Sydney’s Inner West Line is too unsafe

 
  AheadMatthewawsome Locomotive Driver

Location: Opening Train Lines
I was going back home on the tram with some Ice Cream after being at the Aquarium yesterday (11/7/19). We were at Convention on a service on 2119 at around 3:20 PM. The tram was so full that Tokyo would push us in.

I was like, are you sure that I should to in? All of the other trams would most likely be like this. There is usually during the School Holidays, no seats on any tram in the Zone 1 area.

But it was even worse. There were no handrails to hold on. Some commuters were unable to get off at their stop. We were crushed like sardines in there. People were touching the door on their side. Which someone could have fallen. And if they were old. DEATH! Also, someone could fall on to the tracks. With crushed legs that they would never see again. Or DEATH once again!

As I could not hold onto handrails. I could have fallen very easily. And others would also fall as well. Just like Dominos.

Also as I have Anxiety, Autism, and Depression. I know that someone on a wheelchair would be a disaster. No room on any tram. And it is too much to walk. No phone? No Taxi! Someone could also go insane on the tram due to too many people.

Doors were unable to close due to so many people. Which caused the tram to be late. At least I got to meet some people because of it.

I was not surprised to see the tram going straight to the depot because of it.

This is what it is like every single service within Zone 1. It is a disaster. More services are needed with more capacity within Zone 1. Maybe even a 3rd Track to The Star? No. It keeps going until Lilyfield. So it needs extension that far. It would also have to be more reliable as it is always more then 3 minutes late. And needs lots more improvements.

I noticed in a old news report from 2014. These risks were actually shown back in 2014. Nothing has been done. It needs to be fixed. It was mostly good with the old Varios and the Monorail above us. But then in 2014. It got all worse.

Another reason could be because of the Monorails Closure back 6 years ago this month. Passengers on their had to move to the tram.

Something needs to be done now. What do you think?

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

You’d be mortified to see the state of the Free Tram Zone down south.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Your description matches any tram from the MCG after the completion of any AFL game.
  TomBTR Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Something needs to be done now. What do you think?
AheadMatthewawsome

I am sorry that you found your journey so difficult.

Obviously the line needs many more trams. Not only are the trams packed as you say but one has to wait a long time for one to arrive.

However there is some good in the inner-west loading as it is. Most of this route follows the old freight line that was built long after the inner west was settled. It was not intended to carry passengers and so avoided residential and office employment areas as far as possible. Converted to a mainly reserved track tramway (aka light rail), in spite of its inconvenient location, it quickly become so popular as to be overcrowded. If this line can succeed then just about any tram line will work in Sydney. A message for politicians and lazy public servants who are always open to the easy option of just building yet another road.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Hopefully the govt is reading this and can improve from "too unsafe" to just "unsafe" ASAP.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

An age-old problem:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C999516

(I was hoping that this was a group of Collingwood supporters on their way to see their side thrashed by Fitzroy at the Brunswick Street Oval, but Fitzroy (14.7 - 91) played South Melbourne (10.17 - 77) that day. Collingwood (10.9 – 69) played Melbourne (15.9 – 99) at Victoria Park.)
  stooge spark Train Controller

Does Sydney's tram system have the same problem as Melbourne's in terms of crowding?
As in, you wait 4 days for a tram to come and when it does there's 70 trams immediately behind it? And the first one for whatever reason is the only one with any passengers?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

(I was hoping that this was a group of Collingwood supporters on their way to see their side thrashed by Fitzroy at the Brunswick Street Oval, but Fitzroy (14.7 - 91) played South Melbourne (10.17 - 77) that day. Collingwood (10.9 – 69) played Melbourne (15.9 – 99) at Victoria Park.)
kitchgp
Still, any day when Collingwood gets beaten is a pretty good day, I reckon.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Does Sydney's tram system have the same problem as Melbourne's in terms of crowding?
As in, you wait 4 days for a tram to come and when it does there's 70 trams immediately behind it? And the first one for whatever reason is the only one with any passengers?
stooge spark
Hence the old joke:  Why are Melbourne trams like grapes? Because they are green and come in bunches!
  TomBTR Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Sydney buses behave in this way but the IWLR does not. IWLR trams run to an (unpublished) timetable and arrive at regular intervals, often full. It would be nice to be able to just turn up at a stop and, while watching the back of the tram you have just missed disappear into the distance, turn and see in the distance the front of an approaching tram. Under this system bus bunching can happen as in Melbourne but if the first tram is full there will be room on the next.

Slightly off-topic - the Sydney Metro operates somewhat like the model described in the buses article above. You can see the doors of the city-bound North Shore train close just as the arriving Metro opens its doors at Chatswood. The crowd makes loading the next train slower so once full if leaves. However on the outward journey the empty Metro waits at the platform with plenty of time for arriving passengers to transfer and everything works as smoothly as advertised. I guess that Chatswood northbound is where the slack time is programmed. Unlike the metro, the IWLR does not have the luxury of a single destination for most passengers.

The line just needs more trams.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Does Sydney's tram system have the same problem as Melbourne's in terms of crowding?
As in, you wait 4 days for a tram to come and when it does there's 70 trams immediately behind it? And the first one for whatever reason is the only one with any passengers?
stooge spark

nope. tram arrives at at 5-10 minute intervals depending on the time of day and is alway full regardless of tram between the casino and central.

There is likely to be an order for more of the x05's to run on the inner west with the urbos 3's moving to the parramatta system.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
oh my god.

If you can't hold onto anything on a CAF Urbos 3, it's because there's too many people. You won't fall over, because of the people. You won't die... because of the people.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Does Sydney's tram system have the same problem as Melbourne's in terms of crowding?
As in, you wait 4 days for a tram to come and when it does there's 70 trams immediately behind it? And the first one for whatever reason is the only one with any passengers?

nope. tram arrives at at 5-10 minute intervals depending on the time of day and is alway full regardless of tram between the casino and central.

There is likely to be an order for more of the x05's to run on the inner west with the urbos 3's moving to the parramatta system.
simstrain
Can the line operate with the XO5? ie length for the platforms?

Why not just get more 3's?
  Matthew Train Controller

Can the line operate with the XO5? ie length for the platforms?
RTT_Rules

Single units could - but would need 'gap-fillers' next to the doors to meet current design rules. The IWLR runs a slightly wider loading gauge than the CESLR. The modified 305s couldn't run on the Eastern suburbs routes, they would be too wide.



Why not just get more 3's?


Because the fleet is maintained by Alstom who would rather look after their own product than continue to fight with CAF over parts and documentation for Urbos 3.

I give those Urbos 3 less than 5 more years on the IWLR before they get sold off and replaced by Citadis.
They won't go to Paramatta as that line will be running 7 section cars with batteries. They can't go to either Newcastle without rebuilding to add the battery/capacitor system either, but at least they won't need to be lengthened. CAF would have to find a local partner to do an upgrade on the cars, it would be rather expensive to ship them back to Spain for upgrading to current spec.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Caught the tram yesterday from Convention Centre to Central, around 3:30pm. I also saw the crowd wanting to get on at Central.

I've ridden this section over the last 15 years every 1 to 2 years and watched it and the surrounding area grow.

They clearly need more capacity sooner than later. I havnt been west of the Casino more than once since the final extension and that was lightly used. Perhaps they need to have some services truncated to increase inner capacity.
  Fred Scuttle Junior Train Controller

Location: Point Clare, NSW
I give those Urbos 3 less than 5 more years on the IWLR before they get sold off and replaced by Citadis.
Matthew
I wonder if we'll see the same saga that we witnessed with the disposal of the Variotrams.
  Matthew Train Controller

I give those Urbos 3 less than 5 more years on the IWLR before they get sold off and replaced by Citadis.
I wonder if we'll see the same saga that we witnessed with the disposal of the Variotrams.
Fred Scuttle
The Sydney Urbos 3 is a bog-standard model, not a semi-custom build like the Variotrams, especially if CAF will rebuild them to current spec for a reasonable price, they will sell unless it becomes evident they have (or the Urbos 3 series has) some sort of structural issue that shows up at 5-10 years.
They certainly are not as solidly built as the Variotrams were.
  tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven
I read the original post with some sense of anticipation as to what happened to the ice cream in the crowd but was disappointed that its fate was not further commented upon. There was my brain imagining all sorts of possible outcomes! On a pedantic note, is food allowed on the trams anyway?

They made a big mistake in the design of the line only having a single track stub at the terminus, so the line doesn't really have the capacity for many more trams (on the other hand it has huge capacity on the loop at Central). So, more trams would help but they can't really run them at much closer headways. They also specified trams with too few doors because they failed to anticipate how busy the trams would be. This stretches out the dwells. In summary, a textbook example of poor planning at NSW Transport HQ. Eventually it will hopefully be patched up.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Because the fleet is maintained by Alstom who would rather look after their own product than continue to fight with CAF over parts and documentation for Urbos 3.

I give those Urbos 3 less than 5 more years on the IWLR before they get sold off and replaced by Citadis.
They won't go to Paramatta as that line will be running 7 section cars with batteries. They can't go to either Newcastle without rebuilding to add the battery/capacitor system either, but at least they won't need to be lengthened. CAF would have to find a local partner to do an upgrade on the cars, it would be rather expensive to ship them back to Spain for upgrading to current spec.
Matthew

So why couldn't the IW Urbos 3's be upgraded to wire free and extended to 7 car units for use on the Parramatta line? That is the whole point of the design of modern light rail after all isn't it.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I read the original post with some sense of anticipation as to what happened to the ice cream in the crowd but was disappointed that its fate was not further commented upon. There was my brain imagining all sorts of possible outcomes! On a pedantic note, is food allowed on the trams anyway?

They made a big mistake in the design of the line only having a single track stub at the terminus, so the line doesn't really have the capacity for many more trams (on the other hand it has huge capacity on the loop at Central). So, more trams would help but they can't really run them at much closer headways. They also specified trams with too few doors because they failed to anticipate how busy the trams would be. This stretches out the dwells. In summary, a textbook example of poor planning at NSW Transport HQ. Eventually it will hopefully be patched up.
tonyp

Single stub is not end of the world material, a few options
- Rebuild the terminus such that the arriving trams arrive and discharge their pax on the dual track, the move forward to the single track to load and leave. This way its all still a single platform.
- Do all trams need to run to the terminus? No, simply truncate every 2nd tram mid route and what ever suitable and appropriate station. Think Nth Terrace Adelaide with a middle platform stub track.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Looking at Google Earth, there’s ~150m of single track from the dual-track turnout to the up end of the platform. Port Melbourne, with 100m, is bad enough.

Single or staggered platforms provide less flexibility with late-running trams.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Looking at Google Earth, there’s ~150m of single track from the dual-track turnout to the up end of the platform. Port Melbourne, with 100m, is bad enough.

Single or staggered platforms provide less flexibility with late-running trams.
kitchgp

Not sure how,

late tram arrives at drop off on dual track, rolls forward to pick up, then go.

If there is a tram right on its tail, then won't make any difference if its a balloon loop, staggered or traditional side by side.

Extending the platform maybe the cheapest option available.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Both pull into the platforms at almost the same time, rather than one wait for the preceeding tram to unload at the down platform, traverse to the end, driver to change ends then traverse back. Extending the single platform means first in, last out.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Both pull into the platforms at almost the same time, rather than one wait for the preceeding tram to unload at the down platform, traverse to the end, driver to change ends then traverse back. Extending the single platform means first in, last out.
kitchgp
The tram is a single track in each direction, having watched the same process at Central, you are talking 30sec to discharge a tram load of people, the following tram is unlikely to be that close and even if it is, so what, the tram in front has to depart first anyway.

I said extend the single platform towards the dual track and the drop off is actually on the dual track section during busier times, but yes I acknowledge the the dual track will need to be extended, up to just prior the pedestrian crossing to the part. So on one side you have dual track and drop off, other side the pick up. There is not enough room for side by side tram stops.

However, I wouldn't do a thing out that way, the congestion problem is within 4km of Central, the line should be running two different services.

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