What wil happen to the N-sets?

 
  goldenstone Beginner

With Velocities expected to do all services by 2022 what will happen to the Nsets? Most of them have been refurbished.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
They will be withdrawn from service.

Some may end up in the hands of heritage operators but the vast majority will probably end up meeting the same fate as any other redundant rollingstock, cut up for scrap.

2022 is probably a bit optimistic though.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
They will be withdrawn from service.

Some may end up in the hands of heritage operators but the vast majority will probably end up meeting the same fate as any other redundant rollingstock, cut up for scrap.

2022 is probably a bit optimistic though.
Gman_86
Don't forget Carriage bodies being sold off to private owners too!
  712M Chief Commissioner

If demand continues to grow particularly after service increases with the Ballarat line upgade, we may see the N-sets stick around for a while longer to cover peak hour runs. Priority would surely be placed on removing the H-sets from service which are quickly approaching 70 years of service. I can’t see loco-hauled sets disappearing until WV and Melton are sparked with HCMTs.

V/Line will still have the 19 Sprinters in service at this time which will presumably continue to be concentrated on the Seymour line to replace the remaining loco-hauled services.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

If some of them are still alive after they finish up at V/line, we might end up seeing them on BG freight to Sea Lake, Manangatang, Piangil, Deniliquin, Tocumwal, Maryvale, Long Island, and Warrnambool in 2030...
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
If some of them are still alive after they finish up at V/line, we might end up seeing them on BG freight to Sea Lake, Manangatang, Piangil, Deniliquin, Tocumwal, Maryvale, Long Island, and Warrnambool in 2030...
Carnot

Don't forget Balranald...err Moulamein and rail services should also be returned to Yarrawonga.... Smile



The N Cars were never that great. They were constructed badly IMO...next time you are near an N set, have a look along the cars above the windows and look at the warping of the steel which occurred when they were constructed. Also the 'rib' line across the roofs of several of those cars are now rusting through.

The retention toilets were never successful with the notorious stink in Summer and the wash basins are pathetic to wash hands under...assuming the tap gives you enough water to wash your hands under...then there's the pathetic hand dryers. Also, along the Swan Hill line in particular the dust comes through under the doors and ends up all through the vestibule as a thick layer of mallee coloured dust and sand.

The drawbars and couplers are very slack and they make for rough starts and stops if the driver has no idea how to do stretch braking and the bogies total cr@p riding quality compared to the Commonwealth bogies under the old Z cars which are normally a part of an N set.

The N cars will not be missed by me.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

If demand continues to grow particularly after service increases with the Ballarat line upgade, we may see the N-sets stick around for a while longer to cover peak hour runs. Priority would surely be placed on removing the H-sets from service which are quickly approaching 70 years of service. I can’t see loco-hauled sets disappearing until WV and Melton are sparked with HCMTs.

V/Line will still have the 19 Sprinters in service at this time which will presumably continue to be concentrated on the Seymour line to replace the remaining loco-hauled services.
712M
The H sets have greater carrying capacity and all are still in good condition only run low kms as 2 commuter trips a day .
So they will be around for a while yet on Commuter peak runs to  Geelong, Melton, The Marsh, Seymour and in due course Wallan will need some peak shorts too .

The N cars will go first well before the H cars .  N sets are lower capacity and too slow load / unloading with the narrow doors, not good cars on heavily patronized commuter runs .
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
gippslander
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.
Dangersdan707
N set aircons in summer are asthmatic.... And the 3+2 seating in economy sucks.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.
Dangersdan707

The cars that make up the Overland, whilst nearly twice the age of the N cars, were built to a higher quality at Islington workshops and they've had a FAR more expensive interior refit which has made the toilets wheelchair accessible and the newer seating is still in good condition.

The cars ride smoother than N cars due to having far better bogies.

The aircon works fine due to having a power van instead of head end power from the loco.

Mike.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.

The cars that make up the Overland, whilst nearly twice the age of the N cars, were built to a higher quality at Islington workshops and they've had a FAR more expensive interior refit which has made the toilets wheelchair accessible and the newer seating is still in good condition.

The cars ride smoother than N cars due to having far better bogies.

The aircon works fine due to having a power van instead of head end power from the loco.

Mike.
The Vinelander
The N Cars (and H Cars) are symptomatic of the absolute abomination that is Victorian Rolling Stock Policy and V/Line. A forward thinking network would have all of those rolling mausoleums scrapped. Again I will say it, 70 x 3 v/locities in 15 years an absolute travesty. I  would not be surprised if the State Government decided to dispense with V/locities for the Albury corridor and simply carried out C6 rebuilds for Old locos and N Type Carriages.

Michael
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
You may not be surprised Michael, but notwithstanding the latest attempts by ARTC to sort out the NE...it will still be happening and everyone aside from ARTC will have their fingers crossed the new cars can cope with the probable further deterioration of the track.

It's actually 11 years if you count the lost years of the Baillieu/Napthine government.

Mike.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.

The cars that make up the Overland, whilst nearly twice the age of the N cars, were built to a higher quality at Islington workshops and they've had a FAR more expensive interior refit which has made the toilets wheelchair accessible and the newer seating is still in good condition.

The cars ride smoother than N cars due to having far better bogies.

The aircon works fine due to having a power van instead of head end power from the loco.

Mike.
The N Cars (and H Cars) are symptomatic of the absolute abomination that is Victorian Rolling Stock Policy and V/Line. A forward thinking network would have all of those rolling mausoleums scrapped. Again I will say it, 70 x 3 v/locities in 15 years an absolute travesty. I  would not be surprised if the State Government decided to dispense with V/locities for the Albury corridor and simply carried out C6 rebuilds for Old locos and N Type Carriages.

Michael
mejhammers1
I think it is worth saying this .
        The N - sets and the H sets along with the P , N and A class locos at least represented a definite decision by the Govt of the day that Victoria would retain a regional rail network
         The decision could well have gone the other way ..
          The state owes the decision makers of the time a debt of gratitude ..
         Compromises were made in design and money was tight . The H series in particular and loco rebuilds instead of new builds all round were symptomatic of this as well . However the result was that Victoria retained the basis of a comprehensive and viable regional network which is the basis of what exists today .
          I hope that examples of both the N and H sets are retained in preservation as an acknowledgement of this .
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, VIC
Only loosely related to this thread;

Back in the final years of Albury line broad gauge trains (and I assume standard on at least the other long-distance lines at that time), ran with almost the almost invariable consist of ACN, BRN, BN then a fourth car (Car D, the final car each set at that time) which was different. To get from the vestibule into the seating area, they were accessed by a manually operated door with a handle - while the rest where the orange-button power sliding doors still seen on the N-sets today. The door was also on an angle as opposed to flush with the dimensions of the carriage. Otherwise, from memory, they were identical to a BN from a passengers perspective.

Can anyone tell me what these cars were coded and why the difference? Was it an N or some other carriage type appended into the N set? What happened with the makeup of these sets?
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Only loosely related to this thread;

Back in the final years of Albury line broad gauge trains (and I assume standard on at least the other long-distance lines at that time), ran with almost the almost invariable consist of ACN, BRN, BN then a fourth car (Car D, the final car each set at that time) which was different. To get from the vestibule into the seating area, they were accessed by a manually operated door with a handle - while the rest where the orange-button power sliding doors still seen on the N-sets today. The door was also on an angle as opposed to flush with the dimensions of the carriage. Otherwise, from memory, they were identical to a BN from a passengers perspective.

Can anyone tell me what these cars were coded and why the difference? Was it an N or some other carriage type appended into the N set? What happened with the makeup of these sets?
Contrillion
Probably thinking of a BZN?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_Z_type_carriage
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, VIC
Only loosely related to this thread;

Back in the final years of Albury line broad gauge trains (and I assume standard on at least the other long-distance lines at that time), ran with almost the almost invariable consist of ACN, BRN, BN then a fourth car (Car D, the final car each set at that time) which was different. To get from the vestibule into the seating area, they were accessed by a manually operated door with a handle - while the rest where the orange-button power sliding doors still seen on the N-sets today. The door was also on an angle as opposed to flush with the dimensions of the carriage. Otherwise, from memory, they were identical to a BN from a passengers perspective.

Can anyone tell me what these cars were coded and why the difference? Was it an N or some other carriage type appended into the N set? What happened with the makeup of these sets?
Probably thinking of a BZN?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_Z_type_carriage
jakar
Highly likely that's them. Thank you.

According to VicSig, all of the BG N-sets still have a BZN in the consist. It's rare for me to travel on one these days (with only a handful per day on my line) so I guess I never got the chance to notice one since then.

More on topic to this thread, how will the N-sets be made up when the Zs are gone? How long are they expected to stick around? I understand a few years ago they were taken off for some time owing cracked bogie issues.
  stooge spark Train Controller

The N sets are life expired cars no longer fit for purpose. Apart from 1st class they are uncomfortable, overheated in winter - a sauna in Summer. The only thing missed in the V/Locity is the snack bar and the 1st class option. Unfortunately, those features don't look being part of the future - along with carriage of bicycles.
I've Heard People disagree. GSR then would be even more expired.
N set aircons in summer are asthmatic.... And the 3+2 seating in economy sucks.
speedemon08
At least there's more justification to go up to First Class because of that design choice, unlike the XPTs.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The aircon works fine due to having a power van instead of head end power from the loco.
The Vinelander
The source of electricity should make no difference to the aircons operation, whether it be from HEP, power van, or onboard AGS.

The N sets have been cycled through Bendigo workshops getting new or refurbished heating/cooling systems which made a big difference to cooling over last summer. I haven't been in one on a cold day so I can't comment on the heating side of things.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

IIRC correctly there is something like 11 - 12  BZN cars and 4  BTN  cars each of which have a large disabled whhelcahir accessible toilet and dedicated floor space for two wheelchairs . Also BZN and  BTN cars have widened accessible doorways at one end of the car on both sides.  Each of the 14  bg N sets is supposed to have a BZN or  BTN car in its consist to provide the required by law 2 wheelchair spaces plus an accessible toilet .  As long as the N sets are still around say up to 5 years then the  BZN and BTN cars will too to meet the legal DDA requirement .

The 5 x 4 car sg sets each have a BDN car which provides wider access doors, two wheelcahir spaces and an accessible toilet .

The performance of the a/c in the N and Z cars should be the same whether the HEP source is from the loco or a powervan .

On sg two HEP sources are available powervan or from loco.

On bg two HEP  sources  from  loco or underfloor DA  sets, sometimes also from PH powervans .
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The aircon works fine due to having a power van instead of head end power from the loco.
The source of electricity should make no difference to the aircons operation, whether it be from HEP, power van, or onboard AGS.

The N sets have been cycled through Bendigo workshops getting new or refurbished heating/cooling systems which made a big difference to cooling over last summer. I haven't been in one on a cold day so I can't comment on the heating side of things.
jakar

It's not so much the source of the electricity I was referring to, rather the occasional reliability issues of HEP compared to dragging along a power van.

Mike.
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, VIC
This morning's 0736 Geelong-Southern Cross (the scheduled H set run) was replaced with the N set that normally runs the 0625 Shepparton-Southern Cross service.

Anyone know what was the reason for the change?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Probably a combination of the incident on the Geelong line yesterday afternoon and evening works on the Seymour line meaning some trains were out of place?
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: at sunbury on a V/line service into melbourne, waiting for thousands of impatient people to get on
I hope they don't retire the N-Sets at least until they have managed to extend the range of the Long-Haul V/Lo's
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The source of electricity should make no difference to the aircons operation, whether it be from HEP, power van, or onboard AGS.
"jakar"
That assumes that those power sources are all equally capable of providing enough volts and amps at the correct frequency. Are they?

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