Z3 class tram retirement

 
Topic moved from Melbourne suburban by dthead on 10 Aug 2019 15:15
  bordercollie9401 Beginner

Hi I am wondering what will be replacing the Z3 class trams and when they are expected to be retired. By mid 2020s?

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
2030 if lucky. There are 114 Z3 trams. 114 E classes (or their successors) would need to be ordered to make the Z3s completely surplus to Melbourne's needs. If 2 Z classes were replaced with only one E class you would be effectively halving the timetable even though the passenger rate would be up. And then there is the problem of having another 69 A classes, which are even smaller than the Z3s.

Given that the mechanicals are mostly identical between Z3, A and B2 trams (traction motors, bogies, electrical equipment etc.) and the fact that it takes forever for even a single E class to leave Dandenong and enter service in Melbourne, it is fair to say that they will be around for some time. The only fault that a Z (and A) has is the lack of passenger air conditioning, but unfortunately fitting aircon units to nearly 200 trams would be extremely costly for a fleet which might not even exist ten years from now.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Should be in Trams and Light Rail.
  gunzel42 Locomotive Fireman

Should be in Trams and Light Rail.
kitchgp
The forum subheading says Discussions relating to the Melbourne Suburban Rail/Tram Network contained in Myki Zones 1 and 2.

You'll probably also need to make comment in the Refurbishment features posting and other railcar-specific postings to let them know that it should be posted in Locomotives and Rolling Stock.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
How about the export of at least some of our modern-style high floor fleet, will anyone else want to buy them?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Can't do that, we still need them since routes 19, 59, 75 and 109 are still lacking E class trams thus are stopping B/C/D2 class trams used on those routes from replacing the A/Z3 trams on the "lesser" routes like the 48, 57, 70, 78 etc.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
They're not going anywhere in the near future. Not unless the state government get serious about making the entire network DDA compliant in a hurry, which is something until now they have been doing at a snail's pace.

For the record, the eldest members of the class will turn 40 years old next month.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

A VicSig photo from earlier this year of 4 x Z3 being refurbished at East Preston depot (click on the caption to expand):

https://vicsig.net/photo/23128

Whether or not all the Z3s are being done is not known. The press releases refer to 85 - 90% of the whole fleet (A, B, C, D & Z3) being refurbished.
  tram1041 Station Staff

Can't do that, we still need them since routes 19, 59, 75 and 109 are still lacking E class trams thus are stopping B/C/D2 class trams used on those routes from replacing the A/Z3 trams on the "lesser" routes like the 48, 57, 70, 78 etc.
Heihachi_73
At least the 19,48 & 109 have low floor trams in the C1 & D2's.The D1's should be split between Malvern & Essendon as that would give low floor access to 57 & 59,there is  no need to have them all at Malvern.Swap with some B's,but mainly Z's.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Low floor trams don't mean anything if there is nowhere to get on or off though, they are mostly useless on the 19, 48 and 109 outside the CBD due to the nonexistence of accessible stops along the majority of routes once you leave the Free Tram Zone, Melbourne Uni, St Kilda Rd or Victoria St - the only exceptions are the 96 and 109 on the light rail side, where both routes are accessible from the city all the way to the end. I don't know the northern side of the city so I will not comment about those routes. The 19 in particular takes the cake for not even having one outside Flinders Street Station.

The 5 has a couple on Dandenong Rd, which are mostly useless because Malvern just loves putting Z3s on this route to compliment Glenhuntly's selection of high floor trams on the same road (route 64).

The 6 has just one at the Glen Iris terminus, so of course it makes sense that the 6 gets the odd D2 now and then. The 5, 16 and 72 don't even have such a stop at their outer termini so if a wheelchair was still on they would be stuck on the tram all the way back towards the city. The only other Malvern route which has an "accessible" outer terminus is the 58 (except that about 80% of the trams on the 58 are B2s and Z3s).

The 16's token stops are Balaclava station and stop 48 Dandenong Rd (what was even the point of that one, for wheelchairs to cross two major roads and meet the Glenhuntly B2s?)

The 19 has one at the North Coburg terminus and not much else.

The 48 has a few along Bridge Rd (useless for the high-floor-only 75) and then one more at the North Balwyn terminus, not even bothering with a platform stop where the 109 meets up at Kew, despite having ample room for one outside QPO where the routes split.

The 58 has one at the Toorak terminus, the next one inbound is near the Metro Tunnel work site at the other end of Toorak Rd, and was only done because the old (and non-upgraded) route 8 section via Park St/Domain Rd was cut off. Naturally no connecting stop was built for the nearby 16 thus making the 58's platform stop completely useless aside from a long push to the Glen Waverley train. Of course there isn't an accessible stop outside South Yarra, instead they decided to build one outside Richmond on the 70 instead which is run with A class trams (and the odd B2 now and then).

The 72 has its token stop at Gardiner station, and the platform stop was only built due to the grade separation project. It only makes sense that just like the busy South Yarra and Glenferrie stations, Camberwell also misses out.

The 109 has no accessible stops at all between Victoria Gardens (stop 25) and Mont Albert (stop 54). Which of course means no accessible connections with the low floor trams on the 16, 48 or 72 as stated above.
  MetroFemme Chief Train Controller

If not the z3 what are the oldest class on the Melbourne network?
  CraigieburnLineUser Station Staff

Low floor trams don't mean anything if there is nowhere to get on or off though, they are mostly useless on the 19, 48 and 109 outside the CBD due to the nonexistence of accessible stops along the majority of routes once you leave the Free Tram Zone, Melbourne Uni, St Kilda Rd or Victoria St - the only exceptions are the 96 and 109 on the light rail side, where both routes are accessible from the city all the way to the end. I don't know the northern side of the city so I will not comment about those routes. The 19 in particular takes the cake for not even having one outside Flinders Street Station.

The 5 has a couple on Dandenong Rd, which are mostly useless because Malvern just loves putting Z3s on this route to compliment Glenhuntly's selection of high floor trams on the same road (route 64).

The 6 has just one at the Glen Iris terminus, so of course it makes sense that the 6 gets the odd D2 now and then. The 5, 16 and 72 don't even have such a stop at their outer termini so if a wheelchair was still on they would be stuck on the tram all the way back towards the city. The only other Malvern route which has an "accessible" outer terminus is the 58 (except that about 80% of the trams on the 58 are B2s and Z3s).

The 16's token stops are Balaclava station and stop 48 Dandenong Rd (what was even the point of that one, for wheelchairs to cross two major roads and meet the Glenhuntly B2s?)

The 19 has one at the North Coburg terminus and not much else.

The 48 has a few along Bridge Rd (useless for the high-floor-only 75) and then one more at the North Balwyn terminus, not even bothering with a platform stop where the 109 meets up at Kew, despite having ample room for one outside QPO where the routes split.

The 58 has one at the Toorak terminus, the next one inbound is near the Metro Tunnel work site at the other end of Toorak Rd, and was only done because the old (and non-upgraded) route 8 section via Park St/Domain Rd was cut off. Naturally no connecting stop was built for the nearby 16 thus making the 58's platform stop completely useless aside from a long push to the Glen Waverley train. Of course there isn't an accessible stop outside South Yarra, instead they decided to build one outside Richmond on the 70 instead which is run with A class trams (and the odd B2 now and then).

The 72 has its token stop at Gardiner station, and the platform stop was only built due to the grade separation project. It only makes sense that just like the busy South Yarra and Glenferrie stations, Camberwell also misses out.

The 109 has no accessible stops at all between Victoria Gardens (stop 25) and Mont Albert (stop 54). Which of course means no accessible connections with the low floor trams on the 16, 48 or 72 as stated above.
Heihachi_73
On the 59 there is a light rail section with accessible stops from the terminus at Airport West to the edge of Matthew's Ave (about 10 stops). Only problem there is that we get Bs and a few Z3s. Would like to see the new E Class trams coming to the Essendon Depot and the 59 though
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Perhaps the W8-Class, used on Route 35 City Circle (Free Tourist Tram), which are upgrades of earlier W-Class models. Currently the oldest of these is former SW6.928 which, according to VicSig, entered service in March 1947. SW6.856, which entered service in June 1940, is being converted at Bendigo.

The oldest of The Colonial Tramcar Restaurant trams is SW6.935 (#6), which entered service in December 1947. The service is currently suspended.

Otherwise Z3.

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