading is really the only way to go, however impossible this now seems to be with the current inability for a Federal Government to raise taxes on anything.  The LNP pick a winner strategy is a strange approach for a conservative government to take an interventionist approach.  And without a Federal ICAC equivalent there is no check to make sure this money isn't squirrelled away to a crony project.

But this is a macroeconomic issue, not one that you address by targeting a particular project and making that the poster child for the cause.  Cos the cause lost out big in FNQ because of that strategy.
james.au
Tend to agree with you except on carbon trading. This is a known disaster and almost impossible to implement fairly, especially in the Australian economy. Climate Change will be addressed by implementing known viable solutions, not chasing ghosts and exporting industry while taxing the rich for driving modern clear cars and rewarding the poor for driving their older more polluting cars.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Nuclear? Totally uneconomical.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Climate Change will be addressed by implementing known viable solutions, not chasing ghosts and exporting industry while taxing the rich for driving modern clear cars and rewarding the poor for driving their older more polluting cars.
RTT_Rules
Except with this government, for example the Joyce/Taylor payments to Eastern Australian, I don't trust them to put the payment to where the viable solution is and not, just coincidentally, make the payment to a party donor or an old school mate who supports LNP interests etc.  We have no real protections at the Federal level that make sure they do the right thing with the funds we entrust to them.  And the more exposure i have to the Federal level of government, the more I don't like what i see.  NSW is better in quite a few respects, which scares me considering where NSW was a few years ago with Ibeid/Tripodi et. al.

Agreed, our carbon system wasn't perfect and all cars, trucks etc need to be included.

I think your comments about taxing the rich and rewarding the poor are flipped so assume you mean tax the poor and reward the rich, but the exact same argument can be made about GST - the poor pay more proportionally than the rich and so im not sure your point is uniquely valid to a carbon trading system.  Though the carbon price wasn't a tax if we want to be technical, and wasn't levied at individuals, rather carbon emitters who then had a direct incentive to reduce carbon which in many cases meant a reduction in cost too through finding efficiencies.  These no doubt would pass onto all in the economy.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Nuclear is totally uneconomical? Compared to what? And what economic cost are you attributing to ‘climate change’?

The FACT is nuclear energy is the best bet (forget a bet, possibly at this point the only chance we have) at making meaningful difference to CO2 output.

Nuclear has lower carbon emissions than solar, modern plants can load follow something that solar and wind certainly cannot do.

Nuclear is also relatively cheap. Certainly cheaper than Germany’s ‘Let’s spend a properly large amount of Euros, not fixing a problem, in fact just making a worse problem’ - their so called ‘Energiewende’.

Perhaps the saddest thing about Energiewende is that once the Germans realised that shutting down nuclear was a bad idea (and demolishing a 19th Century Church to mine some coal) was that rather than go back they instead chose to convince the LOWEST carbon intensive energy country in the world (France) to follow them to denuclearisation.

Hence, we now see France’s historically stable, and cheap energy prices increasing for mostly the same reason we see in Germany, and even here - inability of ‘renewables’ to be predictable and reliable.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/09/frances-nuclear-clean-energy-is-over-three-times-faster-and-cheaper-than-germanys-solar-and-wind.html?amp

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/02/05/if-saving-the-climate-requires-making-energy-so-expensive-why-is-french-electricity-so-cheap/amp/
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Illegal work already

  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Nuclear? Totally uneconomical.
allan
So says a supporter of expensive solar panels and bird mincers?   Don't make me laugh that much, it hurts.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
To the people who claim ‘well make no difference as we’re only 25ish million people. We’re very high for C02 percapita, previously we were first for this spot. Claims of were to insignificant and small are selfish and ignorant

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-produce-the-most-pollution.html


https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10296/economics/top-co2-polluters-highest-per-capita/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/19/australia-worst-carbon-emitter-per-capita-among-major-western-nations
Who'd have thought it would get to name-calling? Any views on nuclear?
fzr560


Defiantly. I am very Pro Atomic Energy, We have the world largest uranium Deposits yet we are not exploiting it. I understand the Fears of atomic bombs and ect but waste wise nuclear is very clean, we just need to plan for a disposal facility. I suggest Maralinga as we already have some crudely stored waste from the 50's that needs renewing and is far enough from any major urban or agricultural area. VERY BIG FAN
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
It was wrong for 'the Right' to not highlight the issues with the project (eg financial ones, that there may not be that many jobs in this and the sketchy record of the owners) to give more credibility to their case and blunted their ideological arguments
james.au
To add to this point - and potentially being naive Australian stooges to help get a potentially sketchy project off the ground that otherwise may not if standard processes are followed.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Nuclear? Totally uneconomical.
So says a supporter of expensive solar panels and bird mincers?   Don't make me laugh that much, it hurts.
Donald
If you are able, read the recent report from CSIRO and AEMO.

https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2018/Annual-update-finds-renewables-are-cheapest-new-build-power

It's not funny unless you misunderstand basic science.

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Subscribers: bevans, Big J, fzr560, james.au, RTT_Rules

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