Mount Barker train would be ‘huge win’ for business, local association says

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 Jul 2019 09:23
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The areas around Gawler and the un-used railway lines are a huge potential area for low to medium urbanisation or urban fringe development. A DMU service to either Kapunda or Hamley Bridge would be relatively inexpensive and could encourage commuter belt low density in an area where its suited to it, light industry, market garden farming etc etc.

A much better idea than a Mt Barker train in my opinion.
don_dunstan

How so? You have how many kilometres of track to maintain (around 100km?), including several significant bridges and all of which requires significant rehabilitation. The only revenue you are generating is from a handful of DMU journeys a day with at best moderate patronage.

How is that relatively inexpensive?

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  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The areas around Gawler and the un-used railway lines are a huge potential area for low to medium urbanisation or urban fringe development. A DMU service to either Kapunda or Hamley Bridge would be relatively inexpensive and could encourage commuter belt low density in an area where its suited to it, light industry, market garden farming etc etc.

A much better idea than a Mt Barker train in my opinion.

How so? You have how many kilometres of track to maintain (around 100km?), including several significant bridges and all of which requires significant rehabilitation. The only revenue you are generating is from a handful of DMU journeys a day with at best moderate patronage.

How is that relatively inexpensive?
bingley hall
I agree about those country runs.

Extending from Gawler Central to Concordia (3km) or Kalbeeba (5km) would be a different matter though, the additional distance is shorter and the ex-GWA route should be in better condition for rebuilding.

It looks like Gawler Central is going to have to be a DMU shuttle from Gawler due to the tight clearance under the King St bridge and the A-City not having batteries, so it would seem like a good opportunity to add a couple more stations and give the shuttle a bit more work serving the new developments east of the town.

It’s been some 20 years since I’ve been in the area, but I’m assuming the general geographic arrangement where Mt Barker station is about as convenient to anything as Keswick is hasn’t changed? At least there is symmetry.
SAR523
The original 1883 station was never close to anything - the town and station were built on opposite sides of a creek!

The current use of the car park at the station is as a park and ride for the freeway buses. This is really a case of the original purpose being preserved with new methods - people mostly still use their best available road transport option to get there (it's probably not a horse these days) and they still use the best mass transit link between there and Adelaide (the freeway buses).

I’d have though it would make more sense to just widen Junction Rd and build a whopping big car park near enough to where Mt Barker Junction is today, with the service terminating there?
SAR523
You'd lose the benefit of allowing for local transport methods (e.g. cycle, walk, drop off partner on the way somewhere else) to get to the station then. May as well just terminate the trains at Balhannah where there would be potential for it have both local use and a park-and-ride.

Better yet would be rebuilding the freeway onramp with a straighter alignment to allow land already owned by DPTI to be used for a park and ride at the freeway interchange.

Here is over 10,000 m2 of land, leaving aside enough room for the realigned onramp:


Here is 76 car parks (part of the Mt Barker station park and ride, at the same scale) fitting into that area 5 times over, giving at least 380 parks:


If you want to be really ambitious, build a deck over the freeway between the onramp and offramp to get well over double that space.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
How so? You have how many kilometres of track to maintain (around 100km?), including several significant bridges and all of which requires significant rehabilitation. The only revenue you are generating is from a handful of DMU journeys a day with at best moderate patronage.

How is that relatively inexpensive?
bingley hall
Yeah you are probably right, I'm stuck in Melbourne-type thinking which is that we should urgently find more greenfields areas and then tack public transport on as an after-thought. Those lines (particularly bridges) would require significant rehabilitation.

Roseworthy or Concordia could be do-able though as JAP pointed out - Roseworthy already has some substantial industry, a University of Adelaide campus and urban development happening.

I'm also thinking in terms of some tourist train trips possible from Adelaide since we'll be getting some spare 3000's soon - but as (I think it was Aaron) pointed out a while ago it would just end up being stacked with non-paying pensioners. Just a thought.
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
....

It looks like Gawler Central is going to have to be a DMU shuttle from Gawler due to the tight clearance under the King St bridge and the A-City not having batteries, so it would seem like a good opportunity to add a couple more stations and give the shuttle a bit more work serving the new developments east of the town.

...
justapassenger
Has the issue of the King St bridge finally been resolved?  There has been talk recently of its removal and replacement by a pedestrian/cycle bridge.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

....

It looks like Gawler Central is going to have to be a DMU shuttle from Gawler due to the tight clearance under the King St bridge and the A-City not having batteries, so it would seem like a good opportunity to add a couple more stations and give the shuttle a bit more work serving the new developments east of the town.

...
Has the issue of the King St bridge finally been resolved?  There has been talk recently of its removal and replacement by a pedestrian/cycle bridge.
62430
That would be sensible, given that there is ample access from Murray St and that would be a good example of restricting permeability to stop it being used as a rat run.

But the talk I've heard is that the consensus is swinging it towards leaving it as is and using an otherwise surplus 3000 to do shuttle runs.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

Now about the train to Mt Barker you cannot run a train across a turntable even at low speed with passengers in it as it would be too large a risk to take. A bolt breaks or something the turntable is able to move under the railcars and you have a disaster almost. Next is the current train line takes far to long as well, a bus or car would have you there in half the time a train would take or maybe even less, yes I have been to Mt Barker by bus and it was not that much of an inconvenience to me at the time.
The other thing is being dumped at Keswick Terminal how do you get to the city proper from there, there is no longer any BG track connected to there and  metro busses do not go into or out of there either. So you are stuck there to find your own way out. Taxis will usually only be there when a GSR service goes in or out of there. It is a fair trek to the nearest railway station or bus stop and more so for those as you stated above or seniors etc on wet or stinking hot days.

The best in my mind would be to build an entirely new line like what was done for Noarlunga Centre and Seaford. But that would require a lot of tunnelling, bridgework etc which would make the new line very expensive to start with. But what people have to realise is that if you want to live in a place like Mt Barker then you have to sacrifice some things like PT in places like that. There are other sacrifices you have to make as well if you want to live there. Otherwise in a few years Victor Harbor will be a suburb of Adelaide rather than a quaint country destination.
DJPeters
Was the turntable installed by Steam Ranger before they stopped running services to the Junction?

I don't anyone here has posted serious intent to dump pax at Keswick, It is however the end of the easily practical use of the SG towards Adelaide but the transfer station option of Goodwood. Why Goodwood, its there now, its a junction of three different rail directions, one of which is the city and also access to the tram for access to the southern part of the city.

Do people like to transfer? no. Is it a major road block? no. But consider both Sydney and Melbourne both have this now for Interurban trains to access the city, the new NW Metro in Sydney stops at Chatswood (for 5 years), the Sydney tram terminus is intended for those who have arrived or going on another mode of transport as does anyone accessing other parts of the network and as Adelaide is now moving to tiered operations for the two longer lines, then its happening now there too.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

Expanding on my previous post....

Mt Barker - Bridgewater - Adelaide Express Route Proposal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The SA government probably doesn't have enough $$$$. I am dreaming.
However this is a relatively cheap way to reduce train travel times by 21 minutes between Bridgewater and Adelaide station.

Realignment starts at Bridgewater towards Adelaide - ease the curves to Heathfield.
Then 900m tunnel (under Heathfield Netball club) and follow the Sturt River at 1/40 gradient.
At one point rail line will cross river - bridge approx 300m long.
Line goes through northern part of Blackwood Forest Recreation Park, altitude of 240m.
Then long bridge (approx 700m) across Minno Creek.
Then rejoin existing line at Coromandel (altitude approx 240m).

This express route can have track speed of 115km/h, so overall average speed is 100km/h.

Existing line
Coromandel 17.2km from Adelaide
Bridgewater 37.6 kilometres from Adelaide
20.4km at 40km/h = 30.6 minutes

Express line
14.9km at 100km/h = 9 minutes

Saving 21.6 minutes

Quoting from another Railpage thread:
Back in 1979, when dinosaurs ruled the earth, I was a regular train traveller - Heathfield to Mitcham or Adelaide. Back then, 218 would do the trip from Bridgewater to Adelaide in 58 minutes (all to Eden Hills, then Mitcham and Adelaide).

The new Express Route would allow trains to go Bridgewater - Adelaide in 37 minutes.

I believe Mt Barker Station is 55km from Adelaide Station.
(55km - 37.6km) @ 50km/h average speed = 21 minutes

Total time Adelaide - Mount Barker is 58 minutes.
The existing express bus is 55 minutes.

The new express rail line may possibly be justified if the existing bus service is completely inadequate, e.g. there are huge number of commuters trying to catch those express buses.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner


Now about the train to Mt Barker you cannot run a train across a turntable even at low speed with passengers in it as it would be too large a risk to take. A bolt breaks or something the turntable is able to move under the railcars and you have a disaster almost. Next is the current train line takes far to long as well, a bus or car would have you there in half the time a train would take or maybe even less, yes I have been to Mt Barker by bus and it was not that much of an inconvenience to me at the time.
The other thing is being dumped at Keswick Terminal how do you get to the city proper from there, there is no longer any BG track connected to there and  metro busses do not go into or out of there either. So you are stuck there to find your own way out. Taxis will usually only be there when a GSR service goes in or out of there. It is a fair trek to the nearest railway station or bus stop and more so for those as you stated above or seniors etc on wet or stinking hot days.

The best in my mind would be to build an entirely new line like what was done for Noarlunga Centre and Seaford. But that would require a lot of tunnelling, bridgework etc which would make the new line very expensive to start with. But what people have to realise is that if you want to live in a place like Mt Barker then you have to sacrifice some things like PT in places like that. There are other sacrifices you have to make as well if you want to live there. Otherwise in a few years Victor Harbor will be a suburb of Adelaide rather than a quaint country destination.Was the turntable installed by Steam Ranger before they stopped running services to the Junction?

I don't anyone here has posted serious intent to dump pax at Keswick, It is however the end of the easily practical use of the SG towards Adelaide but the transfer station option of Goodwood. Why Goodwood, its there now, its a junction of three different rail directions, one of which is the city and also access to the tram for access to the southern part of the city.

Do people like to transfer? no. Is it a major road block? no. But consider both Sydney and Melbourne both have this now for Interurban trains to access the city, the new NW Metro in Sydney stops at Chatswood (for 5 years), the Sydney tram terminus is intended for those who have arrived or going on another mode of transport as does anyone accessing other parts of the network and as Adelaide is now moving to tiered operations for the two longer lines, then its happening now there too.
RTT_Rules
Yes the turntable was installed before they stopped running to there. Steamranger have in the past run Red Hens over the Turntable to get to Mt Barker Junc however that is a lot different to Adelaide Metro doing it and what happens if an accident should occur.

People here in SA do not like to transfer between things if it can be helped. Our transport system here is chaos if you want to go from one place to the other seamlessly it is just not possible. Bus to train interchanges here can have you waiting 1/2 hour and sometimes more off peak because either the bus was early or late. Sometimes you are just pulling into the station in time to see your bus leave the interchange and you then have to wait for the next one to finish your trip. Totally uncoordinated is the only way to describe Adelaide Metro, and the suburban services here. So to add into that the Mt Barker train service to say Goodwood on the SG would be asking for a miracle to happen and that just is not so here in Adelaide, the major gripe from all commuters here is the fact that it is so uncoordinated in the first place.
  CPH8 Locomotive Fireman

Growing up at Lower Mitcham in the mid 1950's, I recall that the Bridgewater train left Mitcham at 8.30 am and took exactly 10 minutes to Adelaide station with an Rx running express. The return express trip in the evening took a little longer because of the gradient. That was with five or six end platform carriages. And I seem to remember that 504 on its last run in 1964 took 38 minutes to run non-stop from Adelaide to Mount Lofty with a string of steel cars behind. Such is progress. With my backyard abutting the line at Angas Road, the Pinnaroo behind a 520 was my signal to leave for Unley High School.

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