All things Red Sets "Red Rattlers" and W sets "Sputniks"

 
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Some interesting photos posted on the NSWRailwaysPastAndPresent facebook page. These are the SETS owned red set cars, comprising a number of 7000 series Tulloch cars, C3237, Parcel Van C3660 or "Super Shunter C3994" which was in candy with superman logo, Bugsy C3650 and the W set McDonald's Taronga Zoo Train power cars C3714 and C3725. These cars were formally stored at Meeks Rd for many years until around late 2010/early 2011. The other 3 cars (C3650, C3660, C3237) joined them there around c. 2009 after a disposal of rolling stock in late 2008.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=274108006566089&set=a.274107356566154&type=3&permPage=1&ifg=1

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  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Some shots taken late 1980's showing preserved Parcel Van C3653 (then 3773) and a red set at Penrith. Credit to Barry Cooper for sharing

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NSWRailwaysPastandPresent/permalink/2699923453366784/
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Interesting video posted by Panic Stations Productions who attended an Open day for railway staff and their families at Flemington Maintenance Center. It shows F1 on display along with (likely to be preserved) motor car C3001 off S127, Waratah B7 and a V set. At 19:14 you also see probably to be preserved C3912 (off S66, the other 3 cars on this set were sent to Chullora for scrap about a week or so ago). It appears that C3912 is being prepped for a bogie change. There is also a shuttle run around FMC on CPH 27 which has been brought over from NSWRM Thirlmere - it is on lease to THNSW from the ex ARHS ACT Canberra Railway Museum. The HET electric sheds railway model train set is also on display.

Looking at the FMC and this open day that was organised, the whole facility is probably large enough to ideally be able to double as both a fleet maintenance centre as it currently and also a part maintenance/storage for preserved vintage electrics - as the number of preserved electrics is going to continue to grow with the retirement of the last of the S sets and V sets in the next few years, as well with more electrics being made operational over time. Although there will probably be some accommodation/setup at the newly announced Chullora Heritage Hub that will be electric friendly.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFF4J81m_aE
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

I've shared this video in the 46 class thread but well worth sharing here as there is plenty of footage of the preserved set F1 (then M1) and the 2 W Set zoo trains (Sesqui and Taronga Zoo/McDonalds).

The footage in this video shows a compilation of tours, initially a 46 class hauled tour to Zig Zag Railway on Saturday, 14 August 1993 followed by a number of F1 and W set Taronga Zoo Train tours, as well as footage aboard the W Set Sesqui Zoo Train.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kovfPlPEEg

- 17:55 shows SETS "Shooting Through to the Loftus Tram" tour Saturday, 11 December 1993 with ride on red set M1 (now F1) which shows a trip to Loftus with a stop at Cronulla along the way
- 20:50 shows a short cab ride in motor car C3102 followed by footage at the STM at Loftus and Royal National Park
- 27:05 shows the Red Set return to Loftus railway station to pick people up.
- 29:20 shows the Saturday 05 February 1994 "The Terminating Tour" with the red set as a 5-car set
- 32:20 shows the Saturday 05 March 1994 "Sputniks' Send Off" tour with the Taronga Zoo Train
- 43:30 shows some high speed running between Liverpool and Campbelltown with the Taronga Zoo Train
- 49:44 a brief glimpse of 3801 pulling into Sydney Terminal while the Zoo train pulls into Central
- 51:44 on 20 November 1993 the SRA held a final farewell to last single deck train for media featuring preserved Set F1 (then M1). Some footage also shown aboard the Sesqui Zoo Train on it's last day of service on this same day.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

A nice silent film posted by DaveSpencer32 on youtube. It shows the red sets in footage probably taken in the 1970's with a lot of mixtures of the red and blue and white PTC cars at Circular Quay and Central. There is also a sighting of the preserved 620/720 railcar set 629/729 (owned by Goodwin Alco and stored at RMS Paterson) and CPH Rail Motors 25 and possibly 27.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMiB7n5Jgks
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Some nice shots shared by Sean Cahill of Red Set F1 at Flemington Maintenance Center today

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NSWRailwaysPastandPresent/permalink/2988386204520506/
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Red Set F1 will be running on 28 April 2019 from North Sydney to Loftus where people will be able to alight and enjoy a day out at the Sydney Tramway Museum.

https://www.facebook.com/events/2107946779300073/
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

A lot of interest in the F1 trip from Nth Sydney to Loftus and Sydney Tramway Museum, numbers listed at 1142 - how many people car a 3 car F1 take? seems quite a few will miss out.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

East Coast Heritage Rail (formerly 3801 Ltd) office carriage C3704 was moved last night from Eveleigh, sold to a private owner on the NSW North Coast. Some info and photos of the car being loaded onto a truck. In case some people are wondering why it's not there any more. It was moved due to plans by Mirvac to re-develop the site. I assume this is probably connected with the sell off of the site which ultimately will fund plans for the Chullora Heritage Hub (correct me if I'm wrong)

https://www.facebook.com/3801limited/posts/2373298436275613
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

HET update post on THNSW News website with a photo of T4814 in NSW PTC Blue and White scheme. Indeed looks stunning. This update was posted in April, just came across it now

https://www.thnsw.com.au/news/het-electric-update
  Goose Chief Train Controller

East Coast Heritage Rail (formerly 3801 Ltd) office carriage C3704 was moved last night from Eveleigh, sold to a private owner on the NSW North Coast. Some info and photos of the car being loaded onto a truck. In case some people are wondering why it's not there any more. It was moved due to plans by Mirvac to re-develop the site. I assume this is probably connected with the sell off of the site which ultimately will fund plans for the Chullora Heritage Hub (correct me if I'm wrong)

https://www.facebook.com/3801limited/posts/2373298436275613
SydneyCider
It was bought by the son of the ex wash plant operator from Mortdale Car Sheds. It is now used for storage on a farm west of Taree.
  C3765 Train Controller

Red Set F1 started as a 4 Car Set bumped up to 6 Cars, returned to 4 Cars, went down to 3 Cars, returned to 4 Cars recently and will soon expand to 5 Cars with the addition of car T4554. Also with W3 returning to operation soon, there will be 4 operational heritage electric trains (F1, W3, S28, S56). When W3 returns it should be much easier to operate tours as they won’t need door monitors. Will be very exciting to see them in action.
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
Did the rattlers of the mid / late 20s onwards have electropneumatic brakes fitted or they did they have just basic automatic or straight air too ? Also were the bradfield cars later fitted out with EP or did they work on just automatic till the end ? Cheers
Remy Alonso
Standard Sydney Red Sets operate as standard Westinghouse automatic, however they also have an "EP (electropneumatic) Holding" feature.

Application is standard Westinghouse. A reduction in air pressure at the drivers' valve is sensed by a triple valve in each car which then directs air from the brake reservoir on each car, into the brake cylinders to apply the brakes.

However there is also an electrically activated valve attached to the exhaust port on the triple valve on each car. This is activated in the "EP Holding" position on the drivers' brake valve. This "holds" the air in the brake cylinders (hence "EP Holding").

The EP Holding feature allows the driver to release the brakes equally throughout the train at the same time, preventing the "bunch up" effect that otherwise takes place when operating under "pure" Westinghouse, where the front of the train normally tends to release first before the back does.

When released, the brake pipe is then charged from the drivers' brake valve in the normal Westinghouse way i.e. the triple valves recharge the brake reservoirs on each car, ready for the next brake application.

Just as with standard Westinghouse, a driver who does not regularly return the drivers' brake valve to "release and running" to recharge the brake cylinders, runs the risk of there being not enough air to recharge the brake cylinders. This in turn can cause dragging brakes or in severe cases, a runaway.

All electric cars including the Bradfields, were fitted with EP Holding brakes.

It should be noted that the W set cars (currently under restoration) work differently in that they have both "EP Holding" and "EP Application" valves on each car, which permit the driver to apply brakes from the main reservoir pipe of the train without using air from the brake cylinders.
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
For the first time this century, a Red Set F1 trip for Spark Fans - Sat 9th November 2019.

Long day trip, taking in the Airport line, Leppington and Richmond with plenty of platform photostops.

A feature of the trip will be taking the train right to the very end of the Leppington line to Leppington Yard (which is actually about 2km beyond the station), with pax onboard.

Tix on sale now.

https://www.123tix.com.au/events/5542/f1-the-airports-tour

Also, F1 will be reprising the trip to Loftus on Sun 13th October, but this time starting from Bondi Junction.

Tix also on sale now.

https://www.nswrailmuseum.com.au/vintage-electric-day-out

Enjoy.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

That's great. I was hoping they'd do something for the Carlingford line before it shuts down with either F1 and/or CPH Rail Motors because both these types of trains were highly prominent on that line during various times in history. Quite remarkable what has happened with electric heritage trains in the last 4-5 years. Based on older posts on these boards 8-10+ years ago if you told people not to worry and that things would be like this in 2019 eyes would probably water up. Not to get too off topic but I believe SteamRail Victoria has got/will get a huge funding package to return their "red rattler" to running condition for tours next year, so maybe they are where things were here in c. 2015. Some there are hoping one day their electric loco (L1162) will also run again.
  zordmaker Train Controller
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
That's great. I was hoping they'd do something for the Carlingford line before it shuts down with either F1 and/or CPH Rail Motors because both these types of trains were highly prominent on that line during various times in history. Quite remarkable what has happened with electric heritage trains in the last 4-5 years. Based on older posts on these boards 8-10+ years ago if you told people not to worry and that things would be like this in 2019 eyes would probably water up. Not to get too off topic but I believe SteamRail Victoria has got/will get a huge funding package to return their "red rattler" to running condition for tours next year, so maybe they are where things were here in c. 2015. Some there are hoping one day their electric loco (L1162) will also run again.
Our Victorian counterparts are planning to catch up on us with the Tait, yes - thanks to a $1.5m heritage grant from the feds. Now they have given them some dosh, we have some ammo to get them to give us some too.. hopefully to be put towards restoration of our U Boat.

They intend to use the Tait to operate a semi regular service to/from Puffing Billy. I really don't see how that's sustainable for any kind of heritage rolling stock myself, such an operation would be prohibitively expensive to maintain and need a whole fleet of Tait trains to operate reliably. Unlike here (and especially after the fire), they don't ecactly have a lot of spare Tait sets lying around to help build a fleet.

The 750v control voltage of the Tait is going to give them some headaches as far as standards are concerned. They may need to reconstruct the electrics to work on something more respectable and conventional.

Here in NSW, its hard to focus when just about every weekend there's either a F1 trip running, a work day on W3 or some other sort of thing going on. At least in Victoria they don't have all these distractions.

Yet.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Our Victorian counterparts are planning to catch up on us with the Tait, yes - thanks to a $1.5m heritage grant from the feds. Now they have given them some dosh, we have some ammo to get them to give us some too.. hopefully to be put towards restoration of our U Boat.

They intend to use the Tait to operate a semi regular service to/from Puffing Billy. I really don't see how that's sustainable for any kind of heritage rolling stock myself, such an operation would be prohibitively expensive to maintain and need a whole fleet of Tait trains to operate reliably. Unlike here (and especially after the fire), they don't ecactly have a lot of spare Tait sets lying around to help build a fleet.

The 750v control voltage of the Tait is going to give them some headaches as far as standards are concerned. They may need to reconstruct the electrics to work on something more respectable and conventional.

Here in NSW, its hard to focus when just about every weekend there's either a F1 trip running, a work day on W3 or some other sort of thing going on. At least in Victoria they don't have all these distractions.

Yet.
zordmaker

Would be great if the same could be offered here - should probably be more than enough for a 4 car U-boat? Unfortunately in VIC their electrified network is not as extensive as ours. They used to have the wires all the way to Traralgon and then they eventually cut that all the way back to Pakenham after their electric locos were ended in 1986-87. Perhaps had they constructed a fleet of interurban emus to go with their L class electric locos that may have justified keeping the wires but they only had the suburban electric emus to fall back on...so that was pretty much the end of that..

And yes, the fire was tragic and what was lost and we saw another senseless act at Canberra recently. Hopefully the Chullora Heritage Hub will be top-of-the-line in terms of systems in place. Sad that something like that has to be said. In terms of the preservation, it is really impressive how many of the cars were preserved. Between HET/ST/THNSW and SETS/it's members you could essentially form 2 x 4 car sets with all original windows and a 3rd 4 car set and close to a handful of spare beclawat power cars. Quite amazing that many were purchased. A lot of people just seem to really love those trains which is also evidenced back in the steam days when it was not uncommon for a steamer to haul a u-boat tour train beyond the wires. Interesting also with the New Regional Rail Fleet being part electric, if ever these somehow were to influence a push for extension of the wires beyond Lithgow or Kiama, I'd assume a U-boat would be able to fit through/go wherever a NRRF train could go under the wires based on size/clearances. More wires may not happen...but interesting none the less what the potential could be with a running set.
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
Between HET/ST/THNSW and SETS/it's members you could essentially form 2 x 4 car sets with all original windows and a 3rd 4 car set and close to a handful of spare beclawat power cars. Quite amazing that many were purchased. A lot of people just seem to really love those trains which is also evidenced back in the steam days when it was not uncommon for a steamer to haul a u-boat tour train beyond the wires. Interesting also with the New Regional Rail Fleet being part electric, if ever these somehow were to influence a push for extension of the wires beyond Lithgow or Kiama, I'd assume a U-boat would be able to fit through/go wherever a NRRF train could go under the wires based on size/clearances. More wires may not happen...but interesting none the less what the potential could be with a running set.
The only way a second standard set would see the light of day is if something like the North Sydney High Line project gets funded and is successful. That would require a separate set to be restored and used specifically for that purpose. It HAS been discussed.

In the end, the only thing that's going to get more cars restored, is regular bums on seats. The only reason F1 is successful now is because THNSW use it to bolster their ever important customer statistics - important because without them the Govt won;t keep coughing up money for things like Chullora.

To that point, an important test event is about to take place:

https://www.123tix.com.au/events/5542/f1-the-airports-tour

This is an event that a lot of people in THNSW/HET have said will not work because they don't think enthusiasts will support heritage electric train tours with their wallets and bums. So much so, that I have had to personally wear the financial risk on it by running it as a separate entity.

The proof is in the statistics. If this and other tours are supported, more will then take place. THNSW and HET will start to run their own. This in turn will increase demand for longer trains and more cars.

If not, then they'll just keep F1 as it is, at four cars - because it alone is enough to support current operations.

It's interesting to note that nobody has put their hand up to run anything using the recently preserved S Set. I have categorically stated the only way I'll run it is if other F1 enthusiast tours are successful first and even then, I'll only run it to destinations where F1 will not fit.
  C3765 Train Controller

Currently Sydney Trains/THNSW owns single deck cars: C3045 (THNSW), C3102, C3218 (F1), C3426 (F1), C3653 (Ex Brake Test Car), C7396 (F1), C7485 (Spare Parts for C7396), C3702 (W3), C3708 (W3), T4279, T4310 (THNSW), T4527 (F1), T4554, T4790 and D4673 (D4052).

Currently SETS owns single deck cars: C3082, C3104, C3444, C3714*, C3725*, C7489, C7465*, C7510, C7512, C7513, T4408*, T4609*, T4768*and T4771*.

*Not part of Sydney Electric Train Society’s Official Collection

Total of 29 Cars (19 Power Cars, 9 Trailer Cars and 1 Driving/Control Trailer)

It's interesting to note that nobody has put their hand up to run anything using the recently preserved S Set.
zordmaker

I think it would be a bit early for the S Sets to be used as they’ve just recently been used for the farewell tour and they are not as unique as the single deckers as of now, as K Sets and C Sets are still in service. However, on the weekend before the Carlingford lines closure or whenever suitable, the weekday timetable could be used just for the Carlingford where Ex S56 could be used to run roster 48 while F1 could be used for roster 49 so that two Heritage trains could be used. I heard W3 won’t be available for a while so it would be fitting to use the S Set as it is easy to operate and an S Set won’t be able to be used on the Carlingford Line after this opportunity. It would be nice if one of them was swapped out at some point with a CPH Rail Motor for more variety. At around 1pm run 48 retreats to the sidings at Clyde so that would be the perfect moment to switch the trains.

Wooden cars both at Rothbury. Yellow "Bugsy" ex HMC is at Molong. Not sure about the Tulloch DD.
SydneyCider

Thank you. I did a bit of research and I wasn’t able to find photos of them there, however I did discover that at least one other Bradfield car is at Rothbury. I couldn’t see the car number in the photo but it was a yellow car with two sliding doors, similarly to car C3662. Not sure if it is C3662 though. In the next few decades, instead of creating further standard single deck sets, I would prefer it if they restored and ran a 4-Car Bradfield Set (C3082, T4279, D4004, C36XX) although it would be difficult to restore and maintain. Hopefully, after the U Set is complete and the Chullora Heritage Hub opens, in about a decade or so we will see a full set running the network instead of waiting in the middle of nowhere.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
With all the recent fire activity at bilpin, does anyone know if the SETS storage area and carriages survived, it would be a shame if they got burnt out
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
With all the recent fire activity at bilpin, does anyone know if the SETS storage area and carriages survived, it would be a shame if they got burnt out
DCook
There has been no information yet, and will most likely not come anytime soon. There has been nothing from SETS in over a month!

But there is somewhere nearby, who has not been doing so good. That is the Zig Zag Railway.

Almost all of Clarence Station, except for the building itself is gone. All of the bush is black. Edgecombe siding is burnt, including Australia's oldest carriage. Which is now ashes. And so many other little bits and pieces are gone.

Lucky it is not as bad as the 2013 bushfires, thanks to the brave RFS Volunteers who saved the Railway!

The NSW Rail Museum has been very lucky, and the whole museum and their items survived!

But 80% of the surrounding area and local community are gone. And most likely there has been severe damage to the stations and tracks.

You can get more information if anything else comes up at the following Facebook pages: NSW Rail Museum: https://www.facebook.com/NSWRailMuseum/ Zig Zag Railway: https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/ SETS: https://www.facebook.com/setsAU/
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The zig zag railway damage, though significant and horrible, does not belong in this thread, there is already a thread in the preservation/tourist railways section

My question was about the SETS storage area

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