Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 02 Jul 2019 08:35
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Raglan station (island) still exists and connected to the running lines if the various www photos are anything to go by.

Before dismissing the EMU connection, is there a difference in performance such that with the same stopping pattern, the DMU and EMU will have a different sectional times?

The reason I ask is because the whole anti argument is based on the EMU will take longer. But if the stopping pattern is the same and the performance the same then the only time lost is the change of trains.

The issue with running the DMU to the city is that its then lost for the day. No one is going to fund a 2 car DMU to head west at 10am in the morning. If the locals are happy with a single daily return train and the XPT and future XPT replacement so be it.

However if the locals would accept a transfer service where the timetable is basically equivalent or better than the DMU and at the same time they get a a say 2 return runs during the day, then let it be.

I think it will depend on what the future Dubbo XPT Replacement timetable looks like. If there are two services a day and they stop, Lithgow and all to Dubbo PLUS the Bathurst Bullet, then running through to the city and then likely sent elsewhere during the day is likely.
RTT_Rules
I think that there's no question that with a similar stopping pattern, the EMU would be marginally faster than the DMU because of its greater acceleration, but that's not really the issue.  The whole point is that the DMU would be faster running express if it didn't stop at as many stations as the EMU. There's no justification for a separate express EMU just to cater for Bullet passengers and perhaps some from Mt Victoria/Katoomba.

If the second Bullet through service is implemented, then the earlier service would form the afternoon return service to Bathurst and the later Up Bullet would form the current evening return service, reducing the layover time for each set in Sydney.

I don't see the need for the Dubbo XPT or its replacement stopping between Lithgow and Bathurst if the Bullet provides this service.  The intermediate stations wouldn't warrant it

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  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I think that there's no question that with a similar stopping pattern, the EMU would be marginally faster than the DMU because of its greater acceleration, but that's not really the issue.  The whole point is that the DMU would be faster running express if it didn't stop at as many stations as the EMU. There's no justification for a separate express EMU just to cater for Bullet passengers and perhaps some from Mt Victoria/Katoomba.

If the second Bullet through service is implemented, then the earlier service would form the afternoon return service to Bathurst and the later Up Bullet would form the current evening return service, reducing the layover time for each set in Sydney.

I don't see the need for the Dubbo XPT or its replacement stopping between Lithgow and Bathurst if the Bullet provides this service.  The intermediate stations wouldn't warrant it
Transtopic
It will be interesting to see how the Bathurst Bullet 2.0 rollingstock is supplied before CAF, but that's another thread.  Would seem a waste that the two sets only do 7h of service a day each.

As the two bullets head east in the morning, the XPT is providing the counter direction service and VV in the PM so I think its important that the two services provide an as required service stopping service to these towns. If the trains don't stop there is nothing lost, if they do, then great you have just provided a service with little negative impact.

Mt Vic does not need to be on any Bullet stopping pattern unless the locals want other wise. If you have a proper cross platform connection from DMU to EMU which there is currently not, then any Bullet users wanting to alight between Lithgow and Katoomba have the option of crossing the platform and catching the spark. Works for the Central Coast.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Raglan station is nowhere near ready for service. When the river at bathurst broke it's banks a few years back and an endeavour was the only way across the river there had to be a temporary solution provided because the station was not viable.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Second service starts in September, not long now.

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/bathurst-bullet-2-0-starts-september
  303gunner Beginner

A point touched on, but not fully explained, is that the Bullet is a NSW Trains INTERCITY service, ie no booked seats and passengers pay with OPAL card. The original reason Rydal and Tarana were not serviced by the Bullet is (get this) that they cannot be serviced if the train fails, or during planned trackwork.

Due to the lovely scenic, winding roads in the Tarana Valley, Coaches over 10m cannot get in there. While smaller 22 seat-type coaches can negotiate the few choke points, NONE of the contracted alternate transport coach companies provide these to Sydney Trains or NSW Trains (all 51 seaters for NSW Trains).

Passengers are required to have bookings on the XPT, and are supposed to give a contact phone number for the booking. When the XPT cannot convey booked passengers to/from Rydal or Tarana, the solution is a taxi provided from either Lithgow or Bathurst, which then connects with the Rail Replacement coaches. A phone call to the passenger sorts out the timings.

This is an impractical solution for "As required" stations where the passengers are not booked (ie the railway doesn't know if there is going to be anyone there or not, or how many). Do they send a taxi between Bathurst and Lithgow anyway on an All-Stations pickup run on the off chance there might be someone there, and if so what do they do if there are more people than will fit in that one cab? Do the people turn up at Rydal or Tarana stations at the timetabled time and read a sign which directs them to call a number to order a taxi from Bathurst or Lithgow, by which time the taxi eventually arrives and picks them up, they will have no hope in hell of making a connecting service in time.

You cannot promote/provide a public transport service knowing that there is no practible means of replacing that service during times when the train can't run.
  303gunner Beginner

And regarding stops on the Mountains, the stops at Springwood and Penrith are SET DOWN ONLY on the Up timetable, and PICK UP ONLY on the Down timetable. This is never observed or policed and the 2 car train is usually sardine full with lower mountains commuters who take the opportunity for an express run into town for their daily commute, despite having the option of other Intercity electrics from Springwood or suburbans from Penrith. Tough luck if you are a long distance traveller from Bathurst and get up to use the toilet, you lose your seat to an angry Sydney Commuter who doesn't understand you've got a 4 hour journey, that's of course providing you can worm your way through the jam packed train to the toilet in the first place and don't pack your dacks. (NOTE: a great trick used by homeless on trains to get yourself some "Personal Space"). The Bathurst Bullet was never introduced to be an additional express for western Sydney commuters. Best solution to removing Sydney Trains passengers is to have no stops at all between Katoomba and Sydney on the Bullet.

The problem is made worse on the evening Down service from Sydney with a 17:50 departure being oh-so convenient for office workers going home looking for a fast trip (quicker trip than "The Fish"), but for Bathurst residents the Bullet is the absolute last service back to Bathurst (incl the electric plus coach services via Lithgow) for the night. The train is again usually standing room only at Central, but mysteriously empty by Springwood. Bad luck to you if you are a country visitor to Sydney looking to get home that night, but can't physically get on board the train because of all the briefcase and suit types who got there 10 minutes before you. And remember the No booking-OPAL ticketing? There is no way to enforce the "Does not set down passengers at Penrith/Springwood" rule (still a penalty By-Law these days), because there is no way to check the ticket destination of passengers with the Opal card. Make it first stop Katoomba, that'll clear up some seats.

The one saving grace is that the first run of the Bullet from the depot in Lithgow out to Bathurst connects with the midnight electric out of Central. This is a handy service for Bathurst residents who have come to Sydney to see a concert or show, or sporting event, where the 17:50 departure is too early, and would force them to stay the night in Sydney if the train was stabled overnight in Bathurst.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

The one saving grace is that the first run of the Bullet from the depot in Lithgow out to Bathurst connects with the midnight electric out of Central. This is a handy service for Bathurst residents who have come to Sydney to see a concert or show, or sporting event, where the 17:50 departure is too early, and would force them to stay the night in Sydney if the train was stabled overnight in Bathurst.
303gunner

Interesting point..

Is this 'strategy' to have a night out in town known by the locals...or publicised accordingly Question

It seems to me this could be a strong selling point for those who don't want to risk driving.

Mike.
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.
Airvan99
Might be a long night, but never fear. That trip would be complete with on board entertainment.
Laughing
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW.
Airvan99
I would totally agree with this, the Lithgow has a nasty "lazy wind"
  a6et Minister for Railways

Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW.
I would totally agree with this, the Lithgow has a nasty "lazy wind"
Nightfire
I would find many other places in NSW to be colder than Lithgow, the worst with Lithgow though is with the station and the direction it faces in the middle of a deep cutting, when there is a wind blowing in the winter it howls down through the cutting making it a terrible spot.  When it had a RRR and engine changes were done there, the hot coffee and great pies helped make one feel warmer.

For me, the coldest and most miserable places in NSW that I believe are worse than Lithgow are Blayney, Walcha, Deepwater. Berrima Jct.  Orange whenever there is wind blowing in the winter, no matter the direction it always feels like it is coming off Mt Canobolos and there is snow on it.  Blayney is much the same even in Summer, went through there on many occasions, where daytime temps were up around 40degrees, during the day in summer, go through at night and with an old VW with the engine heater had to stop and light a fire to warm up before continuing..  Walcha, driving through there in the summer most homes had fires burning as you would see the smoke from the chimneys. Terrible place
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
A point touched on, but not fully explained, is that the Bullet is a NSW Trains INTERCITY service, ie no booked seats and passengers pay with OPAL card. The original reason Rydal and Tarana were not serviced by the Bullet is (get this) that they cannot be serviced if the train fails, or during planned trackwork.

Due to the lovely scenic, winding roads in the Tarana Valley, Coaches over 10m cannot get in there. While smaller 22 seat-type coaches can negotiate the few choke points, NONE of the contracted alternate transport coach companies provide these to Sydney Trains or NSW Trains (all 51 seaters for NSW Trains).

Passengers are required to have bookings on the XPT, and are supposed to give a contact phone number for the booking. When the XPT cannot convey booked passengers to/from Rydal or Tarana, the solution is a taxi provided from either Lithgow or Bathurst, which then connects with the Rail Replacement coaches. A phone call to the passenger sorts out the timings.

This is an impractical solution for "As required" stations where the passengers are not booked (ie the railway doesn't know if there is going to be anyone there or not, or how many). Do they send a taxi between Bathurst and Lithgow anyway on an All-Stations pickup run on the off chance there might be someone there, and if so what do they do if there are more people than will fit in that one cab? Do the people turn up at Rydal or Tarana stations at the timetabled time and read a sign which directs them to call a number to order a taxi from Bathurst or Lithgow, by which time the taxi eventually arrives and picks them up, they will have no hope in hell of making a connecting service in time.

You cannot promote/provide a public transport service knowing that there is no practible means of replacing that service during times when the train can't run.
303gunner
Wondabyne has been this way for a century, but I agree its a problem but in this day and age less of one if website details are up to date.
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

You cannot promote/provide a public transport service knowing that there is no practible means of replacing that service during times when the train can't run.
303gunner
What’s the problem with sending a couple of taxis to Rydal and Tarana on spec, on the few occasions that the train cannot run? The cost is low, and so what if there are no passengers. In any case the issues must have been resolved, as the service starts on September 16th.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.
Airvan99

The fortification of alcohol, the reason for taking the train in the first place can possibly deter any -10c frost at Lithgow.  Smile

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Not a big ask nor expensive to have a heated waiting room out of the wind.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

For me, the coldest and most miserable places in NSW that I believe are worse than Lithgow are Blayney, Walcha, Deepwater. Berrima Jct.  Orange whenever there is wind blowing in the winter, no matter the direction it always feels like it is coming off Mt Canobolos and there is snow on it.  Blayney is much the same even in Summer, went through there on many occasions, where daytime temps were up around 40degrees, during the day in summer, go through at night and with an old VW with the engine heater had to stop and light a fire to warm up before continuing..  Walcha, driving through there in the summer most homes had fires burning as you would see the smoke from the chimneys. Terrible place
a6et

I would agree with Walcha. My mother is from that town and a decade or so ago my family was up there for anzac day. On the monday we left to come home the battery in our car had frozen and we required the NRMA's help. My uncle also sent my mother photos of all the snow they had recently.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.

The fortification of alcohol, the reason for taking the train in the first place can possibly deter any -10c frost at Lithgow.  Smile

Mike.
The Vinelander
What century is your fossil from. This is 2019 and your not allowed to drink alcohol on trains.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.

The fortification of alcohol, the reason for taking the train in the first place can possibly deter any -10c frost at Lithgow.  Smile

Mike.
What century is your fossil from. This is 2019 and your not allowed to drink alcohol on trains.
simstrain
No allowed to ride without paying, vandalise, unsocial-able behavior, assault other passengers, go to the toilet, not in the toilet......you think drinking or getting on the train drunk will be a show stopper.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
For me, the coldest and most miserable places in NSW that I believe are worse than Lithgow are Blayney, Walcha, Deepwater. Berrima Jct.  Orange whenever there is wind blowing in the winter, no matter the direction it always feels like it is coming off Mt Canobolos and there is snow on it.  Blayney is much the same even in Summer, went through there on many occasions, where daytime temps were up around 40degrees, during the day in summer, go through at night and with an old VW with the engine heater had to stop and light a fire to warm up before continuing..  Walcha, driving through there in the summer most homes had fires burning as you would see the smoke from the chimneys. Terrible place

I would agree with Walcha. My mother is from that town and a decade or so ago my family was up there for anzac day. On the monday we left to come home the battery in our car had frozen and we required the NRMA's help. My uncle also sent my mother photos of all the snow they had recently.
simstrain
Your battery must have been nearly dead anyway.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.

The fortification of alcohol, the reason for taking the train in the first place can possibly deter any -10c frost at Lithgow.  Smile

Mike.
What century is your fossil from. This is 2019 and your not allowed to drink alcohol on trains.
simstrain
not so fossilized as you may imagine sims. You need to get out more.

Alcohol purchased at the buffet car is permitted on trainlink services.

Too bad that Bathurst get Endeavor instead of Xplorer.
The 2 levels of fitout for the same train perplexes me.

cheers
John
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It’s a long night, doesn’t get to Bathurst until 4.51am and includes an almost 30 minute change at Lithgow , possible the coldest place in NSW. Got to be keen to do that trip.

The fortification of alcohol, the reason for taking the train in the first place can possibly deter any -10c frost at Lithgow.  Smile

Mike.
What century is your fossil from. This is 2019 and your not allowed to drink alcohol on trains.
not so fossilized as you may imagine sims. You need to get out more.

Alcohol purchased at the buffet car is permitted on trainlink services.

Too bad that Bathurst get Endeavor instead of Xplorer.
The 2 levels of fitout for the same train perplexes me.

cheers
John
justarider
I was trying to be funny in that statement but in any case alcolhol is not permitted on the bullet as it isn't a nsw trainlink regional service and has no buffet.

The difference in the trains are that the endeavours were fitted out to be for local diesel services just outside of the electric network like bomaderry, the southern highlands and the hunter line. It was never meant to do long runs like the bathurst bullet or the long run from goulburn in to central. The Xplorer is for the longer distance services like Armidale, Goulburn, Broken Hill, Moree and the occasional dubbo xpt replacement.

I think you will find that even once the new fleet arrives the endeavour fleet will still be in use for the hunter line and probably bomaderry. The xplorer fleet can be converted to endeavours and even SG victorian services if the vic government wants some slightly used victorian made rolling stock to service albury and even mildura and western victoria!!!!!
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

For me, the coldest and most miserable places in NSW that I believe are worse than Lithgow are Blayney, Walcha, Deepwater. Berrima Jct.  Orange whenever there is wind blowing in the winter, no matter the direction it always feels like it is coming off Mt Canobolos and there is snow on it.  Blayney is much the same even in Summer, went through there on many occasions, where daytime temps were up around 40degrees, during the day in summer, go through at night and with an old VW with the engine heater had to stop and light a fire to warm up before continuing..  Walcha, driving through there in the summer most homes had fires burning as you would see the smoke from the chimneys. Terrible place

I would agree with Walcha. My mother is from that town and a decade or so ago my family was up there for anzac day. On the monday we left to come home the battery in our car had frozen and we required the NRMA's help. My uncle also sent my mother photos of all the snow they had recently.
Your battery must have been nearly dead anyway.
RTT_Rules

Nope. It was frozen due to -1 degree temperature. NRMA got the car started and then we just had to let the car run to warm things up for about 20 minutes or so before we could take off. The battery was fine once it was back in Sydney and since my brother worked for century we got it checked out and it was a ok.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Your battery must have been nearly dead anyway.

Nope. It was frozen due to -1 degree temperature. NRMA got the car started and then we just had to let the car run to warm things up for about 20 minutes or so before we could take off. The battery was fine once it was back in Sydney and since my brother worked for century we got it checked out and it was a ok.
simstrain
-A car battery won't freeze and if it does it will never work again as you have no acid or electrolyte in it.

I've live in much colder than -1C, I lived in L'ton Tas for 9 years, if my old 70's era cars didn't start in the morning (as cold as -5C) it was because the battery was on the way out. I'd roll start (always parked my car so I could) but it was short term solution, give it 6mth or so it was dead.

We spent Xmas in Finland this year, -22C on arrival, no issue starting the SKODA in the morning there as again the battery won't and cannot freeze due to the electrolyte's freezing point being much much lower temp.
  Hafenbahn Locomotive Fireman

Just as an aside, the Dubbo train was an Explorer set yesterday.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Just as an aside, the Dubbo train was an Explorer set yesterday.
Hafenbahn
yep that often happens when it isn't running to broken hill or griffith.

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