7 Western Sydney Metro station locations confirmed

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 24 Oct 2019 07:22
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Some have complained about the station locations since the announcement but why?

Having a station in your neighbourhood would raise your property values and provide an ability to get to the CBD and other areas easier than not having a station.

7 Western Sydney Metro station locations confirmed

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Some have complained about the station locations since the announcement but why?

Having a station in your neighbourhood would raise your property values and provide an ability to get to the CBD and other areas easier than not having a station.

7 Western Sydney Metro station locations confirmed
8077
Because some are born to complain.
  viaprojects Train Controller

Because some are born to complain.
RTT_Rules


they just found out on the news ... like the rest of Sydney..
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Because some are born to complain.


they just found out on the news ... like the rest of Sydney..
viaprojects
I'm not the biggest fan of the Western Metro but I don't have all the numbers either.

For example, extending the 6 track from Homebush, how much would it really cost? It needs to run to Westmead to above crossing paths etc, and likely as far as Blacktown, but Metro is only going to Westmead for now.

The Western Metro however does have some PLUSES
- eliminates the need for grossly inefficient Olympic Park trains, cost saving.
- As potential to connect to Rydalmere (assume near the current station), this should happen and addresses the issue for Carlingford line access to the city post closure of the line. Also providing a fast frequent service to the city, almost Greenfield station in its own right compared to now.
- Provides connection from Nth Strat to Paramatta, likely faster than current option.
- Greenfield 5 Dock station
- Greenfield Rozelle/Balmain station
- Greenfield Canada Bay district

Yes some will cry, "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LOSS OF SEATS compared to DD". For which the answer is its 15-20min to the city from Paramatta and the waiting time alot less, few read papers anymore, rather their phone, hardly a drama.

Yes express DD's will be reduced if not mostly eliminated to provide extra capacity from other lines.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Because some are born to complain.


they just found out on the news ... like the rest of Sydney..
viaprojects

More than likely they chose to ignore the community consultation process.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

People are complaining hecause the tunnelling will be shallow, and their houses will Craic....
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
People are complaining hecause the tunnelling will be shallow, and their houses will Craic....
ANR
How do they know if the tunneling will be shallow, thats detail design and there is a standard for how shallow a tunnel is allowed to get.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

WestConnex: Inner-west residents livid at depth of tunnels under homes - https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/closer-to-homes-sydney-residents-shocked-as-westconnex-tunnel-depths-shrink-20190129-p50ueb.html
Why would this metro project be any different?
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Sydney Morning Herald has been running an anti WestConnex campaign since the project was announced, on behalf of inner city residents who live close enough to city and jobs that, in the event of a bus strike, they can walk to the CBD. It seems they would prefer their pretty (and historic) suburbs to enjoy traffic jams and vehicle fumes, created by people who have to use cars/trucks, than to have these flows redirected underground.

Practical fact is that, although the majority of tunnels are built 20-50 metres below surface, it is simply not possible to connect such a tunnel to a surface road without at some point becoming shallower.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
WestConnex: Inner-west residents livid at depth of tunnels under homes - https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/closer-to-homes-sydney-residents-shocked-as-westconnex-tunnel-depths-shrink-20190129-p50ueb.html
Why would this metro project be any different?
ANR
...because the railway stays under the ground and access is via a lift and/or escalators which have a steep or vertical decline. Roads cars need no more than around 1:10'ish to access a tunnel and that porthole is MUCH bigger than a group of escalators..
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I'm not the biggest fan of the Western Metro but I don't have all the numbers either.

For example, extending the 6 track from Homebush, how much would it really cost? It needs to run to Westmead to above crossing paths etc, and likely as far as Blacktown, but Metro is only going to Westmead for now.

The Western Metro however does have some PLUSES
- eliminates the need for grossly inefficient Olympic Park trains, cost saving.
- As potential to connect to Rydalmere (assume near the current station), this should happen and addresses the issue for Carlingford line access to the city post closure of the line. Also providing a fast frequent service to the city, almost Greenfield station in its own right compared to now.
- Provides connection from Nth Strat to Paramatta, likely faster than current option.
- Greenfield 5 Dock station
- Greenfield Rozelle/Balmain station
- Greenfield Canada Bay district

Yes some will cry, "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LOSS OF SEATS compared to DD". For which the answer is its 15-20min to the city from Paramatta and the waiting time alot less, few read papers anymore, rather their phone, hardly a drama.

Yes express DD's will be reduced if not mostly eliminated to provide extra capacity from other lines.
RTT_Rules
I agree with the concept of Metro West servicing a new rail corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, but not as a solution to addressing congestion on the T1 Western Line, which is misplaced.  It won't.  I'd even question whether it's priority over a more effective upgrading of the existing Sydney Trains T1 Line is warranted.  However, that's not as sexy as a brand new metro line with all the bells and whistles.

The Metro West can stand alone as a new segregated rail link between Parramatta and the CBD through areas not currently serviced by rail, without misrepresenting it as a solution to resolving congestion on the existing network.  Rather than focusing on a faster journey from Parramatta to the CBD, which is a dubious claim depending on where your destination is in the CBD, they should instead increase the number of intermediate stations to expand its potential catchment area.  

There should be at least three more stations included at Camellia, Silverwater and Lilyfield/North Leichhardt as well as including Pyrmont.  I can't see the logic in the dog-leg to Rydalmere, when it will be serviced by the light rail route to Carlingford.  A station at Camellia will allow commuters from the Carlingford Light Rail Line to interchange to the metro. It makes you wonder whether the government is still committed to the redevelopment of the Camellia Precinct.

I'd also question the logic of a metro station at North Strathfield, allegedly to allow interchange from the T9 Northern Line to address congestion on that corridor.  Apart from commuters boarding at North Strathfield, who would bother changing?  A metro station at Strathfield as proposed in the original West Metro would be far more useful in providing interchange with multiple lines instead of just one.

Extending the 6 track from Homebush to Granville on the existing network would be a more useful means of addressing capacity constraints on the T1 Western Line, but I would go further in advocating that the additional track pair should be extended via an express tunnel to the CBD, connecting with the previously proposed City Relief Line from Eveleigh to Wynyard. It would have far more benefit for the broader network than Metro West.

In respect of your last sentence, I don't agree that the Metro West would reduce express DD services to the CBD.  That's predicated on the assumption that somehow DD services from the outer west would terminate at Westmead or Parramatta with commuters interchanging to the metro.  That's clearly not practicable, particularly in the light of the disruption to existing services in peak hours and the proposed locations of the metro stations at Westmead and Parramatta, which aren't exactly designed to provide a seamless interchange. It would make more sense if the additional DD services from the Outer West and Richmond Lines to meet the demand were able to continue through to the CBD via a new express track as part of the existing network.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I agree that the metro shouldn't be used as a capacity replacement for the T1 but this Government thinks it will be and isn't spending on expanding the current network.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I agree that the metro shouldn't be used as a capacity replacement for the T1 but this Government thinks it will be and isn't spending on expanding the current network.
simstrain
It's not a capacity replacement, it's a capacity supplement. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand, Craig. Metro West, unlike Tallawong-Chatswood, is there to supplement the existing trains, not to completely replace them. I will still be able to get from Parramatta to Olympic Park via Sydney Trains if I so choose. Metro will be a lot more convenient and faster, but I'll still be able to do it.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I agree that the metro shouldn't be used as a capacity replacement for the T1 but this Government thinks it will be and isn't spending on expanding the current network.
It's not a capacity replacement, it's a capacity supplement. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand, Craig. Metro West, unlike Tallawong-Chatswood, is there to supplement the existing trains, not to completely replace them. I will still be able to get from Parramatta to Olympic Park via Sydney Trains if I so choose. Metro will be a lot more convenient and faster, but I'll still be able to do it.
s3_gunzel
I think what simstrain means, and I agree with him, is that the metro shouldn't be used as a capacity replacement instead of constructing additional track for T1 between Parramatta and the CBD.  This would allow for an increase in services from the west of Parramatta, where the greatest overcrowding occurs, to continue through to the CBD without the need to interchange.  That's currently not possible without running more trains into Sydney Terminal and even that has limited spare capacity in peak hours.  

The article in today's Sydney Morning Herald highlights how the T1 Western Line has become the most overcrowded line on the Sydney Trains' network averaging train loadings of 150%, up from 139% the previous year, in the busiest hour of the morning peak.  Similarly, average train loadings have significantly increased on the T4 Illawarra and T8 Airport Lines.  In respect of T1, it's not just about overcrowding between Parramatta and the CBD, for which Metro West is purported to provide relief, but the whole of the Western and Richmond Lines.

As I've already said, Metro West can stand alone as a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network servicing a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, without misrepresenting it as the magic bullet to relieve the severe overcrowding on the existing network.  In fact, amplifying the existing T1 track should take precedence over the metro, which should be viewed as a longer term proposal.  The same goes for investment in amplifying track in other parts of the existing network.  Upgrading signalling alone won't be enough.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Metro will also be extended on its own alignmnet, in which it will likely take away some of the passengers of the current heavy rail.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I agree that the metro shouldn't be used as a capacity replacement for the T1 but this Government thinks it will be and isn't spending on expanding the current network.
It's not a capacity replacement, it's a capacity supplement. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand, Craig. Metro West, unlike Tallawong-Chatswood, is there to supplement the existing trains, not to completely replace them. I will still be able to get from Parramatta to Olympic Park via Sydney Trains if I so choose. Metro will be a lot more convenient and faster, but I'll still be able to do it.
s3_gunzel

I agree it should supplement but it is likely this government will try to turn it in to a capacity replacement system.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

As I've already said, Metro West can stand alone as a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network servicing a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, without misrepresenting it as the magic bullet to relieve the severe overcrowding on the existing network.
Transtopic

I don't believe this is true.  

If it were possible the Western Metro could make a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network as a standalone product servicing a new market, they wouldn't feel the need to make a 20min end to end run-time, and there would be more intermediate stations.

IMHO the route just doesn't have enough possible high density redevelopment sites to warrant the project for that reason alone, because of Sydney's harbour and it's geography.

The truth is, a $20b project will deliver NSW 1 new railway station (Five Dock), plus increase the sale price of public land to developers by no more than $20mil.

IMHO the sooner Rod Staples retires, or someone finds a JPEG of a naked woman put in the cache of of his computer by Google AdWords, the better.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Metro will also be extended on its own alignmnet, in which it will likely take away some of the passengers of the current heavy rail.
tazzer96
That would be true if it followed the existing T1 alignment from Westmead to say Blacktown with new underground platforms at the existing intermediate stations.  Even if one of the existing T1 track pair was converted to metro operation, it would leave the other to be shared between outer suburban, Intercity and freight, which I don't think would be feasible.  It would also be extremely expensive in needing to construct up to half a dozen new underground stations and frankly it's not needed if the T1 track was amplified from Parramatta to the CBD.

In any event, the current planning is to extend Metro West to the south west to Badgerys Creek.  The T1 Western Line runs in a north westerly direction towards Blacktown, so I doubt if a metro extension in the opposite direction would provide much relief for T1.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
As I've already said, Metro West can stand alone as a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network servicing a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, without misrepresenting it as the magic bullet to relieve the severe overcrowding on the existing network.

I don't believe this is true.  

If it were possible the Western Metro could make a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network as a standalone product servicing a new market, they wouldn't feel the need to make a 20min end to end run-time, and there would be more intermediate stations.

IMHO the route just doesn't have enough possible high density redevelopment sites to warrant the project for that reason alone, because of Sydney's harbour and it's geography.

The truth is, a $20b project will deliver NSW 1 new railway station (Five Dock), plus increase the sale price of public land to developers by no more than $20mil.

IMHO the sooner Rod Staples retires, or someone finds a JPEG of a naked woman put in the cache of of his computer by Google AdWords, the better.
djf01
I understand the point you're making djf01, but I should qualify my earlier remarks about Metro West being a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network, in saying that it would not be on the basis of the currently proposed scheme with a limited number of stations and an unnecessary focus on a faster travel time between Parramatta and the CBD.  

While journey times ultimately depend on where your destination is in the CBD, the existing fastest express journey from Parramatta to Central is 25 minutes, which could be improved even further with a more realistic timetable and upgraded signalling.  So they're just splitting hairs, when it all boils down to a difference of a matter of a few minutes.  They should just drop their emphasis on journey time as being the overriding consideration and instead maximise its potential catchment areas and patronage within the corridor by including more stations.  That's the model I'm suggesting would be a worthwhile addition to the rail network, but as a longer term option.  The more immediate need is to give greater priority to upgrading the existing network to address its deficiencies.

Couldn't agree more about Rodd Staples.  The man has a pathological hatred of anything to do with expanding the role of Sydney Trains and has had an overwhelming influence in the future direction of the rail network, favouring metro expansion as the be and end all, when other options should also be considered.  How anyone can suggest he can be compared favourably with Bradfield is beyond comprehension. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during his discussions with Howard Collins.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
As I've already said, Metro West can stand alone as a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network servicing a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, without misrepresenting it as the magic bullet to relieve the severe overcrowding on the existing network.

I don't believe this is true.  

If it were possible the Western Metro could make a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network as a standalone product servicing a new market, they wouldn't feel the need to make a 20min end to end run-time, and there would be more intermediate stations.

IMHO the route just doesn't have enough possible high density redevelopment sites to warrant the project for that reason alone, because of Sydney's harbour and it's geography.

The truth is, a $20b project will deliver NSW 1 new railway station (Five Dock), plus increase the sale price of public land to developers by no more than $20mil.

IMHO the sooner Rod Staples retires, or someone finds a JPEG of a naked woman put in the cache of of his computer by Google AdWords, the better.
djf01
Seems to have been designed with the development imperative in mind, lots of lovely land adjacent to the Parramatta River, vastly increases the value of the land as part of the deal as you say.

Lots of lovely gloss here from the NSW Government about how they especially selected the route after extensive consultation with the good old regular ordinary property developing citizens of NSW.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As I've already said, Metro West can stand alone as a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network servicing a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD through the Inner West, without misrepresenting it as the magic bullet to relieve the severe overcrowding on the existing network.

I don't believe this is true.  

If it were possible the Western Metro could make a worthwhile addition to Sydney's rail network as a standalone product servicing a new market, they wouldn't feel the need to make a 20min end to end run-time, and there would be more intermediate stations.

IMHO the route just doesn't have enough possible high density redevelopment sites to warrant the project for that reason alone, because of Sydney's harbour and it's geography.

The truth is, a $20b project will deliver NSW 1 new railway station (Five Dock), plus increase the sale price of public land to developers by no more than $20mil.
djf01
You still trying to blow that "1 NEW station agenda", its completely BS at proven many times before.

Additionally
The proposed line runs through various locations that are at expected and planned to be completely rebuilt into high density residential areas, think Green Square district.

Yes the line will provide additional traffic capacity between Paramatta and Sydney CBD's.

$20M, seriously????
So no increased revenues from existing properties that benefit from the new stations, yes we all know Sydney houses prices are positively affected by proximity to rail.

So no increase in revenues from new developments, no increase in stamp duty etc etc etc
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

You still trying to blow that "1 NEW station agenda", its completely BS at proven many times before.
RTT_Rules

@RTT_Rules unless calling something BS constitutes proof, and I dare say many on this forum seem to think it does, you've proven nothing.  It's not an agenda, it's a simple enough fact.  Five Dock is the only genuinely new greenfields station.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

You still trying to blow that "1 NEW station agenda", its completely BS at proven many times before.

@RTT_Rules unless calling something BS constitutes proof, and I dare say many on this forum seem to think it does, you've proven nothing.  It's not an agenda, it's a simple enough fact.  Five Dock is the only genuinely new greenfields station.
djf01

@Sims who disagrees.  Is that because you do think BS constitutes proof?
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

I know there is heated argument about the location of these new metro stations and how many houses will fall into the resulting sink holes caused by the construction (destruction).

My problem is the location of this thread. Why does it fall into the NSW forum and not Sydney? Last time I checked the map, Sydney was not a state, but a dot.

I guess the politicians of the day (or any day), would like us to think otherwise.

Metro is not going to help anyone outside of Sydney. Money should have been used in other ways.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know there is heated argument about the location of these new metro stations and how many houses will fall into the resulting sink holes caused by the construction (destruction).

My problem is the location of this thread. Why does it fall into the NSW forum and not Sydney? Last time I checked the map, Sydney was not a state, but a dot.

I guess the politicians of the day (or any day), would like us to think otherwise.

Metro is not going to help anyone outside of Sydney. Money should have been used in other ways.
ANR
Didn't you hear it from Paul Keating - anyone not living in Sydney is camping out.

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