B1 retirement

 
  richardlu_yy Chief Train Controller

Location: Singapore
So on Facebook today on the official Yarra Trams page there were some photos of the B1 class farewell tour. Anyone has an idea if they will actually be retired for good soon?

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1110054445673282.1073741840.187307761281293&type=3

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  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

Well, they don't farewell something unless it is actually going.

The question is, why? The trams seem in fairly good condition. Is there not a tram shortage?

Are they that different to B2s that parts are unavailable?
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Don't they use totally different brake systems to any other tram on the system?
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
I suppose the obvious bewilderment revolves around why the B1??

There are still crap heap Z class around, as well as the also dated A class. Both of these move less people than a B does. Hence the question, as valid as the reason may be.

Regards


ps, sorry to divert off topic, but is the withdrawal of the A class covered anywhere. Haven't found as yet, but someone may know.
  Matthew Train Controller

I suppose the obvious bewilderment revolves around why the B1??

There are still crap heap Z class around, as well as the also dated A class. Both of these move less people than a B does. Hence the question, as valid as the reason may be.
davesvline


The B1s are older than most of the A class. They were built as 'light rail' line prototypes and originally had folding steps.

But the main 'problem', is that there are only two of them and they have completely different brakes to the the series build.
They have spent long periods out of service waiting parts. I assume that since the braking system is different they handle in traffic differently to the 'series' build - and that alone would discourage drivers from wanting to drive them.

'One offs' always end up being maintenance nightmares. Back when the B2 class production was in full swing they should have sent the prototypes back to the factory and had them rebuilt to series build configuration so that would be 'standard'. Way too late for that now.

Most of the remaining Z class are the Z3 type which share similar technology to the A1/2 class. But there are lots of them, thus it more economic to hold parts and the maintence staff are familiar with them.

But the Z3 won't be far behind the B1 heading for retirement, assuming the government keeps buying new trams.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Excellent. That answers both the original posters, mine, and my follow up query all in one.

Cheers
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
It's two trams (or light rail vehicles, as originally marketed), sell them off to a museum if they can't afford to keep repairing them or converting them to use Z3/A/B2 running gear (they're virtually an articulated A class but with air brakes). It's not like Yarra Trams is saying they are scrapping the five Bumblebees and 36 C1s to pay for three more E classes while every route not numbered ninety-six misses out. On a side note I still believe Sydney made a big mistake withdrawing their Variotrams so early, they would have been made to good use on the 75 down here.
  Matthew Train Controller

On a side note I still believe Sydney made a big mistake withdrawing their Variotrams so early, they would have been made to good use on the 75 down here.
Heihachi_73

That's probably what TfNSW was hoping when they put them up for sale.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
It looks like they still have a bit of life in them yet. I followed B1.2001 along Gilbert Rd in service on Route 11 this morning
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Caught 2001 on Friday. Its a long goodbye. Z1 and Z2s are definitely gone though.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
B1 retirement must be a bit like VLP's A66 running its last passenger service, keeps getting drafted back into service when ever they have nothing else.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Noticed on TDU today that B1 2001 *might* be in for an overhaul. Hopefully Yarra Trams comes to their senses and keeps 2001 and 2002 going alongside their B2 successors.
  Matthew Train Controller

Noticed on TDU today that B1 2001 *might* be in for an overhaul. Hopefully Yarra Trams comes to their senses and keeps 2001 and 2002 going alongside their B2 successors.
Heihachi_73
Still borderline - they want to overhaul it by making it closer to the B2 - mostly by replacing the brakes with 'standard' B2 brakes. Once they get into it, they may drop the idea as too expensive for a tram with only 10-15 years of operational life left. It's going to depend on just how much work it will be to replace the braking system to make it standard.
It may very well go the same way as the proposal to replace the ageing ASEA tramiac controllers on the Z1/2 with a modern industrial PLC. Dropped as too expensive for the service life left on the vehicle.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Just going to bump this for now, asking the very simple question: "Where are they now?"

With Yarra Trams happily rebuilding Z3s, it seems absurd that the two B1s have seemingly vanished off the face of the planet when they could be of better use over a tram half their size. The B2 rebuild program was the perfect time to refit them with B2 running gear, removing their mechanical deficiencies for good (albeit retaining the half drop windows and the lack of air conditioning). Both TDU and Vicsig return no results this side of 2017.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Just going to bump this for now, asking the very simple question: "Where are they now?"

With Yarra Trams happily rebuilding Z3s, it seems absurd that the two B1s have seemingly vanished off the face of the planet when they could be of better use over a tram half their size. The B2 rebuild program was the perfect time to refit them with B2 running gear, removing their mechanical deficiencies for good (albeit retaining the half drop windows and the lack of air conditioning). Both TDU and Vicsig return no results this side of 2017.
Heihachi_73
Wikipedia, which means take this with a grain of salt, claims that 2002 was stripped for parts to keep 2001 going, so it's not likely to reappear anywhere. There aren't a lot of references as to where 2001 is now.

Neil
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

With Yarra Trams happily rebuilding Z3s, it seems absurd that the two B1s have seemingly vanished off the face of the planet when they could be of better use over a tram half their size. The B2 rebuild program was the perfect time to refit them with B2 running gear, removing their mechanical deficiencies for good (albeit retaining the half drop windows and the lack of air conditioning). Both TDU and Vicsig return no results this side of 2017.
Heihachi_73
Honestly what's the point for just two of them given the fact they are also not that big and are high floor. The B2s are as rare on the 11 and 86 now at the B1s were and its surely not long before the Es start spilling over onto other routes. Time to move on.
  tram1041 Station Staff

With Yarra Trams happily rebuilding Z3s, it seems absurd that the two B1s have seemingly vanished off the face of the planet when they could be of better use over a tram half their size. The B2 rebuild program was the perfect time to refit them with B2 running gear, removing their mechanical deficiencies for good (albeit retaining the half drop windows and the lack of air conditioning). Both TDU and Vicsig return no results this side of 2017.
Honestly what's the point for just two of them given the fact they are also not that big and are high floor. The B2s are as rare on the 11 and 86 now at the B1s were and its surely not long before the Es start spilling over onto other routes. Time to move on.
Mr. Lane
80 E Class are apparently enough to cover all of the 11,86 & 96 and to remove the B's.There was talk of the remaining 10 of this current order possibly going to an Expanded Bwk depot possibly for the 58.The B1's should have been included in the current refurb program in my opinion to conform to B2 standards.Also i believe that there still also should be some Z1's around also to help with overcrowding and also be refurbed, not as far as the Z3's,but to make them reliable,but once again the phrases Yarra Trams and common sense don't belong in the same sentence.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

With Yarra Trams happily rebuilding Z3s, it seems absurd that the two B1s have seemingly vanished off the face of the planet when they could be of better use over a tram half their size. The B2 rebuild program was the perfect time to refit them with B2 running gear, removing their mechanical deficiencies for good (albeit retaining the half drop windows and the lack of air conditioning). Both TDU and Vicsig return no results this side of 2017.
Honestly what's the point for just two of them given the fact they are also not that big and are high floor. The B2s are as rare on the 11 and 86 now at the B1s were and its surely not long before the Es start spilling over onto other routes. Time to move on.
80 E Class are apparently enough to cover all of the 11,86 & 96 and to remove the B's.There was talk of the remaining 10 of this current order possibly going to an Expanded Bwk depot possibly for the 58.The B1's should have been included in the current refurb program in my opinion to conform to B2 standards.Also i believe that there still also should be some Z1's around also to help with overcrowding and also be refurbed, not as far as the Z3's,but to make them reliable,but once again the phrases Yarra Trams and common sense don't belong in the same sentence.
tram1041
We don't agree on what common sense is then. I think common sense is not to sink money into a handful of ancient and bespoke trams that either have a history of unreliability, difficult to source parts or were in very poor material condition upon retirement. If so many old trams were retained, YT would also have to find more drivers to keep driving them.

The future is bigger trams, not more of them. If anything they should be saving money on the Z3 refurbs and extending/accelerating the E order.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Common sense would be to disperse the low floor trams around all depots rather than having the entire fleet of low floor trams in one or two depots, but common sense doesn't exist in Melbourne's public transport sector.
  tram1041 Station Staff

Common sense would be to disperse the low floor trams around all depots rather than having the entire fleet of low floor trams in one or two depots, but common sense doesn't exist in Melbourne's public transport sector.
Heihachi_73
Spot on .I don't see why all the D1's need to be based at Malvern,at least half should be at Ess/Bwk to serve the hospitals in Parkville constantly on the 58/59 and the 19 not just randomly on the 58 as Bwk insist on using the D2's on the 6.They could be swapped with B's & Z's.Some B's should also  be put on the 57 and be run via Haymarket and possibly through route another route or re- instate the old route 50 to cover the N/M section at least on weekdays,similar to the 3/3A set up.There are a lot of little and subtle changes that could be put in place now to make things way more efficient but no-one gives a crap except for the people that have no say but who actually use the service.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@MrLane Totally agree about the Z class trams. The Government's own rolling stock document stated that all Z class trams were to be retired by 2022. Now they are embarking on a $250 million refurbishment program on high floor trams which should be razor blades by now. A modern tram network in which this Government is proposing should be operated by modern low floor trams, not high floor mausoleums. Totally stupid.

Michael
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The high floor issue wouldn't be a problem if they weren't the sole trams running on most parts of the network while the Combinos (both D1 and D2) are all wasted on routes which hardly have any accessible stops whatsoever.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Common sense would be to disperse the low floor trams around all depots rather than having the entire fleet of low floor trams in one or two depots, but common sense doesn't exist in Melbourne's public transport sector.
Spot on .I don't see why all the D1's need to be based at Malvern,at least half should be at Ess/Bwk to serve the hospitals in Parkville constantly on the 58/59 and the 19 not just randomly on the 58 as Bwk insist on using the D2's on the 6.
tram1041
The 19 is exclusively run by D2s already, why would you move D1s to Brunswick for the 19? And the 59 likewise is run exclusively by B class. Running D1s on them is a downgrade. In fact the 58 would be better off if it was solely run by B class as there is hardly any level access stops on the route anyway...

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