3801 Boiler

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Oh No, Resurrection time
Boiler done, passed tests and is back on the loco
more info https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/3801-update-july-2019

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  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Great News. And about bloody time!
  Peter-Hem Locomotive Driver

Location: Tassie
It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Peter-Hem
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
apw5910
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
a6et
Why do heritage trains have to travel at 115km/h for? ARTC dont care, as long as they get their track access fees, whats it to them? Heritage Operators have just as much right as Freight and Pass companies.

Why do you need 3 x Pigs operational? One from Thirlmere is already at Junee in the Museum there, thats why!
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
Why do heritage trains have to travel at 115km/h for? ARTC dont care, as long as they get their track access fees, whats it to them? Heritage Operators have just as much right as Freight and Pass companies.

Why do you need 3 x Pigs operational? One from Thirlmere is already at Junee in the Museum there, thats why!
LowndesJ515
Great to see the progress made on 3801 but it appears they have decided to run with the original Timken main wheel bearings for the moment. Any news on these bearings otherwise?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
a6et
UP is a wealthy private body and can throw buckets of money at these projects. I believe UP has more diesels on its roster than Australia has totally. I once bumped into the General Counsel for UP in Omaha Nebraska and he made it abundantly clear that the UP Heritage program would never face problems with funding as it was the patriotic thing to do!
  a6et Minister for Railways

It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
Why do heritage trains have to travel at 115km/h for? ARTC dont care, as long as they get their track access fees, whats it to them? Heritage Operators have just as much right as Freight and Pass companies.

Why do you need 3 x Pigs operational? One from Thirlmere is already at Junee in the Museum there, thats why!
LowndesJ515
ARTC have a requirement (at least the last I heard) was that to obtain mainline accreditation the loco has to be able to run at 80Km/h minimum.  Consider the aspect that even though the garratt now is able to run at 80, even though they were never permitted to run at that speed, even though for short periods in dips they got to that speed for a short period as a means to maintain momentum, long term running at that speed will be determined by several factors, and not just standard mechanical areas either.

How long has it been since any of the 38cl fleet has been operational? 3642 has been flogged to death since its primary RTS at Goulburn many years ago, when the frame needed welding.  ATM, if I hear correctly it is very restricted even when in steam.

The simple aspect of what I am suggesting, is that by having the loco's mentioned all available, its much easier to maintain a decent fleet to cover any failures, so even when 01 is available for service what is the backup loco? 3526, and they take a much reduced load.

Even repairing or rebuilding the German boiler so it fits onto another frame wont come quickly nor cheaply but it at least will allow one more 38cl to run, given that the boiler that is going onto 01 now was originally considered no good, and why the German one was built, we are only slightly better off.

3 pigs would give good backup, just as 1 pig has done to cover all the other express type services.

At the end of the day, it doesn't worry me one bit if others are repaired or not, I worked on enough of them in the 60's and up to the end of steam but, my grandkids and future generations may not see steam given the said no need for 3 pigs or one can say more than one steam operationally available for main line accreditation.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
The simple aspect of what I am suggesting, is that by having the loco's mentioned all available, its much easier to maintain a decent fleet to cover any failures, so even when 01 is available for service what is the backup loco? 3526, and they take a much reduced load.
a6et
Hardly matters when there will be two or three diesels pushing it. Steam locos are rarely more than the "Special Effects" thing at the front of the train nowadays. They could just freewheel and and have a fire in the smokebox burning oily rags...
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
The simple aspect of what I am suggesting, is that by having the loco's mentioned all available, its much easier to maintain a decent fleet to cover any failures, so even when 01 is available for service what is the backup loco? 3526, and they take a much reduced load.
Hardly matters when there will be two or three diesels pushing it. Steam locos are rarely more than the "Special Effects" thing at the front of the train nowadays. They could just freewheel and and have a fire in the smokebox burning oily rags...
apw5910
I can assure you that the Steam Loco's do more than their fair share of the work. Most times, depending on the situation, the diesels are purely carrying their own weight. You can have the train full of water gins if you want, then then you'll just whinge about that then...
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
Why do heritage trains have to travel at 115km/h for? ARTC dont care, as long as they get their track access fees, whats it to them? Heritage Operators have just as much right as Freight and Pass companies.

Why do you need 3 x Pigs operational? One from Thirlmere is already at Junee in the Museum there, thats why!
ARTC have a requirement (at least the last I heard) was that to obtain mainline accreditation the loco has to be able to run at 80Km/h minimum.  Consider the aspect that even though the garratt now is able to run at 80, even though they were never permitted to run at that speed, even though for short periods in dips they got to that speed for a short period as a means to maintain momentum, long term running at that speed will be determined by several factors, and not just standard mechanical areas either.

How long has it been since any of the 38cl fleet has been operational? 3642 has been flogged to death since its primary RTS at Goulburn many years ago, when the frame needed welding.  ATM, if I hear correctly it is very restricted even when in steam.

The simple aspect of what I am suggesting, is that by having the loco's mentioned all available, its much easier to maintain a decent fleet to cover any failures, so even when 01 is available for service what is the backup loco? 3526, and they take a much reduced load.

Even repairing or rebuilding the German boiler so it fits onto another frame wont come quickly nor cheaply but it at least will allow one more 38cl to run, given that the boiler that is going onto 01 now was originally considered no good, and why the German one was built, we are only slightly better off.

3 pigs would give good backup, just as 1 pig has done to cover all the other express type services.

At the end of the day, it doesn't worry me one bit if others are repaired or not, I worked on enough of them in the 60's and up to the end of steam but, my grandkids and future generations may not see steam given the said no need for 3 pigs or one can say more than one steam operationally available for main line accreditation.
a6et
Garratt is not rated for 80km/h, its lower by 5km/h. Can you provide your theory on why 6029 cannot maintain this speed over a long period of time?

Tender first running on ARTC territory is at 40km/h. 1803 is allowed to travel from Thirlmere to Central on the ARTC Network at 40km/h. The was a movement earlier in the year from Thirlmere to Eveleigh at 60km/h. My point being is, doesnt matter how fast an item of rollingstock is, if there is a path available, it will go on the network. Its probably the source you heard as diesels NEED to be with Steam Locomotives on the network, which is a load of Hogwash.

There will always be some kind of steam loco available well into the future. If NSW dries up (which i doubt it), visit Victoria, South Aus or QLD.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It shouldn't take too long to reassemble now, should it?
Something tells me it won't be as fast as UP4014. Which went from a similar state in that photo above to moving under its own steam in about a week.
Big, difference is there is much more in the U.S with experience to rebuild what they originally made.  The 3801 debacle is no credit to those in administration and running the circus when the boiler issue was identified and the resulting stuff up with it.

How much will it cost to fix the new boiler, or will it be the boiler that never was/is.

Looking at the work done in Goulburn, from my perspective that company should be given a contract to progressively overhaul various boilers for Transport Heritage. At the moment how many main line steam locomotives are available that can run to 115Km/h on NSW track ATM?  3526, and a limp 3642.  I guess that will please ARTC as fewer trains can interfere with their runnings.

While the work being done on 3801 and other loco's at Thirlmere is it not time for Transport Heritage to take a step up with worklng out a real plan for the future?  There are potentially 3 x38cl that could be progressively brought back to life by professionals, along with 3x36cl, there are spare new boilers available, but one of the pigs is to be plinthed at Junee! why? The more loco's that are available the less longer term strain on the fleet and operations.

Another aspect with the 36cl is that they have plate frames, which could be replaced if required whereas the cast frame of the 38cl cannot be and the only place in the world that a new frame could be built is perhaps in China, if any of their factories could do it.
Why do heritage trains have to travel at 115km/h for? ARTC dont care, as long as they get their track access fees, whats it to them? Heritage Operators have just as much right as Freight and Pass companies.

Why do you need 3 x Pigs operational? One from Thirlmere is already at Junee in the Museum there, thats why!
ARTC have a requirement (at least the last I heard) was that to obtain mainline accreditation the loco has to be able to run at 80Km/h minimum.  Consider the aspect that even though the garratt now is able to run at 80, even though they were never permitted to run at that speed, even though for short periods in dips they got to that speed for a short period as a means to maintain momentum, long term running at that speed will be determined by several factors, and not just standard mechanical areas either.

How long has it been since any of the 38cl fleet has been operational? 3642 has been flogged to death since its primary RTS at Goulburn many years ago, when the frame needed welding.  ATM, if I hear correctly it is very restricted even when in steam.

The simple aspect of what I am suggesting, is that by having the loco's mentioned all available, its much easier to maintain a decent fleet to cover any failures, so even when 01 is available for service what is the backup loco? 3526, and they take a much reduced load.

Even repairing or rebuilding the German boiler so it fits onto another frame wont come quickly nor cheaply but it at least will allow one more 38cl to run, given that the boiler that is going onto 01 now was originally considered no good, and why the German one was built, we are only slightly better off.

3 pigs would give good backup, just as 1 pig has done to cover all the other express type services.

At the end of the day, it doesn't worry me one bit if others are repaired or not, I worked on enough of them in the 60's and up to the end of steam but, my grandkids and future generations may not see steam given the said no need for 3 pigs or one can say more than one steam operationally available for main line accreditation.
Garratt is not rated for 80km/h, its lower by 5km/h. Can you provide your theory on why 6029 cannot maintain this speed over a long period of time?

Tender first running on ARTC territory is at 40km/h. 1803 is allowed to travel from Thirlmere to Central on the ARTC Network at 40km/h. The was a movement earlier in the year from Thirlmere to Eveleigh at 60km/h. My point being is, doesnt matter how fast an item of rollingstock is, if there is a path available, it will go on the network. Its probably the source you heard as diesels NEED to be with Steam Locomotives on the network, which is a load of Hogwash.

There will always be some kind of steam loco available well into the future. If NSW dries up (which i doubt it), visit Victoria, South Aus or QLD.
LowndesJ515
Garratt's were max speed of 40MPH when I worked on them in the 60/70's,  Reason why they could not sustain that speed was the kangarooing affect that they developed above the 40Mph speed, was a very unpleasant ride on them. If any garratt maintained that speed for any length of time the areas where the primary privot points where connected to the two engine, more so on the bunker end owing to the uneven aspect of weights.

edit in Thing to consider also is that a garratt runs either direction, that is BUNKER first or Tank/engine first at the same rated speed, when in regular service, that rating has not been changed in preservation times, even before it was returned to service by ARHS Canberra.  The 40Km/h tender first running or in the old terms 25MPH was applied back then as well, and that applied to all steam loco's that ran tender first, in certain locations when running over facing points they were restricted to 15Mph.

Special allowances are made for certain types of slower rated engines, eg 2705 when doing the Cadbury's advitising runs was given such permission.

One other aspect that comes into these areas also is the lack of watering facilities that can be unavailable, even when running LE they need a gin behind them on most lines even the short north, as if they cannot get into Gosford loco owing to EMU's being stored there they could run out of water.  Unless the elephant column on the north end of Platform 2 has been repaired and allowed to be used.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
CUT
Garratt is not rated for 80km/h, its lower by 5km/h. Can you provide your theory on why 6029 cannot maintain this speed over a long period of time?

Tender first running on ARTC territory is at 40km/h. 1803 is allowed to travel from Thirlmere to Central on the ARTC Network at 40km/h. The was a movement earlier in the year from Thirlmere to Eveleigh at 60km/h. My point being is, doesnt matter how fast an item of rollingstock is, if there is a path available, it will go on the network. Its probably the source you heard as diesels NEED to be with Steam Locomotives on the network, which is a load of Hogwash.

There will always be some kind of steam loco available well into the future. If NSW dries up (which i doubt it), visit Victoria, South Aus or QLD.
Garratt's were max speed of 40MPH when I worked on them in the 60/70's,  Reason why they could not sustain that speed was the kangarooing affect that they developed above the 40Mph speed, was a very unpleasant ride on them. If any garratt maintained that speed for any length of time the areas where the primary privot points where connected to the two engine, more so on the bunker end owing to the uneven aspect of weights.

edit in Thing to consider also is that a garratt runs either direction, that is BUNKER first or Tank/engine first at the same rated speed, when in regular service, that rating has not been changed in preservation times, even before it was returned to service by ARHS Canberra.  The 40Km/h tender first running or in the old terms 25MPH was applied back then as well, and that applied to all steam loco's that ran tender first, in certain locations when running over facing points they were restricted to 15Mph.

Special allowances are made for certain types of slower rated engines, eg 2705 when doing the Cadbury's advitising runs was given such permission.

One other aspect that comes into these areas also is the lack of watering facilities that can be unavailable, even when running LE they need a gin behind them on most lines even the short north, as if they cannot get into Gosford loco owing to EMU's being stored there they could run out of water.  Unless the elephant column on the north end of Platform 2 has been repaired and allowed to be used.
a6et
I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
LowndesJ515
I don't know how to tell you this either, maybe the rule has changed especially for some operators, but it was in existence.

What happened in the 60's/70's only has irrelevance based on how certain aspects are taken into consideration, they include speed and the working of the loco's interesting that on 6029 they have changed the regulator and put a podgers gauge for the driver, was never needed on a garratt, when enginemen knew how to work them, only engine fitted with one was the 36cl owing to the high draft on the fire, but drivers and firemen knew how to handle them without that gauge having any affect on the engine, and that was on bigger loads than the toys of today.
  5810 Junior Train Controller

Location: Wingello
I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
I don't know how to tell you this either, maybe the rule has changed especially for some operators, but it was in existence.

What happened in the 60's/70's only has irrelevance based on how certain aspects are taken into consideration, they include speed and the working of the loco's interesting that on 6029 they have changed the regulator and put a podgers gauge for the driver, was never needed on a garratt, when enginemen knew how to work them, only engine fitted with one was the 36cl owing to the high draft on the fire, but drivers and firemen knew how to handle them without that gauge having any affect on the engine, and that was on bigger loads than the toys of today.
a6et
There has never been a diesel must assist rule.

2705 is in the TOC at 60kph runner as was the NCL set and various other operational items.

and the "toys of today" comment is not even worth replying to.
  5810 Junior Train Controller

Location: Wingello
I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
I don't know how to tell you this either, maybe the rule has changed especially for some operators, but it was in existence.

What happened in the 60's/70's only has irrelevance based on how certain aspects are taken into consideration, they include speed and the working of the loco's interesting that on 6029 they have changed the regulator and put a podgers gauge for the driver, was never needed on a garratt, when enginemen knew how to work them, only engine fitted with one was the 36cl owing to the high draft on the fire, but drivers and firemen knew how to handle them without that gauge having any affect on the engine, and that was on bigger loads than the toys of today.
There has never been a diesel must assist rule.

2705 is in the TOC at 60kph runner as was the NCL set and various other operational items.

and the "toys of today" comment is not even worth replying to.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
I don't know how to tell you this either, maybe the rule has changed especially for some operators, but it was in existence.

What happened in the 60's/70's only has irrelevance based on how certain aspects are taken into consideration, they include speed and the working of the loco's interesting that on 6029 they have changed the regulator and put a podgers gauge for the driver, was never needed on a garratt, when enginemen knew how to work them, only engine fitted with one was the 36cl owing to the high draft on the fire, but drivers and firemen knew how to handle them without that gauge having any affect on the engine, and that was on bigger loads than the toys of today.
a6et
I'm not sure if you're trying to insult the steam crews of today or you're just a plain w a n k e r. I suspect the later the way you keep going on about the past. The past is the past and we are all grateful of that, but today is the future going forward. A lot of you hold grave thoughts about the future, but currently, its in good hands. You will never get back to the days of old, some people need to accept that.

Whether or not the speed limit was in existence in the PAST, i'm telling you now that its no longer the rule. Your original statement was "ARTC have a requirement (at least the last I heard) was that to obtain mainline accreditation the loco has to be able to run at 80Km/h minimum." and i have corrected you on that. Accept it or not, i'm purely putting facts out there before someone runs with it. Like the whole "Diesel's MUST run with Steam Loco's" Fiasco, which is total Bulldust. The only time the Garratt requires a diesel on the train in Sydney Trains Network is when its going to traverse a single bore tunnel. Did you know that if a another Locomotive runs with 6029, it MUST BE at least 103m from the Garratt on Sydney Train Territory.

There is a massive document on 6029 Engineering wise that was submitted to all stakeholders before it entered service. It talked about most items you are talking about and everything was signed off as per that document plus the rigorous tests that Sydney Trains ASA put the loco through.

As for the Podgers Gauge, it was put on there as a bit of a joke. We actually call it the Richter Gauge. But we have since found it very useful in training people on the loco, both fireman and driver. Some data we have collected from it is amazing. Wouldn't any aid these days on a steam loco be great seeing as the crews aren't on them all the time like yesteryear?

The regulator, pfft, why not change it? Its more comfortable, set it easier. Easier going Bunker first. Like the whistle that was on it the other week, why not? It's taken over 4 years to get a rise about the Regulator, makes it all worth it now.

like @5810, not even going to bother with the smeghead comment 'Toys of Today'
  a6et Minister for Railways

I don't know how else to tell you this but there is no such rule with Network Owners. A path is submitted with load, length, times and SPEED. TOC Waivers get factored in then it gets approved should the path timings work out and you run a train. Quite simple. If you want to run it at 20km/h and the path works out, you run. Granted its harder to path but you work with the network owners to find a good outcome. What happened back in the 60/70's is irrelevant now, its now 2019!

As for the bouncing of the Garratt's, yes that still happens. Was quite over it between Parkes and Stockinbingal a few years back but the loco is not in service every day of the year.

The column at Gosford will be re-instated again soon. I dont know of any gins that can travel over 80km/h.
I don't know how to tell you this either, maybe the rule has changed especially for some operators, but it was in existence.

What happened in the 60's/70's only has irrelevance based on how certain aspects are taken into consideration, they include speed and the working of the loco's interesting that on 6029 they have changed the regulator and put a podgers gauge for the driver, was never needed on a garratt, when enginemen knew how to work them, only engine fitted with one was the 36cl owing to the high draft on the fire, but drivers and firemen knew how to handle them without that gauge having any affect on the engine, and that was on bigger loads than the toys of today.
I'm not sure if you're trying to insult the steam crews of today or you're just a plain w a n k e r. I suspect the later the way you keep going on about the past. The past is the past and we are all grateful of that, but today is the future going forward. A lot of you hold grave thoughts about the future, but currently, its in good hands. You will never get back to the days of old, some people need to accept that.

Whether or not the speed limit was in existence in the PAST, i'm telling you now that its no longer the rule. Your original statement was "ARTC have a requirement (at least the last I heard) was that to obtain mainline accreditation the loco has to be able to run at 80Km/h minimum." and i have corrected you on that. Accept it or not, i'm purely putting facts out there before someone runs with it. Like the whole "Diesel's MUST run with Steam Loco's" Fiasco, which is total Bulldust. The only time the Garratt requires a diesel on the train in Sydney Trains Network is when its going to traverse a single bore tunnel. Did you know that if a another Locomotive runs with 6029, it MUST BE at least 103m from the Garratt on Sydney Train Territory.

There is a massive document on 6029 Engineering wise that was submitted to all stakeholders before it entered service. It talked about most items you are talking about and everything was signed off as per that document plus the rigorous tests that Sydney Trains ASA put the loco through.

As for the Podgers Gauge, it was put on there as a bit of a joke. We actually call it the Richter Gauge. But we have since found it very useful in training people on the loco, both fireman and driver. Some data we have collected from it is amazing. Wouldn't any aid these days on a steam loco be great seeing as the crews aren't on them all the time like yesteryear?

The regulator, pfft, why not change it? Its more comfortable, set it easier. Easier going Bunker first. Like the whistle that was on it the other week, why not? It's taken over 4 years to get a rise about the Regulator, makes it all worth it now.

like @5810, not even going to bother with the smeghead comment 'Toys of Today'
LowndesJ515
I do not mean disrespect for those who work on tours or heritage working, by what I said.  Thing that not only I see and others who worked on steam every day with loco's not maintained to the standards we see today, is how its more a show than understanding of the conditions we worked under day in and day out.  As for the term smeghead, well I see more of those on tours and around the tracks than you obviously do.

The other aspect in it is the simple fact of the conditions that are prepared to be undermined is an insult to those who have gone before, & I will leave it at that.

The interesting aspect of the regulator is that the original type never had issues when the garratts, 36, 38 had them as the spring ball always held them in the required notching, one 36cl had the spring regulator on it 3607, I saw my driver mate try to arrest a wheel spin with that regulator and he had big issues trying to close it fast enough and open it again slowly in order to regain momentum. It was removed soon after when the smokebox multi valve was serviced.

Toy trains is a reference only to the much lighter and smaller working loads.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
Regarding returning more locos to service, that is what the heritage hub at Chullora will be for.  Thirlmere is not an ideal workshop for major restorations and the scale of fleet operations is fast outgrowing it.
I think in the long term we will see all the mainline locos and rollingstock stored and maintained at Chullora and only visit Thirlmere at certain times.  This will allow the Thirlmere shed to focus on operations and running maintenance on the loop line rollingstock.
With the planned expansion of loop line operations I think we will see the number of loop line steam engines increase.  
In my opinion the museum's standard goods and 32 class engines would possibly be most suitable for this longer heavier run.  32's in particular would be able to be used on the main line as well from time to time.  Perhaps throw in a 59 there as well as a multi purpose engine.
It's my understanding that the focus on the mainline fleet will eventually see one 38 and one 36 at least available at any one time allowing for other 38's or 36's to be under overhaul or down for maintenance.  
3642 and 3616 are both being considered for overhaul so it would be my guess we will see one of these and 3830 as the next major projects.
While Ainsworths is I'm sure a great firm, I lobbied for and am pleased to see Chullora becoming a heritage steam and boiler skills hub for all future restorations.  It has many advantages including its scale, established facilities, overhead cranes etc.  Primarily though I think it is important that skills be developed and retained within the organisation and shared with other heritage operators as opposed to a private firm having a monopoly on the expertise.  
The museum needs its own workers and volunteers to be a highly skilled team capable of working on any project and I think it is heading in this direction.  If a private contractor become involved in the future it should be a clear partnership to aid skills development and retention within the organisation.  It is only that way and by expanding our capabilities and customer base that we will see more locomotives in the operating fleet.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Regarding returning more locos to service, that is what the heritage hub at Chullora will be for.  Thirlmere is not an ideal workshop for major restorations and the scale of fleet operations is fast outgrowing it.
I think in the long term we will see all the mainline locos and rollingstock stored and maintained at Chullora and only visit Thirlmere at certain times.  This will allow the Thirlmere shed to focus on operations and running maintenance on the loop line rollingstock.
With the planned expansion of loop line operations I think we will see the number of loop line steam engines increase.  
In my opinion the museum's standard goods and 32 class engines would possibly be most suitable for this longer heavier run.  32's in particular would be able to be used on the main line as well from time to time.  Perhaps throw in a 59 there as well as a multi purpose engine.
It's my understanding that the focus on the mainline fleet will eventually see one 38 and one 36 at least available at any one time allowing for other 38's or 36's to be under overhaul or down for maintenance.  
3642 and 3616 are both being considered for overhaul so it would be my guess we will see one of these and 3830 as the next major projects.
While Ainsworths is I'm sure a great firm, I lobbied for and am pleased to see Chullora becoming a heritage steam and boiler skills hub for all future restorations.  It has many advantages including its scale, established facilities, overhead cranes etc.  Primarily though I think it is important that skills be developed and retained within the organisation and shared with other heritage operators as opposed to a private firm having a monopoly on the expertise.  
The museum needs its own workers and volunteers to be a highly skilled team capable of working on any project and I think it is heading in this direction.  If a private contractor become involved in the future it should be a clear partnership to aid skills development and retention within the organisation.  It is only that way and by expanding our capabilities and customer base that we will see more locomotives in the operating fleet.
TheFish
Fish,  if Chullora becomes what you say about it, then its a good location and the room especially in the main loco workshop itself with decent Overhead gantry cranes it will provide excellent facilities that are needed.  My concern for it though is the sort of isolation, with PT, but not as bad as Thirlmere, which is a limiting aspect regard to access for those who may look to work there.

The concept that I pushed in my first post on this topic that allows for the Goulburn company to do the primary rebuilds/overhauls on boilers likewise on engines that have the older plate frames that need replacing. Something that cruelled many engines in the past, especially with the 36cl, with 42 having need for repairs at Goulburn many years back.  As such that sort of work provides work for a Country location and builds skills that are very much lacking these days. My thoughts go back to when 3801 and then 3830 were overhauled 01 at the State dockyard if my memory serves me correctly and 30 at East Great under the Hunter traineeship agreement.  Both of those jobs created opportunities for apprentices to learn trades in that area but also helped with getting them some wider skills that would not have been available outside the areas.

In affect the two areas, Goulburn and Chullora and their works could very much compliment each other, which would help the future of heritage operations in the state and create new employment opportunities as already mentioned.

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