Ad Met goings on -

 
  Heath Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I am glad the government have cancelled that money wasting and silly port dock branch train extension.

The funds saved should instead be used to increase the frequency of the Outer Harbor line to every 15 minutes all day every day of the week.

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  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The government doesn’t need money for a 15 minute frequency. The LINE needs the patronage to justify it, sadly, and endless line of half fare (or no fare) paying gopher drivers just isn’t going to justify it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It now seems that the new Port Dock Station extentsion is shelved due to costs.
DJPeters
Good - why not use the dock at Ethelton station that's already there?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It now seems that the new Port Dock Station extentsion is shelved due to costs.
Good - why not use the dock at Ethelton station that's already there?
don_dunstan
That would be Glanville station rather than Ethelton, and if you at the current timetable you will find that it is already used to turn around a number of peak extras every weekday.

You're missing the point though. The object of the project was not to increase services and find somewhere to turn them around (if it was, they would have simply used Glanville) but to serve the centre of Port Adelaide.
  Heath Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
The government doesn’t need money for a 15 minute frequency. The LINE needs the patronage to justify it, sadly, and endless line of half fare (or no fare) paying gopher drivers just isn’t going to justify it.
Aaron
I use the outer harbor line on weekends sometimes and even when running at its current 30 minute frequency, using a 2 car consist, each train is at least 1 half to 1 third full all day and into the evening as well. Therefore the line could easily support a 15 minute frequency with the associated patronage growth a frequency increase brings as well.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The Hindmarsh Island Bridge might be many things, but one of things was not ‘done on the cheap’.

It’s a two lane bridge, with a pedestrian walkway, how much land do you think they should have acquired?
Enough land to have made it long enough so it doesn't look a camels hump. It's ugly AF.
mawsonboii
I don't know where the extra land would have come from on the Goolwa side, and all the land on the island side would have been in government ownership.

There was a need to keep the existing ferry services running during bridge construction so any bridge approach on the island side had to take this into account.

There is a reason the navigation span is so far above the water, or rather many, reasons: yachts.

Obviously you haven't seen Hobart's Tasman Bridge which has similarly steep approaches to the central navigation span, and given that bridge a similar appearance.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

The government doesn’t need money for a 15 minute frequency. The LINE needs the patronage to justify it, sadly, and endless line of half fare (or no fare) paying gopher drivers just isn’t going to justify it.
Aaron
The thing is though Aaron that one day in the future you might be one of those non paying people on a gopher etc so saying such things is akin to cutting your own throat so to speak. Anyone can have mobility problems though at any age but I do have to admit there are some people that should not be on gophers or such like and use them for excuses of cheap or no fares, but it would be a mighty brave person that decide to check it out on a train etc.

Also I have a friend in gopher or electric wheelchair and he can get up and walk but not far so again look out for your old age because when it arrives, it can arrive with a bang in a lot of cases.
  Heath Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
The government doesn’t need money for a 15 minute frequency. The LINE needs the patronage to justify it, sadly, and endless line of half fare (or no fare) paying gopher drivers just isn’t going to justify it.
Aaron
Sorry to derail the thread, but just out of curiosity, Aaron why do you have the university of Adelaide logo as your forum avatar?
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

The Hindmarsh Island Bridge might be many things, but one of things was not ‘done on the cheap’.

It’s a two lane bridge, with a pedestrian walkway, how much land do you think they should have acquired?
Enough land to have made it long enough so it doesn't look a camels hump. It's ugly AF.
I don't know where the extra land would have come from on the Goolwa side, and all the land on the island side would have been in government ownership.

There was a need to keep the existing ferry services running during bridge construction so any bridge approach on the island side had to take this into account.

There is a reason the navigation span is so far above the water, or rather many, reasons: yachts.

Obviously you haven't seen Hobart's Tasman Bridge which has similarly steep approaches to the central navigation span, and given that bridge a similar appearance.
kipioneer
If the built a longer bridge it wouldn't have appeared so steep.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

As for Port Dock, build it and a new bus interchange and close the outer harbour line beyond Port Adelaide.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Flinders Link happenings:

A buffer stop has been installed on the track towards the end of the Clovelly Park station, and, presumably, the Allawoona Ave crossing deactivated.

A fence has been erected around the Tonsley station and the pedestrian crossing on the Adelaide end closed.

Excavations have commenced on the Flinders side of South Road.   Quite an amount has been removed.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

As for Port Dock, build it and a new bus interchange and close the outer harbour line beyond Port Adelaide.
mawsonboii
Are you really Dinkum about that get on a train on that part of the line while an event like football is being played in Adelaide you would be lucky to get on the train, buses would never be able to cope with those kinds of crowds and even if the Outer Harbor was converted to tram it still would not cope. Also what about students going to school a lot use the train that is there now cut out the service and parents would have to drive them to school.

The proposed Port Dock station is in the middle of no where really at the moment and it is unlikely to change anytime soon, it could be fifty years or more even before any redevelopment East of the current NRM property is done, all that is there now is industries or wool store buildings that are being leased out in sections to companies. Yep close down all these industries no matter how big or small and replace it with housing, when all are out of work who can then afford the housing there. Sure one development is planned to go ahead but then so to was Newport Quays there and what happened to that, that is right it went belly up and there are still part complete buildings standing there that are a worse eyesore than what was there to start with.

You cannot really think if you build it they will come, if you do you are a fool really, a lot of things here have been done this way and fallen by the roadside over the years. You need something to attract people to a place to live because they will want to live there the rest of their lives, not 5 minutes and move on. Although some might as an investment.

Children need parks, schools and such like but a railway station at Port Dock will not take you to any close by schools or parks. You might go past a few on the way but not go close enough to really worry about. The nearest railway station to a school would be Alberton and that might also go for a park as well. Yes at the moment the old railway yard beyond the South Australian Aviation Museum is a park till it is sold off and developed into housing or industry. But you would have to gasp, horror have to walk to that or drive.

Also the only place you can go is into Adelaide from Port Dock but what about all those that take the train to the current Port Adelaide station to do their shopping from the Le Fevere Peninsula, I know of several that use it now. The new station would be useless to them more so if you get rid of the track to Outer Harbor. All it would do if you cut off the train service from Port Adelaide to Outer Harbor would to overload the buses that run there. So all it would actually do is make more people drive to places rather than use overcrowded buses. So really that idea is defeating the purpose, we need more on PT and less people driving their own cars.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

As for Port Dock, build it and a new bus interchange and close the outer harbour line beyond Port Adelaide.
Are you really Dinkum about that get on a train on that part of the line while an event like football is being played in Adelaide you would be lucky to get on the train, buses would never be able to cope with those kinds of crowds and even if the Outer Harbor was converted to tram it still would not cope. Also what about students going to school a lot use the train that is there now cut out the service and parents would have to drive them to school.

The proposed Port Dock station is in the middle of no where really at the moment and it is unlikely to change anytime soon, it could be fifty years or more even before any redevelopment East of the current NRM property is done, all that is there now is industries or wool store buildings that are being leased out in sections to companies. Yep close down all these industries no matter how big or small and replace it with housing, when all are out of work who can then afford the housing there. Sure one development is planned to go ahead but then so to was Newport Quays there and what happened to that, that is right it went belly up and there are still part complete buildings standing there that are a worse eyesore than what was there to start with.

You cannot really think if you build it they will come, if you do you are a fool really, a lot of things here have been done this way and fallen by the roadside over the years. You need something to attract people to a place to live because they will want to live there the rest of their lives, not 5 minutes and move on. Although some might as an investment.

Children need parks, schools and such like but a railway station at Port Dock will not take you to any close by schools or parks. You might go past a few on the way but not go close enough to really worry about. The nearest railway station to a school would be Alberton and that might also go for a park as well. Yes at the moment the old railway yard beyond the South Australian Aviation Museum is a park till it is sold off and developed into housing or industry. But you would have to gasp, horror have to walk to that or drive.

Also the only place you can go is into Adelaide from Port Dock but what about all those that take the train to the current Port Adelaide station to do their shopping from the Le Fevere Peninsula, I know of several that use it now. The new station would be useless to them more so if you get rid of the track to Outer Harbor. All it would do if you cut off the train service from Port Adelaide to Outer Harbor would to overload the buses that run there. So all it would actually do is make more people drive to places rather than use overcrowded buses. So really that idea is defeating the purpose, we need more on PT and less people driving their own cars.
DJPeters
I use to live near Port Adelaide and I have just how bad public transport is there, There as bus services that are becoming more and more limited.

For decades they have proposed light rail or busses to replace the train and nothing happens. a Train Service to Port Dock I would assume would be very limited and probably peak time services only.

They need to reinstate the old 333/334/336 services and get rid of the 117/157 services that have made Port Adelaide quite hard to get to for some people (157 in particular)
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

What the whole PT system needs in Adelaide is a giant overhaul of all routes, rail, tram and bus competing on some routes is not good at all so something needs to be done. Buses going through the city CBD are another problem as well too many have to go up King William Street to get to places. Also bus services should feed the rail lines not compete with them. It would mean changing the publics view of what is wanted and being put in but it probably would be for the better. Also some bus routes are still following ex 1950's era tram services the 254 bus is one such. It goes through parts of North Adelaide a lot would not even know existed actually. But a local bus service for Adelaide and North Adelaide would be preferable and eliminate a lot of late running when buses are caught in traffic etc in the CBD area. Adelaide Metro need to think outside the Adelaide CBD more as there are too many ways of getting to some places in the CBD itself, it actually might be better to build a single bus type station in the city just for Adelaide Metro buses and the rest could be done by a city bus service or services to get around Adelaide from there.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

What the whole PT system needs in Adelaide is a giant overhaul of all routes, rail, tram and bus competing on some routes is not good at all so something needs to be done. Buses going through the city CBD are another problem as well too many have to go up King William Street to get to places. Also bus services should feed the rail lines not compete with them. It would mean changing the publics view of what is wanted and being put in but it probably would be for the better. Also some bus routes are still following ex 1950's era tram services the 254 bus is one such. It goes through parts of North Adelaide a lot would not even know existed actually. But a local bus service for Adelaide and North Adelaide would be preferable and eliminate a lot of late running when buses are caught in traffic etc in the CBD area. Adelaide Metro need to think outside the Adelaide CBD more as there are too many ways of getting to some places in the CBD itself, it actually might be better to build a single bus type station in the city just for Adelaide Metro buses and the rest could be done by a city bus service or services to get around Adelaide from there.
DJPeters
They did, in the late 80's early 90's they cut a lot of services from running through the CBD, for example, the 123 bus service use to run from Outer Harbor to the CBD and beyond (I assume) via Port Adelaide and West Lakes.

They changed it to the 333, 334 and 336, which ran from Outer Harbor to Westlakes via Port Adelaide, you'd connect to city busses at Port Adelaide or Westlakes or connect to the train at Glanville or Ethelton. In the mid 2000's they went back to running busses through the city with East-West, North-South services.

The 333 remained running from Outer Harbor to Port Adelaide but the 334 ceased to run and the 336 was replaced with the 117, the 157 replaced the 333 from Westlakes to Outer Harbor but doesn't go through Port Adelaide.

Although this meant new go zones and more connections to the city it meant more busses in the city.

Busses also ran from Port Adelaide to Arndale without running to the city, you'd connect at Arndale for a connecting bus to the city.

There where also TL service (translink or something) that ran from Westlakes to the city, Port Adelaide via Arndale to the City.


I've recently moved to the North Eastern Suburbs and I was shocked at just how many bus services wind through the Para Hills region. 225, 229, 500, 502, 503, 506, 560, 565. And although they all have a different destination they all intertwine or cross one another multiple times.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

What the whole PT system needs in Adelaide is a giant overhaul of all routes, rail, tram and bus competing on some routes is not good at all so something needs to be done. Buses going through the city CBD are another problem as well too many have to go up King William Street to get to places. Also bus services should feed the rail lines not compete with them. It would mean changing the publics view of what is wanted and being put in but it probably would be for the better. Also some bus routes are still following ex 1950's era tram services the 254 bus is one such. It goes through parts of North Adelaide a lot would not even know existed actually. But a local bus service for Adelaide and North Adelaide would be preferable and eliminate a lot of late running when buses are caught in traffic etc in the CBD area. Adelaide Metro need to think outside the Adelaide CBD more as there are too many ways of getting to some places in the CBD itself, it actually might be better to build a single bus type station in the city just for Adelaide Metro buses and the rest could be done by a city bus service or services to get around Adelaide from there.
I've recently moved to the North Eastern Suburbs and I was shocked at just how many bus services wind through the Para Hills region. 225, 229, 500, 502, 503, 506, 560, 565. And although they all have a different destination they all intertwine or cross one another multiple times.
mawsonboii
One reason there alone to have a rethink on some services while it might inconvenience a few it might be better and quicker to get rid of services like this though.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

What the whole PT system needs in Adelaide is a giant overhaul of all routes, rail, tram and bus competing on some routes is not good at all so something needs to be done. Buses going through the city CBD are another problem as well too many have to go up King William Street to get to places. Also bus services should feed the rail lines not compete with them. It would mean changing the publics view of what is wanted and being put in but it probably would be for the better. Also some bus routes are still following ex 1950's era tram services the 254 bus is one such. It goes through parts of North Adelaide a lot would not even know existed actually. But a local bus service for Adelaide and North Adelaide would be preferable and eliminate a lot of late running when buses are caught in traffic etc in the CBD area. Adelaide Metro need to think outside the Adelaide CBD more as there are too many ways of getting to some places in the CBD itself, it actually might be better to build a single bus type station in the city just for Adelaide Metro buses and the rest could be done by a city bus service or services to get around Adelaide from there.
I've recently moved to the North Eastern Suburbs and I was shocked at just how many bus services wind through the Para Hills region. 225, 229, 500, 502, 503, 506, 560, 565. And although they all have a different destination they all intertwine or cross one another multiple times.
One reason there alone to have a rethink on some services while it might inconvenience a few it might be better and quicker to get rid of services like this though.
DJPeters
I agree. Some bus routes are so long and end up running late due to traffic. Run multiple feeder services to a destination then run 1 bus every 10 - 15 minutes to the CBD. Have bus services connect with trains/trams where possible. If Trains are becoming crowded, add more services or extend the length of the train.
  CPH8 Locomotive Fireman

That is because Para Hills is the centre of the universe because of all the Poms living there! As an Australian born I was in the minority
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
The current PT budget is prohibitive towards any real increase with services. After hours, there is only a skeleton network, with poorly built uncomfortable buses forming a very large percentage of services.

The 157 is questionable, as the patronage is unusually low, even at busy times (exc a few peak runs), but it does serve as a feeder from Port Rd and from West Lakes to Largs (essentially a 155 that turns into a 357). The 117 seems to well used by older patrons between West Lakes and Port during the day, and we cannot rely on just a train service to serve an entire region where folks are living several kms away.


It is absurd enough that there is literally nothing operating between the vicinity of Grange and Ethelton stations after hours, excluding the H30 which only goes a short distance to West Lakes, and I don't think scrapping more services will do anything to improve the network.


It costs upwards of around $100 to do a 333 round trip service after hours. But at the same time it would be beneficial to those residing in the area. It is less of a nuisance than walking up those lengthy ramps at the highly outdated Port Adelaide station, and catching an ugly 3000 with those near endless announcements.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

That is because Para Hills is the centre of the universe because of all the Poms living there! As an Australian born I was in the minority
CPH8
LOL. Lot's of Italians as well.
I think it's because there are a lot of main arterial roads running through there from TTP to Salisbury and Elizabeth. but the way they wind through the streets is brilliant. one bus turns right whilst another turns left and another comes out and continues down where the other two would have gone if they didn't turn off lol.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

The current PT budget is prohibitive towards any real increase with services. After hours, there is only a skeleton network, with poorly built uncomfortable buses forming a very large percentage of services.

The 157 is questionable, as the patronage is unusually low, even at busy times (exc a few peak runs), but it does serve as a feeder from Port Rd and from West Lakes to Largs (essentially a 155 that turns into a 357). The 117 seems to well used by older patrons between West Lakes and Port during the day, and we cannot rely on just a train service to serve an entire region where folks are living several kms away.


It is absurd enough that there is literally nothing operating between the vicinity of Grange and Ethelton stations after hours, excluding the H30 which only goes a short distance to West Lakes, and I don't think scrapping more services will do anything to improve the network.


It costs upwards of around $100 to do a 333 round trip service after hours. But at the same time it would be beneficial to those residing in the area. It is less of a nuisance than walking up those lengthy ramps at the highly outdated Port Adelaide station, and catching an ugly 3000 with those near endless announcements.
ARG706
before the 117/157 came along it was pretty much feeder services. 333/334/336 from Outer Harbor to Westlakes. These services where very popular and they connected everything from Outer Harbor to Westlakes and Port Adelaide together. They connected with Trains if you wanted/needed to go to the city. You'd change for the train at Glanville or Ethelton, they had the best connections and interchanges, with a short wait for the train or bus.

The 333 ran through Semaphore Park connecting everyone to in that area to Port Adelaide, replacing it with the 157 meant people could no longer get to Port Adelaide without having to go to either Westlakes or Semaphore and change to another bus. Given that there is a large aged population in that are it made it very hard for pensioners. they ran the 352/353 every two hours (an hour in between) but it still made it impossible for people to get to Port Adelaide and back easily. you'd rarely see a soul on those routes which is why they got rid of them

they cut the 333 services even further this year because of low patronage, they have low patronage because a decade ago they cut the route in half. culling half the people who used the service.

recently the 224 from Elizabeth to the City via Salisbury and Mawson Lakes became a feeder service from Mawson Lakes to Elizabeth (running to the city in peak times) the 224 ran at few months ahead of the 222, they pretty much followed each other from Mawson Interchange to the City, both services where not needed. This is an example of when it works.

I wonder how many people catch the M44 in Golden Grove and go all the way to Marion and vice versa. the route takes 1 hour and 21 minutes. There are 12 busses running that route (to GG from Marion and from Marion to GG) in the time it takes 1 bus to complete the route. 8 busses an hour running one service. seems extreme. then you have the J1/J2 following closely behind from TTP to the City
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

Just what we need... Because this area just doesn't have enough bus routes......................

https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements/Service-Updates/Have-your-say-Wynn-Vale-Drive-proposed-bus-route
  Heath Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
LOL. Lot's of Italians as well.
I think it's because there are a lot of main arterial roads running through there from TTP to Salisbury and Elizabeth. but the way they wind through the streets is brilliant. one bus turns right whilst another turns left and another comes out and continues down where the other two would have gone if they didn't turn off lol.
mawsonboii
Having ventured out to the north eastern suburbs every so often for football umpiring duties, i cant help but be surprised at how many buses seem to twist and turn through every side street on seemingly endless circuitous routes, linking Paradise, TTP, Golden Grove, Ingle farm, etc. No wonder why bus drivers tell me about their shoulder problems, due to the constant spinning of the steering wheel, and they tell me about their sore feet, due to the constant leap frogging between pedals. If we did the smart thing and rationalized a few of the excessive bus routes out that way, all the media would whip up a frenzy about how poor old Beryl now needs to walk another ten minutes to catch the bus in potentially searing heat and driving rain and how its a national disgrace the way we trap lonely old ladies in their homes, etc, etc.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Fireman

LOL. Lot's of Italians as well.
I think it's because there are a lot of main arterial roads running through there from TTP to Salisbury and Elizabeth. but the way they wind through the streets is brilliant. one bus turns right whilst another turns left and another comes out and continues down where the other two would have gone if they didn't turn off lol.
Having ventured out to the north eastern suburbs every so often for football umpiring duties, i cant help but be surprised at how many buses seem to twist and turn through every side street on seemingly endless circuitous routes, linking Paradise, TTP, Golden Grove, Ingle farm, etc. No wonder why bus drivers tell me about their shoulder problems, due to the constant spinning of the steering wheel, and they tell me about their sore feet, due to the constant leap frogging between pedals. If we did the smart thing and rationalized a few of the excessive bus routes out that way, all the media would whip up a frenzy about how poor old Beryl now needs to walk another ten minutes to catch the bus in potentially searing heat and driving rain and how its a national disgrace the way we trap lonely old ladies in their homes, etc, etc.
Heath
Exactly. I know each bus route goes to a different location but with the way they all twist around each other, maybe it's time to look at the routes and stream line them so they aren't all over lapping or crossing each other.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
before the 117/157 came along it was pretty much feeder services. 333/334/336 from Outer Harbor to Westlakes. These services where very popular and they connected everything from Outer Harbor to Westlakes and Port Adelaide together. They connected with Trains if you wanted/needed to go to the city. You'd change for the train at Glanville or Ethelton, they had the best connections and interchanges, with a short wait for the train or bus.

The 333 ran through Semaphore Park connecting everyone to in that area to Port Adelaide, replacing it with the 157 meant people could no longer get to Port Adelaide without having to go to either Westlakes or Semaphore and change to another bus. Given that there is a large aged population in that are it made it very hard for pensioners. they ran the 352/353 every two hours (an hour in between) but it still made it impossible for people to get to Port Adelaide and back easily. you'd rarely see a soul on those routes which is why they got rid of them

they cut the 333 services even further this year because of low patronage, they have low patronage because a decade ago they cut the route in half. culling half the people who used the service.

recently the 224 from Elizabeth to the City via Salisbury and Mawson Lakes became a feeder service from Mawson Lakes to Elizabeth (running to the city in peak times) the 224 ran at few months ahead of the 222, they pretty much followed each other from Mawson Interchange to the City, both services where not needed. This is an example of when it works.

I wonder how many people catch the M44 in Golden Grove and go all the way to Marion and vice versa. the route takes 1 hour and 21 minutes. There are 12 busses running that route (to GG from Marion and from Marion to GG) in the time it takes 1 bus to complete the route. 8 busses an hour running one service. seems extreme. then you have the J1/J2 following closely behind from TTP to the City
mawsonboii

I can't imagine even 15 passengers being on these feeders in inter-peak now. The main problem is not so much peak services, but the coverage of areas after hours (after 6PM, weekends etc). Some Elizabeth East and Hillbank residents have to walk over a kilometre through rugged terrain to access a service that doesn't even serve Elizabeth centre or Salisbury.

If you live adjacent to Military Rd between Trimmer Parade and Military Rd, there are no services at all at night or on weekends. It becomes the same north of Military Rd after about 9:45PM on weekdays due to the train being the only option at Ethelton. Those on Bartley Tce etc are forced to use a car. PT is supposed to be about reducing car traffic, yet the lack of services make it impractical to use at times. I don't even understand this proposed 566 route, since the Libs are passionately against increasing services.

The 224 duplicating the 222 is admittedly a waste of resources. It is equivalent to the 560 running almost parallel to the 224 for all those years (between Salisbury and Elizabeth)which I've mentioned somewhere. But it would be nice if the dosh used to run these canceled services would be spent increasing frequencies elsewhere instead of it funding a 3 month overseas holiday for some rich pollie!

The 'M44' was previously the 544 (east), and 243 (west). Labor made a mess of the network by introducing alpha numeric route names in which some were through linked. For some time, you couldn't even tell whether an 'H30' was express of all stops by just looking at the number. There are also some ex Brisbane Volgren buses which cannot even show the alpha numeric destos clearly, since they were programmed to display numbers.

But I heard from an internal source that it is supposedly more efficient having buses continue on through the CBD instead of terminating. There are enough O'bahn buses to cover these routes, so it isn't really much of a problem regarding the through running. Honestly, can you imagine every bus terminating in the CBD instead of continuing on as say a 263 or 208?

Privatisation has contributed to more of this, as the 224 used to turn into a 218, but it can't happen today due to these services being ran by separate operators.

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