New Griffith Service announced by NSW TrainLink

 
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Endeavours and Xplorers could still be used for certain services but the XPT's are definitely life expired and will be retired.
simstrain
They are all being replaced by the new CAF trains. I do not know where the thought that some Endevours/XPL will be kept are coming from. The CAF contract is a build/operate and maintain contract so there is no room for older models in the deal.

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  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
It will be interesting to see what this does to the Saturday services - in airlines it is found that doubling the frequency often more than doubles patronage given the service quality improvement to users.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It will be interesting to see what this does to the Saturday services - in airlines it is found that doubling the frequency often more than doubles patronage given the service quality improvement to users.
james.au
Agree, 3 x a week should be the target and min standard for a regional rail service.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Endeavours and Xplorers could still be used for certain services but the XPT's are definitely life expired and will be retired.
They are all being replaced by the new CAF trains. I do not know where the thought that some Endevours/XPL will be kept are coming from. The CAF contract is a build/operate and maintain contract so there is no room for older models in the deal.
nswtrains

Because I see logic is why. There isn't enough of the new rolling stock for all these new services unless the NSW Government orders 20-30 more of them at the very least.

There is now a second bullet, an extra bomaderry and a second griffith service confirmed and a future morning dubbo to sydney service is likely and so unless more of the new trains are ordered we are going to need the Endeavours and Xplorers to keep operating. If Transtopic wants his daily Griffith/Albury and Dubbo / Forbes services then we definetly will need to keep them.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I will leave open the possibility however of electrification to bomaderry and the southern highlands as freeing up enough rolling stock.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Endeavours and Xplorers could still be used for certain services but the XPT's are definitely life expired and will be retired.
They are all being replaced by the new CAF trains. I do not know where the thought that some Endevours/XPL will be kept are coming from. The CAF contract is a build/operate and maintain contract so there is no room for older models in the deal.

Because I see logic is why. There isn't enough of the new rolling stock for all these new services unless the NSW Government orders 20-30 more of them at the very least.

There is now a second bullet, an extra bomaderry and a second griffith service confirmed and a future morning dubbo to sydney service is likely and so unless more of the new trains are ordered we are going to need the Endeavours and Xplorers to keep operating. If Transtopic wants his daily Griffith/Albury and Dubbo / Forbes services then we definetly will need to keep them.
simstrain
The END/XPL cars are just past mid life and good for up to 2030, there should be a progressive order replacement to ensure the max return on those assets. I know the NSW govt has promised CAF's for everyone, but it should have been regional services with IU services getting the redundant XPL's to boost existing END services. A 2nd order can follow within 5 years of the expected retirement to replace the END/XPL factoring in adjustments required in the bush.
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

The END/XPL cars are just past mid life and good for up to 2030, there should be a progressive order replacement to ensure the max return on those assets. I know the NSW govt has promised CAF's for everyone, but it should have been regional services with IU services getting the redundant XPL's to boost existing END services.
RTT_Rules
It’s a fleet replacement, not a promise of CAFs for everyone. The XPL/End will be 30 years old, and owe the state nothing. See what happens.

The only new services confirmed are Bathurst 2.0 and Griffith, to be handled by the existing fleet, this month. Changes for Bomaderry are only speculation and promise of a passing loop.
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

And with the new Bathurst and Griffith services about to get started (and promises made about an extra Singleton train),  the current fleet must surely be stretched to breaking point.

I see that today's Brisbane to Sydney XPT was cancelled due to 'essential maintenance'.

From what I understand, this was not a breakdown per se, more that they simply did not have enough power cars available to do maintenance and provide all timetabled services.

I would surely expect that the current CAF order will be extended, assuming that the new trains are not lemons and budgetary constraints allow.
  LesS Train Controller

Location: Behind the Camera
The XPL fleet in particular are worn out from excessive overuse. It is proving to be impossible to keep the power cars operational. Over recent weeks I have seen the departure of services to Melbourne delayed by 2 hours or more due to essential emergency maintenance. I have seen the services to/from Brisbane & Grafton severely disrupted for the same reasons. I understand that a fleet of coaches is on permanent standby at Central every morning to cover catastrophic failures.
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

The XPL fleet in particular are worn out from excessive overuse. It is proving to be impossible to keep the power cars operational. Over recent weeks I have seen the departure of services to Melbourne delayed by 2 hours or more due to essential emergency maintenance. I have seen the services to/from Brisbane & Grafton severely disrupted for the same reasons. I understand that a fleet of coaches is on permanent standby at Central every morning to cover catastrophic failures.
LesS

Is that really true? - that coaches are at Central on standby each morning?

If so, then that's extraordinary; and not sustainable even in the short and medium-term.
Service cuts will soon have to be implemented, or permanent bustitution for some runs (at least until the new trains arrive).

I wonder if there is any scope to expedite the CAF delivery (Says I, somewhat naively,  knowing nothing about just where they are currently at with the replacement schedule).
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
The XPL fleet in particular are worn out from excessive overuse. It is proving to be impossible to keep the power cars operational. Over recent weeks I have seen the departure of services to Melbourne delayed by 2 hours or more due to essential emergency maintenance. I have seen the services to/from Brisbane & Grafton severely disrupted for the same reasons. I understand that a fleet of coaches is on permanent standby at Central every morning to cover catastrophic failures.
LesS
XPL's do not go to Melbourne, Brisbane or Grafton. The XPL's are going great (Touch wood...). I think you mean the XPT's.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The END/XPL cars are just past mid life and good for up to 2030, there should be a progressive order replacement to ensure the max return on those assets. I know the NSW govt has promised CAF's for everyone, but it should have been regional services with IU services getting the redundant XPL's to boost existing END services.
It’s a fleet replacement, not a promise of CAFs for everyone. The XPL/End will be 30 years old, and owe the state nothing. See what happens.

The only new services confirmed are Bathurst 2.0 and Griffith, to be handled by the existing fleet, this month. Changes for Bomaderry are only speculation and promise of a passing loop.
NSWRcars
Bomaderry is not speculation. It is getting a passing loop at Toolijooa and will take 2 train sets after the loop has opened. Announcement is pending and should be very soon. Considering that the new fleet comes in 3 or 6 car sets there will not actually be enough of the new trains to cover everything. XPL's and Endeavours will be needed.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

Is reliability now woeful in the XPT fleet? On Friday 30th I went through Culcairn (by car) about 8:30 am and there was an XPT at the platform, with engines noisily running. There is no XPT timetabled for 8:30 am, so it would either be the Melbourne-bound service timetabled for 3:37 am delayed through malfunction, or the Sydney-bound service timetabled for 11:34 pm. Was it another failed service?
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

Is reliability now woeful in the XPT fleet? On Friday 30th I went through Culcairn (by car) about 8:30 am and there was an XPT at the platform, with engines noisily running. There is no XPT timetabled for 8:30 am, so it would either be the Melbourne-bound service timetabled for 3:37 am delayed through malfunction, or the Sydney-bound service timetabled for 11:34 pm. Was it another failed service?
mm42
The Facebook XPT appreciation group certainly makes for grim reading, with a plethora of cancellations (including while en route) and major delays in recent weeks both north and south. Not to mention semi-regular XPT replacement with an Xplorer on the Dubbo run. Makes me want to have a plan B if I am organising any travel in the weeks and months ahead (to avoid the dreaded bustitution) .

There must be some interesting conversations going on at management level about how long they can sustain this.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

At the risk of sounding like a broken gramophone, NSW Trains should dispense with XPT power cars and drop some pointy loco like an EL, RL or AN on either end of the trains with a power van in the mix. CAFs won't be on the rails for quite a while. Alternatively, get the Silver City comets out of museum duty in Sulphide Street and bring them into service. It is an example of luxury we don't get to see nowadays.
  M636C Minister for Railways

At the risk of sounding like a broken gramophone, NSW Trains should dispense with XPT power cars and drop some pointy loco like an EL, RL or AN on either end of the trains with a power van in the mix. CAFs won't be on the rails for quite a while. Alternatively, get the Silver City comets out of museum duty in Sulphide Street and bring them into service. It is an example of luxury we don't get to see nowadays.
ANR
What gives people the impression that there is a problem?

On the North Coast as I post, there are three XPTs, one on time, one 2 minutes late, one six minutes late.

The Southern line is closed for trackwork, but they generally show similar delay or lack therof.

The Silver City Comet, even if you could get spares for the obsolete Detroit 6/110 engines, couldn't run fast enough to keep to the table. Remember that the XPT power cars all got new engines from late 1999, so they are newer engines than the Explorers.

M636C
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

At the risk of sounding like a broken gramophone, NSW Trains should dispense with XPT power cars and drop some pointy loco like an EL, RL or AN on either end of the trains with a power van in the mix. CAFs won't be on the rails for quite a while. Alternatively, get the Silver City comets out of museum duty in Sulphide Street and bring them into service. It is an example of luxury we don't get to see nowadays.
What gives people the impression that there is a problem?

On the North Coast as I post, there are three XPTs, one on time, one 2 minutes late, one six minutes late.

The Southern line is closed for trackwork, but they generally show similar delay or lack therof.

The Silver City Comet, even if you could get spares for the obsolete Detroit 6/110 engines, couldn't run fast enough to keep to the table. Remember that the XPT power cars all got new engines from late 1999, so they are newer engines than the Explorers.

M636C
M636C
Well, you won't be seeing the all of the usual North Coast XPT trains this week, that's for sure.
The Grafton trains are cancelled for the first half of this week for 'essential maintenance'.

Some Melbourne trains today, in both directions ,are also bustituted for 'essential maintenance' (afte being grounded due to trackwork on the weekend). Canberra Xplorer trains running as normal.

There is a problem.
11:41 Sydney to Grafton XPT alterations.UPDATED 1 Sep 21:39
  • Ongoing
DetailsDue to essential maintenance, this service is replaced by road coaches from for the entire journey.
On Monday 2nd, Tuesday 3rd & Wednesday 4th of September.
NSW TrainLink apologises for the inconvenience.
  TomBTR Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Agree with the last. I was at Central today for a meeting at 1130. The Grafton train was cancelled and the announcements were directing passengers to the ticket counter and then to the buses on the western forecourt.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

I am seeing more and more XPLs on central west duties and I am not talking about Bathurst bullets.

Coincidence? I didn't think so....
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I am seeing more and more XPLs on central west duties and I am not talking about Bathurst bullets.

Coincidence? I didn't think so....
ANR
There is no compelling need for the XPT to service Dubbo. For the most part, it's only four passenger cars anyway, which is a wasteful use of two power cars.  They should just permanently assign the XPLs to the Dubbo service (assuming it's feasible in terms of stock availability) until the new regional fleet is introduced and leave the XPT fleet for the main north and south trunk routes.  I doubt if there would be much difference, if any, in journey times.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I am seeing more and more XPLs on central west duties and I am not talking about Bathurst bullets.

Coincidence? I didn't think so....
There is no compelling need for the XPT to service Dubbo. For the most part, it's only four passenger cars anyway, which is a wasteful use of two power cars.  They should just permanently assign the XPLs to the Dubbo service (assuming it's feasible in terms of stock availability) until the new regional fleet is introduced and leave the XPT fleet for the main north and south trunk routes.  I doubt if there would be much difference, if any, in journey times.
Transtopic
I agree, but I know politics is an issue as well as for some reason the XPL is seen as a lower standard over the XPT by the Dubbo voters.

I doubt the govt has the XPL's spare to do the job all the time. However they have plenty of spare XPT cars and this is where I think a year or so ago they should have bitten the bullet and acquired by what ever means two suitable locos to haul the Dubbo XPT until the CAF's are ready. Hell go out to contract to one of the private operators.

TENDER:
HOOK AND PULL CONTRACT FOR 4 YEARS, NO LIKELY EXTENSIONS BEYOND 6 MTH.
1 X RETURN JOURNEY PER DAY ~900KM TOTAL (SYDNEY - DUBBO - SYDNEY)
TRAIN WEIGHT
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Endeavours and Xplorers could still be used for certain services but the XPT's are definitely life expired and will be retired.
They are all being replaced by the new CAF trains. I do not know where the thought that some Endevours/XPL will be kept are coming from. The CAF contract is a build/operate and maintain contract so there is no room for older models in the deal.
nswtrains
Not True!

At a forum in Goulburn on 29th July it was finally acknowledged by senior TfNSW and Trainlink bureaucrats that only 10 Endeavour replacement sets are provided for.  Set makeups of the XPT/Xplorer/Endeavour replacements indicated a four set shortfall.  This has now been confirmed.  This is despite an earlier media release advising all XPT/Xplorer/Endeavour sets are to be replaced.

Can't trust anyone on the RRP team.  Maybe they are misleading the government/minister too.

Here's hoping,

John
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Endeavours and Xplorers could still be used for certain services but the XPT's are definitely life expired and will be retired.
They are all being replaced by the new CAF trains. I do not know where the thought that some Endevours/XPL will be kept are coming from. The CAF contract is a build/operate and maintain contract so there is no room for older models in the deal.
Not True!

At a forum in Goulburn on 29th July it was finally acknowledged by senior TfNSW and Trainlink bureaucrats that only 10 Endeavour replacement sets are provided for.  Set makeups of the XPT/Xplorer/Endeavour replacements indicated a four set shortfall.  This has now been confirmed.  This is despite an earlier media release advising all XPT/Xplorer/Endeavour sets are to be replaced.

Can't trust anyone on the RRP team.  Maybe they are misleading the government/minister too.

Here's hoping,

John
c3526blue
Whilst I understand you are saying that there will be a shortfall with the replacement CAF trains, I am still sticking to what has been officially told to staff that the CAF trains will replace all existing traction units. I would take with a grain of salt what is said at a public meeting. No one is misleading the government/minister as they full well know what the true state of affairs are.

I really don't know how you can say "Not True" on the information you have. Of course there will be a transition period when the new and the old will run together and if more CAF trains are required then perhaps more will be ordered. They did order more NIF sets.
  LesS Train Controller

Location: Behind the Camera
My understanding is that the XPT power cars are worn out to the point of being sometimes beyond repair or beyond repair within the required timeframe.

The UK HST units have had a second engine replacement whereas ours have not. The UK units are not as intensively used as the XPTs.

That there will be less CAF sets than at present means that some services will be discontinued. There remains the issue of a second daily train to/from Dubbo.
  Jack Le Lievre Chief Train Controller

Location: Moolap Station, Vic

Some Melbourne trains today, in both directions ,are also bustituted for 'essential maintenance' (afte being grounded due to trackwork on the weekend). Canberra Xplorer trains running as normal.


craigfitz1
Trackwork was 0600 Saturday 31st of August until 1800 Monday 2nd of September across various locations between Moonee Ponds Creek Jct.-Joppa Jct.

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