PLA entering Hong Kong?

 
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Looks ominous:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7354657/Hong-Kong-airport-reopens-overnight-clashes-mass-protests.html
Carnot

As I mentioned in the Trump thread, there are already 5000 PLA troops in Hong Kong - have been there for years.

I am seeing lots of pictures and tweets of trucks and convoys, but with no real context. Just scroll back to the Tweet with an image of trucks claiming they had already entered Hong Kong. Total bollocks.

And the Daily Mail as a new source..........seriously Shocked

Sponsored advertisement

  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Looks ominous:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7354657/Hong-Kong-airport-reopens-overnight-clashes-mass-protests.html

As I mentioned in the Trump thread, there are already 5000 PLA troops in Hong Kong - have been there for years.

I am seeing lots of pictures and tweets of trucks and convoys, but with no real context. Just scroll back to the Tweet with an image of trucks claiming they had already entered Hong Kong. Total bollocks.

And the Daily Mail as a new source..........seriously Shocked
bingley hall
It's on "Your ABC" too: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-15/satellite-photos-chinese-armoured-vehicles-shenzhen-hong-kong/11415740

It's pretty obvious they want to scare the HK Democracy movement first.  And if that doesn't work, well ......
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And to this day bingley hall seemingly still believes the amassing of German troops and materiel along its eastern border in August of 1939 was in the context of German military making a sightseeing tour of Poland in the early September autumn.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Looks ominous:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7354657/Hong-Kong-airport-reopens-overnight-clashes-mass-protests.html
Carnot
As Much as I hate the dailymail, there right on this one. Probably a show of force just in case they need to do another crackdown.
Also, PLA Troops have been stationed in Hong Kong since the British lease expired, Bingley Hall is right on that one.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
And to this day bingley hall seemingly still believes the amassing of German troops and materiel along its eastern border in August of 1939 was in the context of German military making a sightseeing tour of Poland in the early September autumn.
Aaron
And the Russians on Their polish border too. The difference is that Hong Kong is essentially an autonomous region of china that retains its governmental and economic structure from the colonial era. It's already been taken and has been for the bast 20ish years.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
And to this day bingley hall seemingly still believes the amassing of German troops and materiel along its eastern border in August of 1939 was in the context of German military making a sightseeing tour of Poland in the early September autumn.
Aaron

World War III is a'comin I tells ya Razz
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Accusations are flying in the local Chinese community regarding a fake 'permit' for a street rally in Melbourne in support of 'supporting the One China principle' - ABC;

A pro-China rally planned for Saturday in Melbourne to condemn the clashes in Hong Kong has been postponed after a letter claiming to be an event permit from the Melbourne City Council was confirmed to be fake.

A well-known local Chinese media outlet, Australian Red Scarf, first announced the pro-Beijing protests in Melbourne on their WeChat account last Friday, accompanied by an image of a letter saying the council approved the “Support One China Principle” event to be held at the State Library in Melbourne...

...It is unclear who originally posted the fabricated council letter on WeChat and what their intention is, but local Chinese media have speculated on WeChat that it was planted by a pro-democracy protester as “a trap” to lure pro-China protesters to rally on Saturday.

Sydney Post’s editor-in-chief, who writes under the penname Xiao Shi Yi Lang, published an article on Wednesday saying the pro-China protest planned in Melbourne was “actually a fake protest” and “a trap” designed by pro-democracy protesters to lure more people to their demonstration at the State Library on Saturday.

City Discount also published a report speculating that the fake letter was “very likely” to be “misinformation from separatist forces”.

I'm not sure what's really going on there, whether it was designed to lure CCP supporters out of the woodwork or if it was a genuine attempt to organise a pro-China rally. In either case there's no way that the local Chinese community are going to be able to avoid being politicised over the Hong Kong protests.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Again, I've said my piece, I don't want to live in a communist society and I don't want vestiges of it coming here. Our system is far from perfect but Maoism and Stalinism are far worse.
don_dunstan
Bit over the top. I'm pretty sure back in 1917 as an starving Russian peasant, oppressed factory worker, or poorly equipped soldier fighting the Germans you would have joined the revolution. Here you have no need to so it's rather irrelevant.

Anyone who opposes those of the presumptive right is left, when the left overthrow them, they become the right and anyone opposing them is left. Stalin became the new Czar and Mao was hardly the first to ruthlessly oppress dissent. "Let them eat cake" predates both of them.

China is what it is. As much as I feel for the demonstrators there's no escaping the reality of HK being part of China.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Approximately half my family have lived under communism, a reasonable number of my friends and colleagues have too, be they chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Hungarian, Croatian, Slovakian, Polish, Romanian, Ukrainian or Russian.

ALL of them have one thing in common.

NONE of them think communism was better, NONE of them want to go back to living under communism again.

It is absolutely astounding to me that some here still sprout the virtues of a system, despite the fact that they likely couldn’t find a supporter of who has lived through it.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

And let's not forget that Marxism has inspired thuggish Governments that might not even be fully fledged Communist. Ie. Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and elsewhere.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
And let's not forget that Marxism has inspired thuggish Governments that might not even be fully fledged Communist. Ie. Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and elsewhere.
Carnot
Yep the likes of "peoples govt" or "workers govt" has been a complete failure world wide for mostly the same reasons which is addiction to power by the former "workers, destroying economies with so called "workers" rights and/or spending money they don't have. We some of the later in some leftest Australian state and Fed govts to some degree.

Its also ironic that every socialist /communist govt that has ever existed in the world has had to be bailed out in some way shape of form by Capitalist country's of the world, usually western countries.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
And let's not forget that Marxism has inspired thuggish Governments that might not even be fully fledged Communist. Ie. Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and elsewhere.
Carnot
Zimbabwe, I can find no record of being Far left aside from the early years of Robert magabe regime. It was kind of justifiable as they were coming out being a South African Backed apartheid regime...reverse racism yeh getting rid of white minority rule. Are you going to talk about the poor white South African farmers next?
With Venezuela, that's Uber complicated. It's a democratic country that's very unstable thanks to the USA's continued attempts to oust its populist regime (I would not call it marxist either).  It's just that most of opposition do not want to work with the government and actively attempt to overthrow it. Thuggish? Maybe your referring too the Opposition who are filled with American neo-nazis and all that jazz. Yes that's a massive oversimplification.


Its also ironic that every socialist /communist govt that has ever existed in the world has had to be bailed out in some way shape of form by Capitalist country's of the world, usually western countries.
RTT_Rules
Proff? I don't see Cuba or Vietnam being bailed out? this it also ignores economic warfare against a bunch of economies. it also ignores how the Chinese sellouts are now the worlds biggest economy.

Yep the likes of "peoples govt" or "workers govt" has been a complete failure world wide for mostly the same reasons which is addiction to power by the former "workers, destroying economies with so called "workers" rights and/or spending money they don't have. We some of the later in some leftest Australian state and Fed govts to some degree.
RTT_Rules
You could argue the same for our liberal democracy too. As I have said the examples prior mentioned and your ignoring the Zapata Movement too. Thats a load of rubbish. Also the last line in that comment makes to coherent sense.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Approximately half my family have lived under communism, a reasonable number of my friends and colleagues have too, be they chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Hungarian, Croatian, Slovakian, Polish, Romanian, Ukrainian or Russian.

ALL of them have one thing in common.

NONE of them think communism was better, NONE of them want to go back to living under communism again.

It is absolutely astounding to me that some here still sprout the virtues of a system, despite the fact that they likely couldn’t find a supporter of who has lived through it.
Aaron
A bit one dimensional in your appreciation of history Surprised

When the majority of people are relatively well off and have legal and democratic rights you don't get socio-economic revolutions. Hardly the case in Russia and China. They had revolutions which were lead by those with communist ideology. By there nature revolutions aren't love-ins but they serve a purpose to a point.

I doubt any of your Russian friends and colleagues were peasants or factory workers in 1917 or Chinese ones during the 1930's so the relevance is what exactly?

Vietnam started as an independence movement. Had the West not backed France things may have gone differently. Ho Chi Minh became nothing more than a figurehead as more ruthless figures took charge.

The Baltic States and Eastern Europe were effectively occupied countries where Stalinism was imposed. For Poland occupation  was hardly new which is why they are fiercely independent and staunchly Roman Catholic. Russia treated these countries as vassal states and bleed them dry.

China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution. In Russia communism had run it's course. It is now lead by a former KGB boss, a triumph of democracy.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
Groundrelay
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
don_dunstan
The party says otherwise..
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
The party says otherwise..
Dangersdan707
LOL yeah right, there's no such thing as censorship in China.

And I'm Princess Margaret.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
don_dunstan
Even though they don't need to Pauline Rolling Eyes
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
The party says otherwise..
LOL yeah right, there's no such thing as censorship in China.

And I'm Princess Margaret.
don_dunstan
And I'm apparently Kusno Soekarno.

You read that wrong.

What I meant was they openly admit to censoring the internet and democracy in mainland china is extremely unlikely due to the Apparatus of the State in the PRC.

Anyway continuing on the language of this tangent  There is TOTALLY Nothing happening in East Turkistan out of the ordinary now and DEFIANTLY nothing Orwellian happening in any part of china.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
Even though they don't need to Pauline Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay
If they didn't Control the internet, They'd be in a much worse state than they are today.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
Even though they don't need to Pauline Rolling Eyes
If they didn't Control the internet, They'd be in a much worse state than they are today.
Dangersdan707
Yeah because the Chinese people wouldn't be able to handle the truth of their own government...
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
China no longer needs totalitarianism, maintained as it is under the guise of preserving the revolution.
If they don't need it then why do they control everything that people see on the internet?
Even though they don't need to Pauline Rolling Eyes
If they didn't Control the internet, They'd be in a much worse state than they are today.
Yeah because the Chinese people wouldn't be able to handle the truth of their own government...
don_dunstan
T'was reffing to the government, not the people. again we miscommunicate.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
And I'm Princess Margaret.
"don_dunstan"
Hey! Now you can tell us why you didn't marry Peter Townsend.Laughing
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
We don’t need to be told, we know why. Religion is stupid and Rosemary Pawle outlived him.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Proff?
I don't see Cuba or Vietnam being bailed out? this it also ignores economic warfare against a bunch of economies. it also ignores how the Chinese sellouts are now the worlds biggest economy.
Dangersdan707
Seriously, Could you have picked any more basket case economies, why not Venezuela?

Cuba is funded by tourism trying to save its economy after the USSR dropped it and Cuba's economy collapsed.
As income less than $30/mth
Average age of cars there is something like 60 years old.

Vietnam is funded by foreign, read mostly western investment and booming tourism, again heavily western.  
Average income is around $200/mth,
Almost no one can afford a car

China (which is neither socialist nor communist), is funded by foreign investment and turning itself into a slave factory for western demand mostly low cost items and copying capitalism and as such has more billionaires than EU and US combined.
Average income $1000/mth
If you don't work, you die.

You could argue the same for our liberal democracy too. As I have said the examples prior mentioned and your ignoring the Zapata Movement too. Thats a load of rubbish. Also the last line in that comment makes to coherent sense
Dangersdan707

Fact is few democratic free market economies have needed bail outs and their people live in significantly higher standard of living than nearly all socialist and communist countries. Just need to look at how life has improved in eastern Europe since the early 90's after a rough decade. Too much money wasted on socialist ideals that simple don't work and while they claim to focus on humanity, they ignore the very fabric of human thinking. ie people are naturally lazy and will take hand outs over work any day if they don't have the option to excel.

Back home, go through the financial position of Left vs Right wing govt at loss of power across the country at both state and Fed level, it may surprise you, hint social welfare programs need funding and borrowing from others is not the solution.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Seriously, Could you have picked any more basket case economies, why not Venezuela?
Cuba is funded by tourism trying to save its economy after the USSR dropped it and Cuba's economy collapsed. As income less than $30/mth Average age of cars there is something like 60 years old. Vietnam is funded by foreign, read mostly western investment and booming tourism, again heavily western. Average income is around $200/mth, Almost no one can afford a car China (which is neither socialist nor communist), is funded by foreign investment and turning itself into a slave factory for western demand mostly low cost items and copying capitalism and as such has more billionaires than EU and US combined. Average income $1000/mth If you don't work, you die.
RTT_Rules
They are doing very well in-fact considering the superpower the funded them till the 80's is gone and the nation that perviously made up 90% of its exports has had an embargo on them for over 50 years. And also Considering they're outliving the Americans now and survived that shows the resilience of their economic model. Tourism is now part of its economy. You also ignore the Successes of mixed economies such as NEP USSR and Yugoslavia (yes I'm aware that one was heavily loan based)
Thanks for the correction on Vietnam.
Also, that's why I called china Sellouts (Ha, Ha Money Joke).
Fact is few democratic free market economies have needed bail outs and their people live in significantly higher standard of living than nearly all socialist and communist countries. Just need to look at how life has improved in eastern Europe since the early 90's after a rough decade. Too much money wasted on socialist ideals that simple don't work and while they claim to focus on humanity, they ignore the very fabric of human thinking. ie people are naturally lazy and will take hand outs over work any day if they don't have the option to excel. Back home, go through the financial position of Left vs Right wing govt at loss of power across the country at both state and Fed level, it may surprise you, hint social welfare programs need funding and borrowing from others is not the solution.
RTT_rules
Doubtful, Large portions of Africa and Asia say otherwise to that and they use the same model. Your comment on Eastern Europe However is untrue, Living standard and life expectancy have declined since the collapse of the eastern block along with economic growth. Unemployment and Poverty have skyrocketed since the fall of the Curtin. The Counter argument to that generic comment is that people are naturally Altruistic, Both of these arguments are inherently flawed and can have holes easily shot in them. I never claimed that Borrowing was the solution to anything, state owned industry is and income caps I think is.


If you Wish to reply do so here, as this is off topic
https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11399271-0-asc-s75.htm

Just Waiting for the Tanks to be sent in under the Guise of 'restoring order and stability'.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: bevans, Big J, RTT_Rules

Display from: