Climate Change Confusion

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
For what it’s worth, 3% of 4ppm is a trivial calculation 120ppb or 0.12ppm.

In perspective, if you left Bill Gates with 120ppb of his approximate net worth of $104.3 billion - he would have approximately $12,516.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Another possibility I've heard of is putting sulphur very high into the atmosphere; this is what occurs when there's a large volcanic eruption anyway so it's kind-of 'natural'. And it will instantly cool the planet - we know this because its happened with previous large volcanic eruptions as discussed earlier.
don_dunstan
Why not just fine dirt?

of course the increase level of cloud from higher water evaporation may also do the same.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
For what it’s worth, 3% of 4ppm is a trivial calculation 120ppb or 0.12ppm.

In perspective, if you left Bill Gates with 120ppb of his approximate net worth of $104.3 billion - he would have approximately $12,516.
Aaron
Fund fact, that's roughly his net earnings every minute.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
1000's outside the office buildings in the Melbourne CBD today protesting and blocking traffic.  it is on a roll this climate action stuff.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Most of the protesters are arts students that haven't done a science subject since year 9.  It still takes them 7 years to do the gender fluidity course.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

And they're blocking trams that are powered by solar energy (via the grid).

Talk about kicking an own-goal!
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Most of the protesters are arts students that haven't done a science subject since year 9.  It still takes them 7 years to do the gender fluidity course.
And how do you happen to know that as a certain fact?
I Presume your Referring to the so called 'Extinction rebellion' group. The Make the Greens look like Conservatives on this topic.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Most of the protesters are arts students that haven't done a science subject since year 9.  It still takes them 7 years to do the gender fluidity course.
Donald
And how do you happen to know that as a certain fact?
I Presume your Referring to the so called 'Extinction rebellion'
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Another possibility I've heard of is putting sulphur very high into the atmosphere; this is what occurs when there's a large volcanic eruption anyway so it's kind-of 'natural'. And it will instantly cool the planet - we know this because its happened with previous large volcanic eruptions as discussed earlier.
Why not just fine dirt?

of course the increase level of cloud from higher water evaporation may also do the same.
RTT_Rules
Well I guess volcanic ash is the just extremely fine dust and sulphur anyway - but it does have a profound cooling affect on the global weather and temperatures. As we've discussed before the most recent 'explosive' volcanic eruptions in recorded history were Indonesia's Tambora (1815) and Krakatoa (1883) but there's evidence of much larger ones in ancient geological history: A large eruption in a system of caldera based at the Yellowstone National Park area about 620,000 years ago that ejected 1,000 cubic km of ash. To put that into context, Tambora was 50 cubic km and Krakatoa was 18 which makes those modern ones seem relatively tame by comparison - and there's evidence of even larger explosive events in North and South America that are up to eight times bigger.

Considering organic life on earth is estimated to be around 3.5 billion years old then it's pretty conclusive evidence that life can survive enormous variations in the climate that happen very quickly as it would have to with an explosive eruption. Tambora and Krakatoa spewed ash into stratosphere at a height of 50km, even larger eruptions would coat the earth at a huge height and take a long time for the planet to recover from. Again by comparison Tambora dropped global temperatures by 3 degrees celsius and caused famines all over the globe; Krakatoa by 1.5; in both instances it was 3-5 years before global temperatures went back to historical medians.

Things could change very quickly and millions could die and we have no real way of anticipating where or when; Krakatoa was such a sudden and violent event it caused huge tsunamis and blacked out the sun causing darkness all over south Asia for a few days, that in itself caused an estimated 120,000 deaths so why go around worrying about a bit of carbon dioxide!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
If you really want to feed your inner Jehovah's Witness then there's also the possibility of a supernova or an asteroid... but I guess you'd have to accept that God really hated us if she did that because nobody bar the barest organic life could survive some of the largest ones that have ever hit earth.

Just accept that the earth doesn't belong to us BUT carbon dioxide 'poisoning' is probably one of the least consequential things we're doing to the planet.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Volcanic ash is also a health hazard to aircraft engines. The classic case was flight BA009 from Kuala Lumpur to Perth in June 1982. The 747 ingested volcanic ash into all its engines and all four engines flamed out at 37,000 feet. The aircraft was down to 13,500 feet before one engine re-started, followed by the others one by one.

There may be considerable objections from the world's airlines to the idea of firing volcanic ash into the sky.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1000's outside the office buildings in the Melbourne CBD today protesting and blocking traffic.  it is on a roll this climate action stuff.
bevans
Your taxes are funding these oxygen theives
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Volcanic ash is also a health hazard to aircraft engines. The classic case was flight BA009 from Kuala Lumpur to Perth in June 1982. The 747 ingested volcanic ash into all its engines and all four engines flamed out at 37,000 feet. The aircraft was down to 13,500 feet before one engine re-started, followed by the others one by one.

There may be considerable objections from the world's airlines to the idea of firing volcanic ash into the sky.
Valvegear
there is a difference between a dust haze and flying directly into a cloud, anyway we didn't say use volanic dust.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Volcanic ash is also a health hazard to aircraft engines. The classic case was flight BA009 from Kuala Lumpur to Perth in June 1982. The 747 ingested volcanic ash into all its engines and all four engines flamed out at 37,000 feet. The aircraft was down to 13,500 feet before one engine re-started, followed by the others one by one.

There may be considerable objections from the world's airlines to the idea of firing volcanic ash into the sky.
Valvegear
As RTT said there's no need for the ash to be injected as well - but the idea that I read about was pure sulphur. I have no idea whether this would have unacceptable side affects such as limiting aircraft movements, really adverse environmental impacts etc. The science behind that idea could also get the calculations wrong and accidentally cause another mini-ice age.

There you go, yet another potential near-extinction event that would have nothing at all to do with excess carbon dioxide (?)
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
there is a difference between a dust haze and flying directly into a cloud, anyway we didn't say use volcanic dust.
RTT_Rules
Actually Don did mention it which is why I chucked in my two bobs worth.(But who cares anyway? It was only an aside).
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm sure the JW's at my front door and the stupid 'anti-carbon' people blocking traffic in Adelaide tomorrow will both be as astonished as anyone when this actually happens -
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Is there going to be one of these wastes of time in Adelaide tomorrow? Damn it! And to think, I was almost going to suggest that they had indeed gained some credibility by doing the protest on a weekend - then I realised that Victoria didn’t have a public holiday today...

Again, PRECISELY ZERO credibility in Adelaide - three whole days of weekend and they instead choose to do it on a work day instead.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Is there going to be one of these wastes of time in Adelaide tomorrow? Damn it! And to think, I was almost going to suggest that they had indeed gained some credibility by doing the protest on a weekend - then I realised that Victoria didn’t have a public holiday today...

Again, PRECISELY ZERO credibility in Adelaide - three whole days of weekend and they instead choose to do it on a work day instead.
Aaron
What a 3 day weekend and they still want to protest on a week day?

Aaron, I think you are presenting an unbalanced view on these oxygen thieves.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
there is a difference between a dust haze and flying directly into a cloud, anyway we didn't say use volcanic dust.
Actually Don did mention it which is why I chucked in my two bobs worth.(But who cares anyway? It was only an aside).
Valvegear
I suppose we could use the fly ash from the coal fired power stations, kills two birds Smile

Don suggested a report that mentions Sulphur, I can only think they are looking for a home for all the sulphur they remove from oil and Natural Gas.

Now, if you build a large scale PV solar farm, would it reduce the ambient temperature in that location?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
What's going on, if it isn't due to an environmental change which is dictated by climate change or man made activity?
The climate IS changing; how much of that is to do with anthropomorphic climate change is going to be almost impossible to separate from climate change that would have occurred naturally anyway.
don_dunstan
Not picking on you personally (for once...) but this attitude has been commented on more widely lately.

It has recently been suggested that in the past, deniers were deniers full stop. Now, it is common for them to acknowledge that climate change is actually happening, but the cause is denied.

At least you're on the right path.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I suppose we could use the fly ash from the coal fired power stations, kills two birds Smile

Don suggested a report that mentions Sulphur, I can only think they are looking for a home for all the sulphur they remove from oil and Natural Gas.

Now, if you build a large scale PV solar farm, would it reduce the ambient temperature in that location?
RTT_Rules
Sulphur being the substance that remains at high level stratospheric circulation for a while and keeps global temperature down; it's worked before. How do you inject sulphur at extremely high levels like that (without a volcanic eruption) and how do you as a planet agree that this is the correct solution?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What's going on, if it isn't due to an environmental change which is dictated by climate change or man made activity?
The climate IS changing; how much of that is to do with anthropomorphic climate change is going to be almost impossible to separate from climate change that would have occurred naturally anyway.
Not picking on you personally (for once...) but this attitude has been commented on more widely lately.

It has recently been suggested that in the past, deniers were deniers full stop. Now, it is common for them to acknowledge that climate change is actually happening, but the cause is denied.

At least you're on the right path.
DirtyBallast
The "climate" is extremely erratic and affected by loads of things not necessarily to do with the activity of people. Yes, releasing huge amounts of carbon dioxide is bound to have an affect on the climate but given that the global weather patterns etc are always in a constant state of flux then maybe our impact is over-stated. Certainly the psuedo-science of prediction has so far proven completely useless.

Even the IPCC issues revised forecasts every single year that have the latest 'update' on what they think will happen - and its the constant inability of this modelling to accurately predict the catastrophes they're talking about that chides with me. Think back 12-15 years ago; Arctic completely free of sea ice, Pacific nations actually going underwater, more frequent and severe cyclones further south (BOM reports cyclones are much fewer for some reason - is that also climate change?). Bushfires in 'unseasonable' locations - well we always get localised droughts and fires; as RTT pointed out earlier unpredictable weather is just part and parcel of living in Australia.

Given that the forecasting is always - ALWAYS - wrong you have to wonder why anyone listens to those climate 'experts' to begin with. I blame Flannery's alarmist forecasts 14 years ago for the enormous desalination plant kick that various state governments went on costing many tens of billions. As it turned out not needed at all - that scare-mongering diverted resources to where they weren't needed. How can anyone take him seriously after that?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Why are the Admin locking the "climate change" threads?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Why are the Admin locking the "climate change" threads?
RTT_Rules
Because they are Cancerous to read and people need time to chill off with the personal attacks. These Get very heated and personal.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.

Given that the forecasting is always - ALWAYS - wrong  
don_dunstan
As long as you are man enough to admit that being a pundit has similar shortcomings.

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