Climate Change Confusion

 
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.

Given that the forecasting is always - ALWAYS - wrong  
don_dunstan
As long as you are man enough to admit that being a pundit has similar shortcomings.

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  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Polluting one part of the atmosphere purportedly to save another sounds like a winner of an idea. Does it return to the troposphere as acid rain?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Kitchgp, how is elemental sulphur going to cause acid rain? It’s quite stable and isn’t going to oxidise on its own.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I cannot edit posts from my phone, so I will separately say that I don’t think many forms of geo engineering have merit, and sulphur in the atmosphere is I think particularly lacking in merit.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I cannot edit posts from my phone, so I will separately say that I don’t think many forms of geo engineering have merit, and sulphur in the atmosphere is I think particularly lacking in merit.
Aaron
The general rule of thumb is "prevention is better than a cure".

The issue that so many of the pro-climate changers don't understand is the development and industrialisation time lags are measured in generation based time units.

The EV car industry is case in point, you cannot penalise the ICE car industry yet as the EV model range isn't diverse enough to do so. However you cannot penalise the car companies as most are waist deep in developlment and early stages of industrialisation already, there is not much they can do faster. The supply change for EV's is the biggest stumbling block. Tesla's predicted Lithium consumption in 2023 exceeded world production in 2016.

It will take until the mid 2020s before the industry is in a position to be able to penalise ICE cars over EV's, even without such a penalty, the market of EV's for new cars is expected to over take ICE by late 2020's to 2030. some however are saying this will happen sooner. However EV's will then take up to 10 years before their numbers exceed the ICE cars on the roads. Do we penalise poorer people driving older cars to get them off the roads faster, what about the sunk CO2 in used in the production of these cars?

Despite all the development and positive future for EV's, there is still a whole generation if ICE cars that will hit the roads between now and late 2020's for no other reason other than the buyers not having a choice for the type of car they need/want.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Most of the proposals are for hydrogen sulphide or sulphur dioxide. It seems incongruous that those that deny the view of the majority scientists, that the temperature is rising by 2oC as a result of mankind’s activities, should adopt as a backstop an unproven and risky solution by a few scientists that results in mankind lowering the temperature by 2oC. A volcanic winter, artificial or otherwise, or nuclear winter is not the answer.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Most of the proposals are for hydrogen sulphide or sulphur dioxide. It seems incongruous that those that deny the view of the majority scientists, that the temperature is rising by 2oC as a result of mankind’s activities, should adopt as a backstop an unproven and risky solution by a few scientists that results in mankind lowering the temperature by 2oC. A volcanic winter, artificial or otherwise, or nuclear winter is not the answer.
kitchgp
"shakes head at shock and dismay"

Ok, the whole Greenhouse effect hypothesis is based on the fact increasing the number of "V" and linear shaped molecules in the atmosphere which reflect infra red heat. ie

O=C=O
O=S=O
H-O-H (main source of greenhouse gas)
etc
also including CH4 and SF6

Why the @#$% would anyone think its ok to deliberately put SO2 in the upper atmosphere? Especially when its one of the pollutants that we have actually worked successfully to generate a long-term reducing trend and its not just Greenhouse gas (hello, Venus anyone?), but also acid rain, which was the primary driver for sulphur emissions removal systems.



https://sunshinehours.net/category/sulfur-dioxide/

The volcanic / nuclear winter is driven by dust levels in the upper atmosphere physically blocking the light.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Volcanic is sulphur dioxide as well. Mount Pinitubo and the likes are where the idea came from.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I pay such little attention to geo engineering ideas on climate that when posters here say ‘put sulphur in the atmosphere’ I just presume they mean sulphur - elemental sulphur and it’s a terrible idea. Sulphur dioxide or worse, hydrogen sulphide would be a plainly silly idea, just let the CO2 do its thing.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Aaron, like so much of the CC issue, debate, so much is pure bull #$^, that the credible scientists are all too often smothered by the others, all with their own agendas. All of which doesnt help the Climate Changes cause.

Which is why the striking over the last few weeks is doing almost nothing for the cause and the kids should stay in school and actually learn something.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Aaron, like so much of the CC issue, debate, so much is pure bull #$^, that the credible scientists are all too often smothered by the others, all with their own agendas. All of which doesnt help the Climate Changes cause.

Which is why the striking over the last few weeks is doing almost nothing for the cause and the kids should stay in school and actually learn something.
RTT_Rules
They have learnt something and that is why they are out on the streets.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Learnt something?
Superglue (toxin) on their hands.
PVC over their arms when linked together.
Plants in plastic pots.
Plastic milk crates (Stolen?).
Synthetic clothing.
Plastic glasses, hair pieces etc.
Nylon tents.
Gas fire for cooking their lentils.
Etc.......

Obviously not.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I agree with their cause.  But their hypocrisy and idiocy is telling, and they're in bed with the Communists and other assorted nutters.  That will backfire.

Meanwhile, the founder of XR flies off to a luxury new-age resort in Costa Rica for a holiday:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10123037/extinction-rebellion-founder-central-america-luxury/
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Learnt something?
Superglue (toxin) on their hands.
PVC over their arms when linked together.
Plants in plastic pots.
Plastic milk crates (Stolen?).
Synthetic clothing.
Plastic glasses, hair pieces etc.
Nylon tents.
Gas fire for cooking their lentils.
Etc.......

Obviously not.
Donald
I think you are confusing 2 groups here. RTT I believe was referring to the school students and you are referring to other more radical groups. What is your problem? School kids seen as some sort of threat to you?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I agree with their cause.  But their hypocrisy and idiocy is telling, and they're in bed with the Communists and other assorted nutters.  That will backfire.

Meanwhile, the founder of XR flies off to a luxury new-age resort in Costa Rica for a holiday:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10123037/extinction-rebellion-founder-central-america-luxury/
Carnot
I didn't think communists existed today. You are scraping the barrel now. I am sure some of you guys are journos for Murdoch's trash papers. Talk about old men feeling threatened by necessary change.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I agree with their cause.  But their hypocrisy and idiocy is telling, and they're in bed with the Communists and other assorted nutters.  That will backfire.

Meanwhile, the founder of XR flies off to a luxury new-age resort in Costa Rica for a holiday:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10123037/extinction-rebellion-founder-central-america-luxury/
I didn't think communists existed today. You are scraping the barrel now. I am sure some of you guys are journos for Murdoch's trash papers. Talk about old men feeling threatened by necessary change.
nswtrains
They prefer to be called "Marxists" and it remains the philosophy behind groups such as the Socialist Alliance, Socialist Alternative, and other extreme leftists.

They were holding up banners exclaiming "Burn Capitalism, Not Petrol!" etc etc...
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I agree with their cause.  But their hypocrisy and idiocy is telling, and they're in bed with the Communists and other assorted nutters.  That will backfire.

Meanwhile, the founder of XR flies off to a luxury new-age resort in Costa Rica for a holiday:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10123037/extinction-rebellion-founder-central-america-luxury/
I didn't think communists existed today. You are scraping the barrel now. I am sure some of you guys are journos for Murdoch's trash papers. Talk about old men feeling threatened by necessary change.
They prefer to be called "Marxists" and it remains the philosophy behind groups such as the Socialist Alliance, Socialist Alternative, and other extreme leftists.

They were holding up banners exclaiming "Burn Capitalism, Not Petrol!" etc etc...
Carnot
Classic hysteria.
How is this Communism?
Ahh, I see, Label anything left of liberalism as 'marxism', or 'lefty lunacy' or 'Corbynista'. That Sun article is absolute Conservative slanted trash. I cannot take any of its arguments seriously if they refer to vague groups and ideas such as these. Just a Beat-up, id expect anyone to see through this, despite the overwhelming hypocrisy of its leader. And too how are you informed on these groups beliefs? Perhaps from the slanted papers you Read? I say their just ignorant uni students bashing capitalism cause its 'cool' despite what they claim, they are the liberal party of marxism here.


FROM A COMMENTER WITH SEMI-MARXIST VEIWS (OH NO)
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
nswtrains, RTT is right, they need to be in school, and actually do some learning. If they have indeed ‘learnt something’ they clearly have not learned enough, and neither have the teachers or adults associated with them (I don’t know if they were their teachers or not - but I suspect they might have been).

There were a small group in Adelaide this morning walking up and down the mall - today is the alleged first day of the school term.

I was wearing a Synatom shirt - which if they had learned some French might have been a clue, and so I asked them ‘If we stopped burning all carbon based fuels today would we expect the rate of global warming to increase or decrease?’ And, ‘Why do you think that?’. Then I asked ‘What method do you think is the best way to remove existing excess CO2 from the atmosphere?’.

I am going to let the rest of you on this forum take a stab at answering those, needless to say that I have already suggested above that they have not learned enough, so it’s clear they got the answers wrong.

My first question was a 50/50, you can probably deduce what a bunch of school kids protesting about climate change might say so expected answer is maybe obvious, but the ‘why?’ is the challenge.

RTT_Rules, just for you, I don’t know what shape you think SO2 is, but it doesn’t contribute to global warming - quite the opposite... Still not one we want to have or geo engineer into the atmosphere though, but on reflection, after talking to the school kids today it might be required for a (hopefully) short term.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I really really really hate protesters, especially an uninformed ignorant treasonous rabble like this lot
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/eight-hour-day



should have been taken out and shot, must have been a very stressful time for our old white conservative leaders. Having their bottom line reduced, the nerve
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet

should have been taken out and shot, must have been a very stressful time for our old white conservative leaders. Having their bottom line reduced, the nerve
wobert
Is that ironically said or unironicly?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Aaron, like so much of the CC issue, debate, so much is pure bull #$^, that the credible scientists are all too often smothered by the others, all with their own agendas. All of which doesnt help the Climate Changes cause.

Which is why the striking over the last few weeks is doing almost nothing for the cause and the kids should stay in school and actually learn something.
They have learnt something and that is why they are out on the streets.
nswtrains
Hardly.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

RTT_Rules, just for you, I don’t know what shape you think SO2 is, but it doesn’t contribute to global warming - quite the opposite... Still not one we want to have or geo engineer into the atmosphere though, but on reflection, after talking to the school kids today it might be required for a (hopefully) short term.
Aaron

Then as usual on anything to do with CC, there are mixed messages on this. Regardless having it the atmosphere is not desired regardless if the issue it causes, I think we can agree and leave it on that.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I’ll explain the SO2 story in a future post (if the thread keeps open long enough) after the likes of pvcommuter (who likes to question what I know of atmospherics, despite the fact I am quite certain I have more quality education and research in it than him), Dangersdan707, wobert and others who like to suggest that those of us outside the totalitarian CC clique don’t have knowledge and science on our side to doubt the magnitudes of their claims.

Notably, the later two have already commented, but seemingly not bothered to attempt to articulate their superior understandings...

I’ll give it about a week and see who tries to formulate a response.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It’ll also be interesting to read something from gayspie, the OP who so far has only demonstrated he can quite a dictionary - as though the rest of us don’t know the meanings of those words and of course nswtrains who thinks the kids and protesters have it all understood.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka

should have been taken out and shot, must have been a very stressful time for our old white conservative leaders. Having their bottom line reduced, the nerveIs that ironically said or unironicly?
Dangersdan707
ironclad

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