Murray Basin standardisation

 
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Its worth noting that a new business plan is being put together for completing the project.  And if the Feds don't like it and don't cough up the cash, nothing will happen for many more years...

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  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Its worth noting that a new business plan is being put together for completing the project.  And if the Feds don't like it and don't cough up the cash, nothing will happen for many more years...
Carnot
So its the Feds fault, despite the fact Victorian government failed to manage the project adequately.

IM looking forward to the audior general report when it comes...
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
If BG runs this harvest/summer, it's going to be much more efficient on the Sea Lake & Manangatang lines compared to the Mildura line as they'll go straight up through Maryborough via Ballarat.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

So its the Feds fault, despite the fact Victorian government failed to manage the project adequately.
james.au

I don’t think Carnot meant it was the Feds’ fault, but rather that the state is not willing to cough up any more funds. I think everyone here fully appreciates this comes down to awful management from Treasury Place.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
If BG runs this harvest/summer, it's going to be much more efficient on the Sea Lake & Manangatang lines compared to the Mildura line as they'll go straight up through Maryborough via Ballarat.
cbinyon
This here is a key thing - if Vic doesn't at least make a faster SG connection between Gherinhap and Maryborough, theyve failed massively...
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
So its the Feds fault, despite the fact Victorian government failed to manage the project adequately.

I don’t think Carnot meant it was the Feds’ fault, but rather that the state is not willing to cough up any more funds. I think everyone here fully appreciates this comes down to awful management from Treasury Place.
potatoinmymouth
No I'm getting in ahead and commenting on a possible strategy the Vic Govt might use to worm out of it.
  501M Train Controller

Location: The Borough
Who would have thought moving one rail 165mm would be so difficult. Trust the Dan Andrews government to stuff this up so spectacularly.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I suspect the new business plan will also be a major part in deciding whether all the Vic freight lines are off-loaded to ARTC.

This Hansard from two weeks ago is worth a read:
http://hansard.parliament.vic.gov.au/isysquery/04db5e51-88a1-41b3-8a15-53112bf7549e/3/doc/
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
have a look at this new report from PN very revealing

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-48275/
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
have a look at this new report from PN very revealing

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-48275/
bevans
'.... Freight Victoria's Andrew Newman agreed.'
"That is true, and we are aware of the challenge there with the wheel width," Mr Newman said. .... '

The clown does not even know the difference between the wheel diameter and the tread width.

Look him up on Linkedin - you will not be disappointed.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This project is so bad I would be calling in the fraud squad for a complete investigation.  The amount of money spent with the return smells of one very large fraud.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Pacific National complaining about the state of rail infrastructure in regional Victoria - gotta love the irony.

And then everyone comes along and blames the government Laughing
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
This project is so bad I would be calling in the fraud squad for a complete investigation.  The amount of money spent with the return smells of one very large fraud.
bevans
The auditor general will be along shortly....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Pacific National complaining about the state of rail infrastructure in regional Victoria - gotta love the irony.

And then everyone comes along and blames the government Laughing
bingley hall

In can see the irony also but the fact remains the project was poorly managed and delivered which is typical of what we have seen the V/Line over many years. That fact remains.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Pacific National complaining about the state of rail infrastructure in regional Victoria - gotta love the irony.

And then everyone comes along and blames the government Laughing

In can see the irony also but the fact remains the project was poorly managed and delivered which is typical of what we have seen the V/Line over many years. That fact remains.
bevans
Yeah i somewhat agree - there is an irony but as I've said before, that was in the past and does that negate the ability of PN to comment on any further stuff ups that happen not on their watch?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
And again, seeing as no-one else seems to care about it:

"In its latest Status Report on the project, Pacific National estimated inadequate design and construction meant a maximum of only nine trains a week could operate on the Murray Basin network."

Currently:

7901V runs out Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights, returns as 7902V Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (six trains, or three return)

7903V runs out Tuesday and Thursday nights, returns as 7904V Wednesday and Friday (four trains, or two return)

At worst that's five return trips a week there, which equates to a maximum of four return trips in the same week available for any grain trains by the PN claim. That's less than one per day if you're believing what PN are claiming. QUBE (and SSR) have ran numerous times from Ararat to Birchip, loaded on the balloon loop and got back to Ararat within 24 hours NUMEROUS TIMES. And given that one train can be stabled away in a grain siding such as Birchip, Speed, Ouyen or Carwarp (not to mention the Murrayville branch) loading while another is passing it, as as happened since the line opened, how can that limit the maximum number of trains to nine in a week? Simple answer is that it doesn't!
  Carnot Minister for Railways

And again, seeing as it's a flat out lie that no-one else seems to care about:

"In its latest Status Report on the project, Pacific National estimated inadequate design and construction meant a maximum of only nine trains a week could operate on the Murray Basin network."

Currently:

7901V runs out Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights, returns as 7902V Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (six trains, or three return)

7903V runs out Tuesday and Thursday nights, returns as 7904V Wednesday and Friday (four trains, or two return)

At worst that's five return trips a week there, which equates to a maximum of four return trips in the same week available for any grain trains by the PN claim. That's less than one per day if you're believing what PN are claiming. QUBE (and SSR) have ran numerous times from Ararat to Birchip, loaded on the balloon loop and got back to Ararat within 24 hours NUMEROUS TIMES. And given that one train can be stabled away in a grain siding such as Birchip, Speed, Ouyen or Carwarp (not to mention the Murrayville branch) loading while another is passing it, as as happened since the line opened, how can that limit the maximum number of trains to nine in a week? Simple answer is that it doesn't!
Greensleeves
Maybe it's referring to 9 trains per week to Merbein with current PN rolling stock with 840mm wheel diameters?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
And again, seeing as it's a flat out lie that no-one else seems to care about:

"In its latest Status Report on the project, Pacific National estimated inadequate design and construction meant a maximum of only nine trains a week could operate on the Murray Basin network."

Currently:

7901V runs out Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights, returns as 7902V Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (six trains, or three return)

7903V runs out Tuesday and Thursday nights, returns as 7904V Wednesday and Friday (four trains, or two return)

At worst that's five return trips a week there, which equates to a maximum of four return trips in the same week available for any grain trains by the PN claim. That's less than one per day if you're believing what PN are claiming. QUBE (and SSR) have ran numerous times from Ararat to Birchip, loaded on the balloon loop and got back to Ararat within 24 hours NUMEROUS TIMES. And given that one train can be stabled away in a grain siding such as Birchip, Speed, Ouyen or Carwarp (not to mention the Murrayville branch) loading while another is passing it, as as happened since the line opened, how can that limit the maximum number of trains to nine in a week? Simple answer is that it doesn't!
Maybe it's referring to 9 trains per week to Merbein with current PN rolling stock with 840mm wheel diameters?
Carnot

Possibly but they're not specifying that. It was PN who decided to use those wagons (PQZY, REBY, RETY, RQTY, VQTY) on it anyway, they've still got plenty of other wagons with larger diameter wheels in general intermodal use they could have ran instead (NQKY, NQTY, RQAY, RQBY, RQCY's already used, RQGY, RQIY, RQKY, RQSY, RRKY, VQCY's already used). They could have also gauge converted the majority of the VECX and VEKX fleet that were being used on the BG train and upgraded them to 115kph speed, but went with converting RQNY's and RQTY's instead.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
And again, seeing as it's a flat out lie that no-one else seems to care about:

"In its latest Status Report on the project, Pacific National estimated inadequate design and construction meant a maximum of only nine trains a week could operate on the Murray Basin network."

Currently:

7901V runs out Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights, returns as 7902V Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (six trains, or three return)

7903V runs out Tuesday and Thursday nights, returns as 7904V Wednesday and Friday (four trains, or two return)

At worst that's five return trips a week there, which equates to a maximum of four return trips in the same week available for any grain trains by the PN claim. That's less than one per day if you're believing what PN are claiming. QUBE (and SSR) have ran numerous times from Ararat to Birchip, loaded on the balloon loop and got back to Ararat within 24 hours NUMEROUS TIMES. And given that one train can be stabled away in a grain siding such as Birchip, Speed, Ouyen or Carwarp (not to mention the Murrayville branch) loading while another is passing it, as as happened since the line opened, how can that limit the maximum number of trains to nine in a week? Simple answer is that it doesn't!
Greensleeves
I agree, Greensleeves, despite what ever shortfalls the program may or may not have, I thought PN's article seemed more like just a swipe at the Govt or sour grapes over something, perhaps their Pi$$ed off there's some competition now.

Any of us who skulk around on here should know that more trains than 9 per week have been cruising the rails, Greensleeves is the man who is out scouting the region for trains, Not Many of us are, so the ones bagging the project out come, please read above and then point out where all the shortfalls are.

If it's good enough for Greensleeves, who are we to challenge.

BigShunter.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Pacific National complaining about the state of rail infrastructure in regional Victoria - gotta love the irony.

And then everyone comes along and blames the government Laughing

In can see the irony also but the fact remains the project was poorly managed and delivered which is typical of what we have seen the V/Line over many years. That fact remains.
Yeah i somewhat agree - there is an irony but as I've said before, that was in the past and does that negate the ability of PN to comment on any further stuff ups that happen not on their watch?
james.au

It's not that long ago

They had their opportunity and they stuffed up and blackmailed the state government in taking back the degraded infrastructure.

Their concerns are valid, however if they are really serious then as the primary user of the Murray Basin corridors they should offer to take back the infrastructure or stump up some extra cash to make up for the funding shortfall.

They still have $50 million in the bank they agreed to pay for interstate upgrades about 20 years ago that has never been seen.

Offer to tip that $50m in and then I might begrudgingly accept that they have a point.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
And again, seeing as it's a flat out lie that no-one else seems to care about:
Greensleeves

'Lie' is a pretty strong word.

I don't think that PN have set out to deliberately mislead, it just highlights that they are as sloppy and bureaucratic as those behind the MB project. The report has been written by someone behind a desk, who has not gone within 150km of the project.

I would argue that the PN report and its subsequent treatment by a journalist just mirrors the same causal factors that have plagued the Murray basin project itself. Sloppy research and lack of checks and balances.

The report is riddled with the most basic errors, which have probably been amplified when 'translated' by the journalist.

As hinted to in my other post, I could almost begrudgingly accept that PN have a point, but if they can't get the basic facts right, forget it.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Possibly but they're not specifying that. It was PN who decided to use those wagons (PQZY, REBY, RETY, RQTY, VQTY) on it anyway, they've still got plenty of other wagons with larger diameter wheels in general intermodal use they could have ran instead (NQKY, NQTY, RQAY, RQBY, RQCY's already used, RQGY, RQIY, RQKY, RQSY, RRKY, VQCY's already used). They could have also gauge converted the majority of the VECX and VEKX fleet that were being used on the BG train and upgraded them to 115kph speed, but went with converting RQNY's and RQTY's instead.
Greensleeves
While I'm waxin' with Greensleeves atm, it would all but seem to me, as if PN, I won't say deliberately or callously converted the wrong wagons, to discredit the Govt or MBRP or both, pi$$ed of they have lost the monopoly of the line. Hmmm

Thank goodness someone has a finger on the pulse off what has really gone on, reminds me of Cocky Locky, the sky is falling.

BigShunter.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just as an aside - why does wheel diameter impact TAL loadings?
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
Just as an aside - why does wheel diameter impact TAL loadings?
james.au
Smaller contact patch with the rail, perhaps?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just as an aside - why does wheel diameter impact TAL loadings?
Smaller contact patch with the rail, perhaps?
TheMeddlingMonk
Yes that is a thought id had but was waiting for the experts.

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