Geelong high speed rail and electrification

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
In 2016-17 there there 887,566 boardings at Tarneit compared with 541,400 at Wyndham Vale, which is the latest data available.

https://philipmallis.com/blog/2019/02/14/station-patronage-in-victoria-2013-2018/

Roughly speaking that would be about 5000 weekday boardings between them; even if all 5000 are in the peak 2 hours, if it's spread across 12 trains in that time we've still got oodles of room.

Any infill stations will probably draw most of their patronage away from the existing two when they get built.
potatoinmymouth

There are still HUGE tracts of land in this area yet to be developed, hence the government's recent emphasis on their infrastructure spend out west. Moreover, the tiny blocks of land that are allocated for new houses these days the population is only going to BOOM.

Forget about Little River only having a miniscule population...that's going to change very soon.

Mike.

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/PSP-status-map-February-2019.pdf

I think Little River is safe for now. The remaining areas for development (light blue) the government is in no hurry to build on, given the property market is already falling, and the dark blue areas have a lot yet to come.

Also, no one wanted to expand the UGB at the election, so I imagine the politics of it are not tracking well.

That's not to say there won't be a lot of growth out that way, but the locus of it will be inward of West Werribee Junction rather than further out.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/regions-unite-on-fast-train-strategy-20190608-p51vsd.html

What a surprise: they looked at all sorts of fancy options and decided sharing the airport tunnel and running along the existing alignment was the best strategy. Wonder how much that cost the councils.

edit: and, of course, all the usual hallmarks of a John Hearsch report: no cost-benefit analysis and outrageously lowball costings.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/regions-unite-on-fast-train-strategy-20190608-p51vsd.html

What a surprise: they looked at all sorts of fancy options and decided sharing the airport tunnel and running along the existing alignment was the best strategy. Wonder how much that cost the councils.

edit: and, of course, all the usual hallmarks of a John Hearsch report: no cost-benefit analysis and outrageously lowball costings.
potatoinmymouth
The report for the regional councils was prepared by Juturna Infrastructure , nothing to do with John Hearsch as you alledge .
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

All other times reflect informed assumptions by technical expertise in this field including the work and advice of senior members of the Rail Futures Institute. Transit times above Rail Futures Institute estimates as provided in its 2016 Intercity report are explained by Intercity assuming 130- 160km/h speeds, not 200km/h.
the report

Oh, sorry, it’s the Rail Futures plan plus a wild leap into even faster trains and more expenses.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
Does anyone know why they've put up two sections of overhead wiring at the Wyndham Vale stabling?


https://youtu.be/GSrgOSKSSZ8
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Does anyone know why they've put up two sections of overhead wiring at the Wyndham Vale stabling?


https://youtu.be/GSrgOSKSSZ8
Gauntlet
I assume it's for lighting, you can see similar structures at North Geelong and North Melbourne sidings.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Does anyone know why they've put up two sections of overhead wiring at the Wyndham Vale stabling?
Gauntlet
Forward planning for once, getting the infrastructure installed now for when its handed over to the sparks in the not too distant future to save on occo's etc.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The fishermans bend option is the best option in my eyes. If it is built with quadruplication between newport and werribee that small bit of track could add quite a decent chunk of capacity to the network.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Lara to Mernda and Geelong to Airport via Newport and Spencer St

Make it happen
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The fishermans bend option is the best option in my eyes. If it is built with quadruplication between newport and werribee that small bit of track could add quite a decent chunk of capacity to the network.
simstrain
Quadruplication between Newport and Werribee Is a lot easier said than done, due to the presence of petroleum pipelines beside the existing railway tracks (one reason why the RRL bypassed the whole lot)
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Does anyone know why they've put up two sections of overhead wiring at the Wyndham Vale stabling?
I assume it's for lighting, you can see similar structures at North Geelong and North Melbourne sidings.
John.Z
In this case I'd say it appears to be a proactive installation for future electrification.

Not sure about North Melbourne, but at North Geelong their lighting poles are pretty similar to roadway concrete median strip poles but with large halogen work lights, not overhead gantries as seen now at Wyndham Vale.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The fishermans bend option is the best option in my eyes. If it is built with quadruplication between newport and werribee that small bit of track could add quite a decent chunk of capacity to the network.
Quadruplication between Newport and Werribee Is a lot easier said than done, due to the presence of petroleum pipelines beside the existing railway tracks (one reason why the RRL bypassed the whole lot)
Nightfire
Maybe utilise the altona line some more then. duplicate that section and seperate it with the tunnel under fishermans bend.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
I went past the Wyndham Vale stabling yard again today and noticed that they've attached lights to the overhead wires in those two sections.
Today's video is at Flickr, but the link I normally use isn't working so you'll have to use this one -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123644991
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Similar to the lighting set up at Calder Park. Obviously someone thought it would be either cost effective to do it that way, or they've found it works better than having the lights mounted other places.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Similar to the lighting set up at Calder Park. Obviously someone thought it would be either cost effective to do it that way, or they've found it works better than having the lights mounted other places.
TOQ-1

Yes, same set up at Maddingley sidings.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Geelong City Council is pushing ahead with the project https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/geelong-council-pushing-ahead-with-plan-for-high-speed-rail-in-regional-victoria but Daniel Andrews says it is not technically and fiscally achieveable?
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

@bevans

Can you please read the article.

It states that Geelong’s “Stronger Together” proposal is not possible because it lacks a detail in it funding model.

The Federal Government goes on to say it is in discussions with the state on the delivery of the project. Then confirms it’s interaction with MARL between Southern Cross and Sunshine. Saying ‘This is the most complex and Expensive part of the project’

Facts before headlines please this isn’t the Hun.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@Lockie91 Hear hear. And the Feds still believe that building a high speed electrified corridor to Geelong can be done for $4Billion when the Regional Rail Link in 2014 with no Electrification and its scope was reduced significantly was completed for $3.65 Billion. Alan Tudge is dreaming.

Michael
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The detailed business plan from the State Govt isn't expected until next year.  Probably not much point discussing the finer details and costings until then.

There's a big difference between back of the envelope ideas and properly evaluated proposals.  Even then the Govt can completely stuff it up (MBRP a case in point).
  Engineeringlogic Station Master

I’m a big fan of fast to geelong, but I’m staggered that the preferred route is via Lara and doesn’t go direct via Avalon to allow for future growth.   This is a once in a generation opportunity to get it right an I fear we will miss out.  Imagine being able to go airport to airport with only a change at Sunbury.   That would be game changing! Link a new station at Avalon with Lara via light rail in the future, busses for now.  The list of benefits far outweigh the current proposal in my eyes.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I’m a big fan of fast to geelong, but I’m staggered that the preferred route is via Lara and doesn’t go direct via Avalon to allow for future growth.   This is a once in a generation opportunity to get it right an I fear we will miss out.  Imagine being able to go airport to airport with only a change at Sunbury.   That would be game changing! Link a new station at Avalon with Lara via light rail in the future, busses for now.  The list of benefits far outweigh the current proposal in my eyes.
Engineeringlogic
They would be upgrading existing tracks on the current route.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

I’m a big fan of fast to geelong, but I’m staggered that the preferred route is via Lara and doesn’t go direct via Avalon to allow for future growth.   This is a once in a generation opportunity to get it right an I fear we will miss out.  Imagine being able to go airport to airport with only a change at Sunbury.   That would be game changing! Link a new station at Avalon with Lara via light rail in the future, busses for now.  The list of benefits far outweigh the current proposal in my eyes.
Engineeringlogic
For someone called Engineering Logic you seem to lack some of it.

Why would a train go via an Airport which sees 5 flights to Sydney (10*200 = 2k people) and 2 to KL (4*400 = 1.6k people) per day (total 3.6k eligble pax), when it currently goes via a town with a pop of ~20k and growing rapidly.
  Engineeringlogic Station Master

I’m a big fan of fast to geelong, but I’m staggered that the preferred route is via Lara and doesn’t go direct via Avalon to allow for future growth.   This is a once in a generation opportunity to get it right an I fear we will miss out.  Imagine being able to go airport to airport with only a change at Sunbury.   That would be game changing! Link a new station at Avalon with Lara via light rail in the future, busses for now.  The list of benefits far outweigh the current proposal in my eyes.
For someone called Engineering Logic you seem to lack some of it.

Why would a train go via an Airport which sees 5 flights to Sydney (10*200 = 2k people) and 2 to KL (4*400 = 1.6k people) per day (total 3.6k eligble pax), when it currently goes via a town with a pop of ~20k and growing rapidly.
John.Z
Because i'm not building or planning for the next election cycle. Geelong is ~280,000 and growing rapidly, Lara is growing and Melbourne is tipped for 8M.  Avalon will be a busier airport in 20 years or so. Like freeways, ' build it and they will come'. Make Geelong and Avalon attractive to live in and people will move there. Enabling PT is a game changer. But we know that because we are on this forum ! Smile  They are not goingn to re align the train line in 20 years time, so why not do it right the first time?

Lara: Express and stopping all stations trains, lower fares, Avalon: highspeed, and pricier tix. Link the two.   simples!

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