Climate Change Action Day

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
- Are these the same adults who protested Woftein Dam (Qld)?
I don't know what this is? Perhaps you meant the Wolffdene Dam? For goodness sake Shane make an effort! And what on earth is a wako?
Graham4405
I did actually try, spent 5min looking up rivers etc trying to find the spelling, but alas its not a river, its just a dam of a place.

Ok, dropped the "C" on the 2nd one, my bad.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As for those adults, usually left leaning who are promoting alternatives to coal such as pumped hydro and even nuclear fission.
- Are these the same adults who protested the Franklin Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Lake Pedder?
- Are these the same adults who protested Mary River Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Shoal Haven Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Woftein Dam (Qld)?

BTW, the wako left from Vic are at it again, yesterday I stumbled on a website protesting against Snowy 2.0, among other unsupported claims it would increase coal power generation.
(1) It has to rain first, mate.

(2) Stumbled? That implies that you carried out a search for something different. Specifically, what was it? And, did you find it? And, once there, did it provide you with the gratification that you were so desperately seeking by reinforcing your prejudices?
DirtyBallast
1) Agree, hence why I think the future water solution for the western regions of NSW and SWQ is to put treated water over the range.

2) FYI - I was looking up if there were protests to the original Snowy scheme. Yes it did, it proved he idiots  will oppose their own solutions.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
ANY evidence for any of the above or just blind conjecture as usual? Adani has everything to do with providing Central Queensland with jobs and not much to do with bourgeoisie central Melbourne at all... just as you alluded.

It's all about jobs - geddit?
Typical short-termism.

Adani etc. enables, what, 3000 jobs? It and the others are large enough to affect the global price of coal.

Many pits, particularly in the Hunter region will then not be able to compete. 3000 job losses in that region will barely be the start of the rot.

Well done!
DirtyBallast
Hardly

Adani's impact on the global price is minor if noticeable at all.

Coal mines become exhausted all the time, so they need to be replaced. Now were those jobs in Oz or OS?  

As coal demand is still growing, this mine is not to replace an existing operation.

Adani is being built were it is because the price is attractive, but it was going to be built regardless. No protesting by the "blind faithful" in Melbourne was going to stop Adani buying coal, whether it be Australian or foreign.
  pvcommuter Station Master

On the desal, my recollection is that the planned cost was $3.5b and mucking around with metro stormwater reclaimation was $4.5b so the latter was a non-starter.

Desal is an unavoidable reality in Aus now. wa are on to their second I believe.

The backhander to Flannery 80m behind they play is weird. Not even ALP govts spend $3.5b based on advice of non-specialists. The water industry, engineering consultancies and the banks are the playmakers. The millennium drought was huge and if it had run at full tilt for much longer, it would have been very ugly for potable water supply for a whole lot of people.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Typical short-termism.
DirtyBallast
Spoken like someone with a good job in a big city totally unaffected by all this stuff.

Am I right?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Desal is an unavoidable reality in Aus now. wa are on to their second I believe.
pvcommuter
So in order to live on the driest continent on earth we have to spew carbon emissions big time just to get fresh water.

Perhaps the lesson here is that AUSTRALIA is uninhabitable in a traditional developed sense.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
On the desal, my recollection is that the planned cost was $3.5b and mucking around with metro stormwater reclaimation was $4.5b so the latter was a non-starter.

Desal is an unavoidable reality in Aus now. wa are on to their second I believe.

The backhander to Flannery 80m behind they play is weird. Not even ALP govts spend $3.5b based on advice of non-specialists. The water industry, engineering consultancies and the banks are the playmakers. The millennium drought was huge and if it had run at full tilt for much longer, it would have been very ugly for potable water supply for a whole lot of people.
pvcommuter
Yes, Perth has two making up to 37 to 48% of their total water supply, depending on which source you get the info from. Basically the bulk of humanity in WA is dependent on desal or part dessal water supply as they have about 10 locations supplied by local Desal.

Australia just needs to get used to the fact we have exceeded our water catchment water supply and we need to stop pretending and use the capital city plants nearly all the time rather than so called reserve.

Dubai obviously runs on something like 99% desal, largest plant in the world, but it runs off the waste heat from the gas turbines. Not sure why energy saving technology approach cannot be applied to Oz over the high pressure RO technology.

Storm water catchment is complicated as the number of locations to collect from is large and you need to put in high capacity pumps and large diameter piping to be laid across the city as suitable treatment plants cannot always be built where the storm water is and of course when you are in a drought, rainfall is less and the treatment process is equally complex to desal.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Australia just needs to get used to the fact we have exceeded our water catchment water supply and we need to stop pretending and use the capital city plants nearly all the time rather than so called reserve.
RTT_Rules
That's rubbish, there's plenty of places that they can build more dams, they are just too frightened by the green movement to do it. In Victoria for example there's lots of places further up in the Snowy Mountains ideal for the construction of new greenfields dams but the greenies would have a fit.

So we ended up with a heavily polluting carbon spewing $32 billion "world's biggest desal plant". Nice one.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Did the Vic desal plant really cost $32 billion? FMD.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Plus the huge cost per day just to keep it sitting there doing nothing most of the time.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Plus the huge cost per day just to keep it sitting there doing nothing most of the time.
Donald
1.8 million a day I think
iirc its been in near constant use since 2017 now, with at least 215 GL being ordered from it
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Plus the huge cost per day just to keep it sitting there doing nothing most of the time.
1.8 million a day I think
iirc its been in near constant use since 2017 now, with at least 215 GL being ordered from it
Dangersdan707
And poisoning many Melbourne residents with Boron in their drinking water.

Fortunately some Victorians live in regional areas....
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Tempetures are hotter, we are getting more and more droughts, and of course the sea levels is rising (I still haven't heard your comment on Nomo's Pacific island). and yet you use probably, not certainly. Are you against lowering pollution? or do you wish to suffocate in your own fumes, I'm guessing economics blind you.
Blah blah blah. The Maldives? The Pacific nations supposed to be underwater by now? Must be a different part of the ocean that doesn't have the Global Warming.
Call me naive but I Believe that we need a strong government planned transition to limit economic harm as I've said before, I'm not saying don't give the people work don, so don't try that. Tough on climate is a exaggeration, they just bend to the corrupt unions and not taking a side on Adani claiming to the melbournians that its not happening while telling the Queenslanders that its going ahead, get real labor was not tough on climate like you paint them to be. Crossetted enclaves in your home city too and across the country? 300k nationwide sure are enclaves and as a rural person who traveled to Melbourne I feel disgusted by your titanic generalisation. Is it ignorance or ideology that blinds you more? and I guess the world is flat and Antarctica isn't melting.
ANY evidence for any of the above or just blind conjecture as usual? Adani has everything to do with providing Central Queensland with jobs and not much to do with bourgeoisie central Melbourne at all... just as you alluded.

It's all about jobs - geddit?
don_dunstan
Ahhh yes the Constant Jobs and Growth we need blah blah blah, ignoring that we are on a planet with finite resources. Adani's proposal is inherently flawed and just have a look at there amazing track record it ya want to see how reliable they are for 'jobs and growth'. how much do you desire that and at what cost? anything?


All I hear Don from you and visualise is a man Blocking his ears and blah blah blah, everything I say is right.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Did the Vic desal plant really cost $32 billion? FMD.
Aaron
Total cost of the construction and operation by the private sector partners over the life of the project - the water is extra.

Metro Melbourne water bills went up by a fair chunk during and after the construction to pay for the folly - I was living there at the time.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
So much so you posted it twice.
In every bloody way, I could for one claim you're a LNP fossil sitting in Dubai out of the loop, enjoying your privileged lifestyle?
and also why Stereotype as a tactic to undermine your opposition. We can talk about the up-cycling/hipster culture vs fast culture para dimes that exist in the modern world.

I highly doubt anything will change with the LNP-Labor duopoly we have here at the next election cycle, they will both keep lying and deceitfully stabbing one another to bits. The Event (s) them selfs were fine and dandy with a great atmosphere and the best chant of the modern age 'ScoMo's a smeghead'. The Tribe will decide again, alas with the illusion of choice
LNP fossil sitting in Dubai living a privileged lifestyle.

So tell me genius, what is so more privileged about my lifestyle than doing the same job back in Oz?

Out of touch, I doubt it. Probably more in touch with the bigger picture.
RTT_Rules
See? what did I tell you about steroytyping and making assumptions about people you don't know!
I dont know anything about your life and thus I cannot comment on it. And You just Feel for it and my point now stands, don't Stereotype and make assumptions
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Ahhh yes the Constant Jobs and Growth we need blah blah blah, ignoring that we are on a planet with finite resources. Adani's proposal is inherently flawed and just have a look at there amazing track record it ya want to see how reliable they are for 'jobs and growth'. how much do you desire that and at what cost? anything?


All I hear Don from you and visualise is a man Blocking his ears and blah blah blah, everything I say is right.
Dangersdan707
If anyone here sounds ignorant its you - who cares about jobs and growth? You sound like a privileged spoilt brat in no need of a job, being cossetted and supported by someone else.

When you're an adult with adult responsibilities including paying bills and keeping a roof over your own head then I'll take you seriously.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
See? what did I tell you about steroytyping and making assumptions about people you don't know!
I dont know anything about your life and thus I cannot comment on it. And You just Feel for it and my point now stands, don't Stereotype and make assumptions
Dangersdan707
Get a job, get some bills to pay, act like an adult and then we might take you seriously. Until then you're just a self-important child with all the answers like that precocious Thurnbug brat.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Did the Vic desal plant really cost $32 billion? FMD.
Aaron
It was the single most expensive infrastructure project ever attempted by the VIC government and the design parameters were for the plant to be the biggest single desalination site in the world ... they didn't do it by half-measures and the financial incentives to build and operate were extremely generous including the relatively high interest rates paid by the VIC government on the borrowed money. As with many other VIC Labor Party rip-offs like Southern Cross Station it was the financial schemes that supported it that made it so expensive; Aquasure consortium gets paid $1.8 million per day by Melbourne water consumers just to have the thing there and available and that basic charge will be payable by Victorians until 2039.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
LNP fossil sitting in Dubai living a privileged lifestyle.

So tell me genius, what is so more privileged about my lifestyle than doing the same job back in Oz?

Out of touch, I doubt it. Probably more in touch with the bigger picture.
See? what did I tell you about steroytyping and making assumptions about people you don't know!
I dont know anything about your life and thus I cannot comment on it. And You just Feel for it and my point now stands, don't Stereotype and make assumptions
Dangersdan707
If you don't know anything about my lifestyle, then why even bring it up? Are you simply rambling on trying to side track the discussion because you have run out of excuses to defend the stupidity last week?

The comments about the kids is not sterotypical, its reality. Did you have traffic jams outside your school, mine didn't.

The fashion industry is the world's biggest pollution industry, something that all too many people today seem to quietly ignore and happy go on buying the latest and throwing it out the next day.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/make-climate-fight-sexy-says-japan-s-new-environment-minister-20190923-p52twb.html



Younger generation 1  

condescending old white conservative dullards    zip
  Carnot Minister for Railways

LNP fossil sitting in Dubai living a privileged lifestyle.

So tell me genius, what is so more privileged about my lifestyle than doing the same job back in Oz?

Out of touch, I doubt it. Probably more in touch with the bigger picture.
See? what did I tell you about steroytyping and making assumptions about people you don't know!
I dont know anything about your life and thus I cannot comment on it. And You just Feel for it and my point now stands, don't Stereotype and make assumptions
If you don't know anything about my lifestyle, then why even bring it up? Are you simply rambling on trying to side track the discussion because you have run out of excuses to defend the stupidity last week?

The comments about the kids is not sterotypical, its reality. Did you have traffic jams outside your school, mine didn't.

The fashion industry is the world's biggest pollution industry, something that all too many people today seem to quietly ignore and happy go on buying the latest and throwing it out the next day.
RTT_Rules
And not just pollution from burning fossil fuels.  Add to that water pollution from chemicals, excessive water consumption, pesticide use, microplastic pollution, etc etc.

Then again, if I saw a protester wearing a hessian bag or similar (and it was one of their few items of clothing), I would commend them on practicing what they preach.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Typical short-termism.
Spoken like someone with a good job in a big city totally unaffected by all this stuff.

Am I right?
don_dunstan
No.

But that never stops you, does it?
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
A lot of this Climate Change is about selling stuff.  Methane is a driver of Climate Change that is 37 times more powerful than Carbon Dioxide yet rarely features in advertising or products.  Also products such as electric vehicles never disclose the amount of Carbon Dioxide used in their manufacture.  To give another example it took until 2014 for the manufacturing processes used to create solar panels to consume less power than the panel produces in it's lifetime (yes it took more power to produce the panel than the panel could produce).

I live in a smallish town on the Murray River and went past our Climate Change protest and was disappointed by the lack of knowledge of the protesters on the issue they were protesting about when I spoke to them. Some Examples:

1) they claimed coal was only used for electricity production.  They didn't believe it was used in the manufacturing of other products (such as steel

2) they didn't realise oil was also used for lubrication and as part of other products (tyres, bitumen etc) and actually argued that I was wrong

3) manufacturing product and services doesn't cause carbon emissions!

4) if they recycle it's automatically carbon neutral (so the garbage and recycling trucks and transport of our waste products offshore don't cause carbon emissions)

5)  that plants use oxygen to live (that's right use, not produce oxygen out of Carbon Dioxide which is what they really do)

Then their actions demonstrated a 'do as I say not as I do' attitude.  some examples of that:

a) approx. 2/3 were drinking out of single use plastic bottles.

b) about 1/2 the group decided to get a coffee or food so got into their vehicles to drive the 150m to the McDonald's drive through where they sat with the motor running while they waited to order, paid, collected their products and even while in the Waiting Bays

c) one was going to purchase a new bicycle to replace the one he was riding. The rear tyre needed replacing so rather than replace the tyre he was going to replace the bike as "It's too old to fix".  Enquiries revealed he received the bike as a Christmas present in 2017 (so less than 2 years old) and because he was going to take the old bike to the waste transfer station the changeover was carbon neutral!

My experience with the whole green movement has left me cynical and jaded.  I will make up my own mind on what make sense.  When we were on acreage we were planting a heap of native trees each year.  We had a 1Meg water right we used to establish them but never used it all, just what we needed. One group wanted me to plant trees at a faster rate but never offered to purchase the trees nor help plant them.  A 2nd group came through (with some of the same people as the first group in it) and demanded I donate the water to environmental flows. When I asked how was I meant to ensure survival of the trees I had planted without water they replied "You are connecting 2 unrelated issues".

Other examples are Melbourne-based greenies telling me that taking water from the Goulburn River for Melbourne didn't affect flows in the Murray (even though the Goulburn river flows into the Murray not into the sea near Melbourne as they told me).  If they looked at a map they would see it enters the Murray upstream of Echuca.

Also the local indigenous people can tell you that the Murray River has often dried into a series of water holes in drought times and their culture adapted to it thousands of years ago. They also tell us the river redgum "wetlands" only flooded every 5 to 7 years and if it flooded more often it would kill the trees. This observation is supported by old-time sleeper cutters.  The Murray Darling Basin Authority and their supporters think it flooded every year, including drought. I don't know of a river that naturally floods every year without human intervention.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Typical short-termism.
Spoken like someone with a good job in a big city totally unaffected by all this stuff.

Am I right?
No.

But that never stops you, does it?
DirtyBallast
What "never stops with [me]'? The immanent destruction of the planet from climate change? Ha! Yeah sure, you can pin that one on people like me when the skies turn blood red and the four horsemen ride on in... but not in my lifetime I'm fairly sure. Hell, I'm still waiting for the cyclones as far south as Sydney and the oceans drowning the Gold Coast... our modern day Sodom & Gomorrah getting its just desserts courtesy of the Carbon Fairy. All that cocaine, blonde hair and boob jobs washed away - hooray!

But NO! Stupid bloody anthropomorphic climate 'scientists' can't even get that right... hell, Tim Flannery even bought a house on the Sydney waterfront recently (Manly beachfront in fact) so he obviously thinks all his doom and gloom about ocean level rises is a load of cr*p too.

Hey Dirty Ballast - just to clarify, is it short-termism to want more jobs in Australia? Looks like the last seven years of nil wages growth shows that we badly need some well paid jobs back on-shore, doesn't it - or isn't that your bag to worry about that kind of thing? Just curious.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A lot of this Climate Change is about selling stuff.  Methane is a driver of Climate Change that is 37 times more powerful than Carbon Dioxide yet rarely features in advertising or products.  Also products such as electric vehicles never disclose the amount of Carbon Dioxide used in their manufacture.  To give another example it took until 2014 for the manufacturing processes used to create solar panels to consume less power than the panel produces in it's lifetime (yes it took more power to produce the panel than the panel could produce).

I live in a smallish town on the Murray River and went past our Climate Change protest and was disappointed by the lack of knowledge of the protesters on the issue they were protesting about when I spoke to them. Some Examples:

1) they claimed coal was only used for electricity production.  They didn't believe it was used in the manufacturing of other products (such as steel

2) they didn't realise oil was also used for lubrication and as part of other products (tyres, bitumen etc) and actually argued that I was wrong

3) manufacturing product and services doesn't cause carbon emissions!

4) if they recycle it's automatically carbon neutral (so the garbage and recycling trucks and transport of our waste products offshore don't cause carbon emissions)

5)  that plants use oxygen to live (that's right use, not produce oxygen out of Carbon Dioxide which is what they really do)

Then their actions demonstrated a 'do as I say not as I do' attitude.  some examples of that:

a) approx. 2/3 were drinking out of single use plastic bottles.

b) about 1/2 the group decided to get a coffee or food so got into their vehicles to drive the 150m to the McDonald's drive through where they sat with the motor running while they waited to order, paid, collected their products and even while in the Waiting Bays

c) one was going to purchase a new bicycle to replace the one he was riding. The rear tyre needed replacing so rather than replace the tyre he was going to replace the bike as "It's too old to fix".  Enquiries revealed he received the bike as a Christmas present in 2017 (so less than 2 years old) and because he was going to take the old bike to the waste transfer station the changeover was carbon neutral!

My experience with the whole green movement has left me cynical and jaded.  I will make up my own mind on what make sense.  When we were on acreage we were planting a heap of native trees each year.  We had a 1Meg water right we used to establish them but never used it all, just what we needed. One group wanted me to plant trees at a faster rate but never offered to purchase the trees nor help plant them.  A 2nd group came through (with some of the same people as the first group in it) and demanded I donate the water to environmental flows. When I asked how was I meant to ensure survival of the trees I had planted without water they replied "You are connecting 2 unrelated issues".

Other examples are Melbourne-based greenies telling me that taking water from the Goulburn River for Melbourne didn't affect flows in the Murray (even though the Goulburn river flows into the Murray not into the sea near Melbourne as they told me).  If they looked at a map they would see it enters the Murray upstream of Echuca.

Also the local indigenous people can tell you that the Murray River has often dried into a series of water holes in drought times and their culture adapted to it thousands of years ago. They also tell us the river redgum "wetlands" only flooded every 5 to 7 years and if it flooded more often it would kill the trees. This observation is supported by old-time sleeper cutters.  The Murray Darling Basin Authority and their supporters think it flooded every year, including drought. I don't know of a river that naturally floods every year without human intervention.
HardWorkingMan
Interesting and unfortunately all too true too often. I'm sure they mean well while sitting in their car in the Macca's drive through to buy their coffee and bottle of water in a disposal cup and drink bottle wearing last weeks fashion with their latest iphone. I should post the comments of a friends daughter on his FB page which are very similar to above.

While I know some a genuine and try, most are just a rent a crowd looking for a day of school/work.  

Anyway, time to move on, this thread will likely last longer than the impression of the protests did.

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