Climate Change Confusion

 
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
C2, I think religion, or at least your belief in God is rotting your brain - you’re not alone, it’s quite a common affliction.

Firstly, all waves have energy, and all heat is just a form of energy so I am not sure what you’re trying to say.

We do not see waves, I explicitly told you this above, we see photons, there is recent physics to show that we can see individual photons, which means we can see the particle side of the duality.

Hadron is being built to observe among other things, sub atomic particles and their interactions. It’s pretty much the research with things like the Hadron that tells us what we actually see.

You also need to understand that Hadron and similar, all research across the field in fact isn’t being to understand what you don’t know, it’s being undertaken to understand what science doesn’t know. My correcting of your misunderstandings in physics doesn’t demonstrate that Hadron redundant, it just demonstrates that Hadron is being built/used to answer questions that you’re not even capable of formulating yet.

There a two words that you should learn that describe ALL ‘free energy’ machine’s - be they Tesla’s or anyone else’s - those words are ‘non existent’. Tesla was an amazing man, and I am a huge fan of his (I wish Musk would stop lowering the standard of engineering that Tesla should be synonymous for), but one of the many, many things that Tesla never discovered was a method of cheating the laws of thermodynamics.


Thermodynamics tells us that there is no free energy to be had, from Tesla or anyone else. If Tesla were alive today he would tell you the same, but in his absence you’ll just have to believe everyone else that knows this.

As for the other bull smeg about light and colours and chemicals and Kelvin, go and ask your year 8 science teacher. You post too much crap there for even I to bother replying.

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  allan Chief Commissioner

C'mon, give C2 a break. He's just like a climate change denier - he's got an alternative view of science!
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
For the last time,  no one denies the climate changes.   It is just that CO2 is not the one and only thing that is driving the change.
Remember man's contribution of CO2 is less than 3% of 0.04% of the atmosphere.   And Australia's contribution is 1% of that.
  allan Chief Commissioner

For the last time,  no one denies the climate changes.  
Donald
So you too don't read Don Dunstan's posts any more...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
For the last time,  no one denies the climate changes.  
So you too don't read Don Dunstan's posts any more...
allan
Hey, you people are the ones condemning the population to living in yurts on account of your irrational fear of the carbon monster. Do you want me to come over to your house tonight and check under your bed in case there's a really scary one?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Hey Don, please produce that magic eight ball, tarot cards or whichever other device you consult to predict the future and, post next weeks OZ lotto numbers.
All RP's can financially share in your wisdom.Laughing
Michael, I've explained repeatedly how all this stuff about carbon dioxide poisoning is in the tin hat league. You only have to look at the predictions from 15 years ago to realise these people couldn't predict the sun coming up in the morning. Yet we're supposed to cripple what's left of our economy spending tens of billions on a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
Don, you've converted me.
Doesn't nescessarly have to be lotto, the trifecta Flemington race 3. Quady Randwick race 7, I'm begging you, give me something.
Al Gore said no arctic sea ice....
don_dunstan
In fact, Gore never predicted that at all.

What he did do was quote the most extreme predictions of others, and in any case, was referring to summer Arctic ice cover only: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-caps-melt-gore-2014/

Jeez Louise, all you do is complain about predictions that don't come true yet the ones you hang your hat on to prove a point you have totally misinterpreted anyway. That's your failing, not theirs. In the meantime you make plenty yourself. PLEASE tell me what month/year/decade/century we will have to revert to living in yurts???

Put up or shut up.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
In fact, Gore never predicted that at all.

What he did do was quote the most extreme predictions of others, and in any case, was referring to summer Arctic ice cover only: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-caps-melt-gore-2014/
DirtyBallast
Splitting hairs.
Jeez Louise, all you do is complain about predictions that don't come true yet the ones you hang your hat on to prove a point you have totally misinterpreted anyway. That's your failing, not theirs. In the meantime you make plenty yourself. PLEASE tell me what month/year/decade/century we will have to revert to living in yurts??? Put up or shut up.
DirtyBallast
Why are you so determined to defend the stupidity of these people? The models are wrong, none of the catastrophic events predicted for 2020 are here; so he said no Arctic sea ice in the summer by 2020 - it's still wrong and he's still just another so-called expert who was WRONG. Flannery was wrong, Gore was wrong, end of story. People like you are so misty-eyed and romantic about the end of the world and the righteousness of your carbon cause can't bear to be told that you're wrong - but you are. It ain't gunna happen - all that will happen is that we'll force living standards backwards in this country until electricity and private transport becomes a luxury which is just around the corner.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
In fact, Gore never predicted that at all.

What he did do was quote the most extreme predictions of others, and in any case, was referring to summer Arctic ice cover only: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-caps-melt-gore-2014/
Splitting hairs.
Jeez Louise, all you do is complain about predictions that don't come true yet the ones you hang your hat on to prove a point you have totally misinterpreted anyway. That's your failing, not theirs. In the meantime you make plenty yourself. PLEASE tell me what month/year/decade/century we will have to revert to living in yurts??? Put up or shut up.
Why are you so determined to defend the stupidity of these people? The models are wrong, none of the catastrophic events predicted for 2020 are here; so he said no Arctic sea ice in the summer by 2020 - it's still wrong and he's still just another so-called expert who was WRONG. Flannery was wrong, Gore was wrong, end of story. People like you are so misty-eyed and romantic about the end of the world and the righteousness of your carbon cause can't bear to be told that you're wrong - but you are. It ain't gunna happen - all that will happen is that we'll force living standards backwards in this country until electricity and private transport becomes a luxury which is just around the corner.
don_dunstan
You are squealing so loud that you are incapable of understanding.

I said, I said, I said, Gore DIDN'T say no ice by 2020. He was quoting the most extreme predictions made by others, but you  continue to believe that the statement is attributable to him despite evidence to the contrary.

You said, you said, you said, we'd all be living in yurts soon.

I know which prediction is more whacko.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You are squealing so loud that you are incapable of understanding.

I said, I said, I said, Gore DIDN'T say no ice by 2020. He was quoting the most extreme predictions made by others, but you  continue to believe that the statement is attributable to him despite evidence to the contrary.

You said, you said, you said, we'd all be living in yurts soon.

I know which prediction is more whacko.
DirtyBallast
Al Gore made the prediction to a German TV audience during a climate conference on December 14 2008; specifically he said that there would be no polar sea ice by 2013. The video is still out there on YouTube if you look for it.

He is a fruit loop, a pretend scientist with no expertise or actual research knowledge and yet you still want to run out and defend him because you sincerely believe in the religion of the carbon monster.

Again, it ain't real. You can sacrifice as many goats as you like but the predictions are wrong, consistently wrong and they'll continue to be WRONG.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
For those of you who think renewables and presumably wind are the answers to our atmospheric CO2 problems this will make for very difficult reading for you, especially C2 who must now be wondering how Germany will economically make aluminium, no forget economics, how Germany will make any aluminium at all.

https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1665213/enercon-sends-distress-flare-germanys-wind-market-collapses?fbclid=IwAR1Gs1GaUUWMNKMFZKSELludS8EPGPgj3sneCG_Mhl2JGs8bAc3ViMzmajU
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Any confusion that recent fires and droughts are as a result of anthropological climate change have been eliminated.
A former rugby player, not interested in mentioning his name, has revealed God is responsible. Job done.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Regarding German aluminium production and RE

Guys, Germany is lucky to have an primary aluminium industry. Due to rising power prices prior to GFC, Hamburg closed, others previously although Hamburg was a surprise due to it being fairly new and modernised, but power price is everything to aluminium. There is 1 maybe 2nd other smelter still running.

Hamburg re-started under a privately held company operator in 2007 on the back of rising aluminium prices. Usual thing, told everyone if they wanted their jobs back take a pay cut and 10% need not apply. There was no shortage of workers who wanted to come back.

All up Germany's aluminium sector is around the size of Boyne or Tomago or 1/4 the size of my employer, take your pick, so small, but as the customer base is all local they benefit from short  and fast and typically higher end metal logistics chain, ie no inventories and minimal material in transit. BTW, the highest grades of metal used by Germany car sector come from my employer in middle east.

Today what the German smelting industry does is the "virtual battery". ie they reduce load up to 100% when power prices are high for up to 3h and increase production (less than 10% more than nominal) when power prices are low. Its the only way they can survive economically. A smelter in Wales, Anglesey did the same thing, so hardly new. Australian smelters have started to do similar to a lessor degree. Its not the best way to make aluminium but I believe it will be the future for the OECD smelter operators to help balance grid loads with growing RE variable supply and higher peaking prices.

No, you cannot run an aluminium smelter on purely wind and solar, combined or separate, its physically impossible, the science does not exist, you wouldn't even get past the first 24h on pre-heating your first pot or if you just switched an existing smelter over, likely first 24h. coupled to a hydro dam (SNOWY or Tas for example), yes, ability to access alt sources of electricity when needed, yes.  

For Hamburg to be able to operate on RE, what they would be doing is paying for their power off-set, a bit like Melbourne trams. ie they know how much power they need, they take that from the grid and they pay the RE operator for the off-set. But they cannot operate solely on RE. Have a look, Germany's wind farms load factors are not that great, less than 25% last I looked, at least Australia is pushing 35%.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
My predictions are wrong, consistently wrong and they'll continue to be WRONG.
don_dunstan
Laughing
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
My predictions are wrong, consistently wrong and they'll continue to be WRONG.
Laughing
DirtyBallast
It ain't me worshipping these unscientific celebrities.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
All of Germany’s aluminium production is renewable energy? smeg.

Statements like this prove that the wind and solar energy fans are off with the fairies, failing to understand the basics of how an electrical system operates.

Electrons are entirely anonymous and obey the laws of thermodynamics specifically, entropy.

Unless all of Germany’s aluminium plants are colocated with big smeg PV/wind farms and are entirely isolated from the rest of the German/European grid any statement on where the electrons are sourced is entirely meaningless.

However, The Guardian are not alone in their smeg understanding of energy, in the middle of the year I was shown a press release from the Victorian state government. It outlines how their tram network was now entirely solar powered ‘yes, even at night’. So I was watching AMEO’s feed about three nights later and surprise, surprise with Victoria in darkness, about 9pm EST we see the Ballarat battery go into negative supply (ie charge mode).

In what must be four months almost to the day since I sent correspondence to the Victorian Premier, Deputy Premier, and Ministers for energy and transport (infrastructure and public) I am yet to receive any response on whether the trams were stationary for for those couple of hours, running at night but indeed not solar powered, or running at night AND solar powered via Ballarat’s battery whilst it was charging - in which case there is a supplementary question regarding an explanation of what new of devilry chemistry exists in those batteries.

As typical of the ALP and Greens they have been big on the environmental claims, and absent on the facts.
Aaron
Aaron, have a read of this
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-01/act-is-100-per-cent-renewable-but-what-does-that-mean/11560356
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-01/act-is-100-per-cent-renewable-but-what-does-that-mean/11560356
wobert
What the ACT is doing is cherry picking RE energy to off-set its consumption of coal power when RE is not available, noting there is very little electricity generation within the ACT itself. It is physically impossible for the ACT to operate with 100% RE 100% of the time so if the coal and gas fired generation was to close tomorrow, the ACT would be in the dark for 6-12h a day, brown outs for similar amount.

It would not be possible for any of the bigger states, ie Qld, NSW and Vic to do the same any time soon, likely the next 25 years.  

2007 Gas and Coal accounted for 94.8% of the NEM
2018 Gas and Coal accounted for 79.3% of the NEM

Look at the effort, political fall out, cost etc to drop just 15%, the easiest 15%.
  wobert Chief Commissioner
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-01/act-is-100-per-cent-renewable-but-what-does-that-mean/11560356What the ACT is doing is cherry picking RE energy to off-set its consumption of coal power when RE is not available, noting there is very little electricity generation within the ACT itself. It is physically impossible for the ACT to operate with 100% RE 100% of the time so if the coal and gas fired generation was to close tomorrow, the ACT would be in the dark for 6-12h a day, brown outs for similar amount.

It would not be possible for any of the bigger states, ie Qld, NSW and Vic to do the same any time soon, likely the next 25 years.  

2007 Gas and Coal accounted for 94.8% of the NEM
2018 Gas and Coal accounted for 79.3% of the NEM

Look at the effort, political fall out, cost etc to drop just 15%, the easiest 15%.
RTT_Rules
UUmmm, yeah, right, ok, whatever.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/17/what-could-i-have-done-the-scientist-who-predicted-the-bushfire-emergency-four-decades-ago

But its all a conspiracy I tells ya.
wobert
So in a drought, an idiot with a match in the bush, the resulting bush fire is a result of climate change?

I would suggest in the major drought of the late 19th century the result would have been the same, the difference being
less idiots with matches and ability to waste such a precious resource, ie match
idiots were sorted out with or without police support, usually with.
less development to damage
less people to put it out
no cameras
No one calling the bush fire a result of climate change despite the driest period on record at the time
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Whooosh
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I have read that before Wobert. More economist smeg without a single understanding electrical energy distribution.

‘Key point 1’ says it all.

‘Key point 2’ is precisely my point - Canberrans are dumb enough to pay too much for something they’re not even getting - see key point 1

‘Key point 3’ proves my point perfectly just in you missed it (and clearly you did) - it doesn’t need to be possible in the future if they’re 100% renewable today does it? I mean 400 years ago someone might have looked forward to the future time when they could safely and easily control the lighting in their abode by simply flicking a switch and knowing that there would be instant light - but I don’t need to look forward to that in the future because it’s here now. If canberra is 100% renewable powered (pro tip - it isn’t) then they don’t need to consider it will be possible in the future because it’s there today... Yeah, you’re right, it’s a conspiracy, and people are lying, but it’s not coming from where you think it is!
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Canberra is like one of those ‘trendy’ people that have to have ‘organic’ everything.

They get to the bakery and they’re sold out of ‘organic’ bread so in stead they take the regular bread but insist on paying the ‘organic’ inflated price for the ‘feels’.

Paying for something you’re not getting (regularly no less) and celebrating that doesn’t make you clever, it makes you either exceptionally foolish, or a ‘greenie’ ‘economist’ - and that is likely to mean you’re both anyway.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Canberra is like one of those ‘trendy’ people that have to have ‘organic’ everything.

They get to the bakery and they’re sold out of ‘organic’ bread so in stead they take the regular bread but insist on paying the ‘organic’ inflated price for the ‘feels’.

Paying for something you’re not getting (regularly no less) and celebrating that doesn’t make you clever, it makes you either exceptionally foolish, or a ‘greenie’ ‘economist’ - and that is likely to mean you’re both anyway.
Aaron
It's obvious you don't live here. There might be a very few altruistics that do that, but if you put something on for free in Canberra, there are traffic jams (with shock, horror, too many cars, not PT) and if you charge for it, the locals stay way in droves! Don't judge ordinary Canberrans by the behaviour of the minority ALP government in the local council. They just let their coalition Green MLA's say all this nonsense to keep them happy and stay in power. At our expense.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Well Aaron you clearly don't understand the principle of the offset,which is why I linked to the Canberra article to explain it in more detail than I could.As for the comment about the cost and claim that they aren't offsetting 100% of their emissions, this article begs to differ, and a 4 million dollar saving to ACT consumers in the first quarter of 2019 alone.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/canberras-green-machines-act-reaches-100-renewable-electricity-target-78663/

As for sitting around after dark waiting for Melbournes trams to stop, and the battery to run out of puff, and claiming a gotcha moment when the trams kept running,the underlings in the Premiers office must have had a good chuckle and shake of the head upon receiving your correspondence. No wonder you never got a reply, meanwhile the Premier replied to some people in SA I think in regards to the Overland. ( see Overland thread)

Now remember back in one of the other  climate/energy threads how you absolutely bagged out the Tesla battery in SA,and  told us it was a complete waste of money and resources and that you new more than them about electrons, well it seems they just will not learn, to wit

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/sa-big-battery-set-to-get-even-bigger/11716784

As for your fatuous comment about Canberrans, says more about you than them.

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