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Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

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      CraigieburnLineUser Locomotive Fireman

    Incidentally, I sure hope there's a few more intermediate stations built than are marked on that map.  Quite a few big gaps IMO.
    Carnot

    A rough Google maps estimate says its 26-27km from Sunshine to Broadmeadows by Melbourne Airport. In that space there is a lot of room for more stops. East Keilor, Airport West and Westmeadows could be good candidates based on the current Albion-Jacana freight line. This assumes that you go up Airport drive only on the clockwise run. If you used Airport Drive on both (which is probably less efficient) you could have stops at Gowanbrae or Gladstone Park. These areas would benefit a lot from a station but first the Government needs to stumble across the idea that's been tossed up here that there is a massive void in the west
    Posted: 03 Sep 2019 19:44

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      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    Incidentally, I sure hope there's a few more intermediate stations built than are marked on that map.  Quite a few big gaps IMO.
    Carnot
    I'm Guessing there will be many more stations on this loop as It would massively increase the Capture of Loop and remove more cars off the roads. Pretty self explanatory. It's probably going to be confirmed when the alinement options are chosen and station sites along it are fully identified. At the moment its still just a really cool policy
    I look forward to hearing what will be tunnelled, Trenched and above ground now, Construction assuming it gets too that will be interesting to watch unfold.

    Oh, and I need to do that Solo sometime too:cool:
    Posted: 03 Sep 2019 21:42
      8077 Chief Train Controller

    Location: Crossing the Rubicon
    Proposal outlines three "hubs" Broadmeadows, Clayton and Sunshine where V/Line and Metro service customers can change between regional and metro services.

    Does this suggest early terminating V/Line services at these hubs rather than letting these trains as they do today to access Flinders Street and SCS?
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 13:40
      Revenue Chief Commissioner

    I haven't been involved in this project, but I'm concerned with calls for the number of stations to be increased significantly. Remember, most people who use this loop will have to transfer once, and twice in many cases. For example, if someone wants to go from Eltham to Glenferrie, they'll have to change at Heidelberg and again at Box Hill - and that's fine provided the rail loop doens't have too many stations on it. The project is about increasing the value of the current rail network - and if we have a lot of intermediate stations then it will reduce the value of the project to the current stations. This is about helping people travel between existing stations not about dramatically increasing the number of stations (and providing a much slower connection between lines). In the case of Eltham to Glenferrie, its a two station journey on the new link - which is quite attractive.
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 18:00
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    I am concerned not about the stations but the time it will take to build. MELBOURNE is already in much need of this system and cannot afford to wait.
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 20:14
      Crossover Train Controller

    Location: St. Albans Victoria
    Incidentally, I sure hope there's a few more intermediate stations built than are marked on that map.  Quite a few big gaps IMO.

    A rough Google maps estimate says its 26-27km from Sunshine to Broadmeadows by Melbourne Airport. In that space there is a lot of room for more stops. East Keilor, Airport West and Westmeadows could be good candidates based on the current Albion-Jacana freight line. This assumes that you go up Airport drive only on the clockwise run. If you used Airport Drive on both (which is probably less efficient) you could have stops at Gowanbrae or Gladstone Park. These areas would benefit a lot from a station but first the Government needs to stumble across the idea that's been tossed up here that there is a massive void in the west
    CraigieburnLineUser
    Is the Airport to Sunshine section of the loop planned to be on dedicated tracks or is it proposed that the loop will share tracks with the dedicated airport line from Sunshine ?
    As I understand it the preferred option is the airport line be on it`s own dedicated right of way ALL the way from the CBD to the airport
    .If the section Airport to Sunshine is on shared trackage then that will significantly compromise this
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 20:30
      reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

    Is the Airport to Sunshine section of the loop planned to be on dedicated tracks or is it proposed that the loop will share tracks with the dedicated airport line from Sunshine ? As I understand it the preferred option is the airport line be on it`s own dedicated right of way ALL the way from the CBD to the airport .If the section Airport to Sunshine is on shared trackage then that will significantly compromise this
    Crossover
    I'd certainly hope that it would be on dedicated tracks, even if it means a six track viaduct over the river. Sharing tracks sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, and it would also be an under-utilisation of SRL. SRL should really run at a frequency of a train every 2 minutes, which it would not be able to do realistically if it shared tracks. Otherwise it would be a terrible waste of money.
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 20:48
      CraigieburnLineUser Locomotive Fireman

    Is the Airport to Sunshine section of the loop planned to be on dedicated tracks or is it proposed that the loop will share tracks with the dedicated airport line from Sunshine ? As I understand it the preferred option is the airport line be on it`s own dedicated right of way ALL the way from the CBD to the airport .If the section Airport to Sunshine is on shared trackage then that will significantly compromise this
    I'd certainly hope that it would be on dedicated tracks, even if it means a six track viaduct over the river. Sharing tracks sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, and it would also be an under-utilisation of SRL. SRL should really run at a frequency of a train every 2 minutes, which it would not be able to do realistically if it shared tracks. Otherwise it would be a terrible waste of money.
    reubstar6
    Yeah I really hope they're dedicated tracks, means you can have one stop Airport line as well as SRL stopping all stations giving a better service to more places. Otherwise the path reduction from the expresses would be shocking. They should also have a turnout at every second station or so, reliability in Melbourne is pretty shocking
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 21:22
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    I am concerned not about the stations but the time it will take to build. MELBOURNE is already in much need of this system and cannot afford to wait.
    freightgate
    Funding restraints would likely be the biggest thing holding up progress.

    Changers In future Governments could see progress stall.
    Posted: 04 Sep 2019 21:43
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The entire project will be delivered by yet another government owned corporation who will not doubt have incentives to save money by reducing scope?

    Posted: 05 Sep 2019 09:50
      tayser Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    The entire project will be delivered by yet another government owned corporation who will not doubt have incentives to save money by reducing scope?

    bevans

    Splitting hairs much?  Regardless of the structure of how the project is implemented, public servents and ultimately ministers are still responsible...
    Posted: 05 Sep 2019 10:09
      potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

    Anyway, describing SRLA as a "government owned corporation" is inaccurate. They're an administrative office, just like MTIA; think of them as "mini-departments". Considering the MTIA has just about unlimited cash for the projects the government really wants done (level crossings), it's likely to be the same situation here.
    Posted: 05 Sep 2019 11:28
      RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Dubai UAE
    With a state-of-the-art TBM, 30-35m per day is achievable. Allowing for breakdowns, maintenance and the like, four TBM's could carve up a pair of tunnels in 10 years (not counting station boxes).
    chomper
    I believe the Sydney NWRL had 4?

    The City - SW Metro seems to be doing so many break throughs of late it must be running 6

    For this project they wouldn't stop with anything less than 10, depending on govt funding
    Posted: 05 Sep 2019 11:49
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Is the Airport to Sunshine section of the loop planned to be on dedicated tracks or is it proposed that the loop will share tracks with the dedicated airport line from Sunshine ? As I understand it the preferred option is the airport line be on it`s own dedicated right of way ALL the way from the CBD to the airport .If the section Airport to Sunshine is on shared trackage then that will significantly compromise this
    I'd certainly hope that it would be on dedicated tracks, even if it means a six track viaduct over the river. Sharing tracks sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, and it would also be an under-utilisation of SRL. SRL should really run at a frequency of a train every 2 minutes, which it would not be able to do realistically if it shared tracks. Otherwise it would be a terrible waste of money.
    reubstar6
    Now you are getting into the realms of a Metro and not a commuter service. That will add another $5 Billion for signalling. Not to mention extra rolling stock and stabling facilities. On an already ridiculously expensive project that Melbourne does not need. Most lines operating on the London Underground do not have 30 trains an hour. It is utterly ridiculous for the SRL to have that sort of frequency.

    Michael
    Posted: 05 Sep 2019 21:24

    Last edited by mejhammers1 on 05 Sep 2019 22:44; edited 1 time in total
      potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

    For once I agree with Michael. 30tph is just getting a bit silly, especially as the radial lines won’t be running anywhere near that. 6tph off peak to begin with and increasing to 10-12 in sections and times where patronage demands it.
    Posted: 06 Sep 2019 09:45
      Llib7 Station Staff
    Posted: 21 Sep 2019 12:26
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Some now calling for both projects https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/we-need-metro-2-and-outer-rail-loop-both-projects-should-go-ahead  being the metro 2 and suburban loop and I tend to agree but that is just me.

    The quote I like which is shameful is

    After generations of only incremental developments to Melbourne’s public transport network, finally this city is getting what it needs.
    Somebody

    Never a truer word written.
    Posted: 04 Oct 2019 14:43
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Some now calling for both projects https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/we-need-metro-2-and-outer-rail-loop-both-projects-should-go-ahead  being the metro 2 and suburban loop and I tend to agree but that is just me.

    The quote I like which is shameful is

    After generations of only incremental developments to Melbourne’s public transport network, finally this city is getting what it needs.

    Never a truer word written.
    bevans
    Metro 2 should be built. Suburban Rail Loop with its exceedingly long lead time should not be built as heavy rail. Bus Rapid Transit to start and then convert to light rail.

    Michael
    Posted: 05 Oct 2019 22:57
      speedemon08 Mary

    Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
    Some now calling for both projects https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/we-need-metro-2-and-outer-rail-loop-both-projects-should-go-ahead  being the metro 2 and suburban loop and I tend to agree but that is just me.

    The quote I like which is shameful is

    After generations of only incremental developments to Melbourne’s public transport network, finally this city is getting what it needs.

    Never a truer word written.
    Metro 2 should be built. Suburban Rail Loop with its exceedingly long lead time should not be built as heavy rail. Bus Rapid Transit to start and then convert to light rail.

    Michael
    mejhammers1
    Box Hill to Cheltenham should be heavy rail irregardless.
    Posted: 06 Oct 2019 10:01
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Some now calling for both projects https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/we-need-metro-2-and-outer-rail-loop-both-projects-should-go-ahead  being the metro 2 and suburban loop and I tend to agree but that is just me.

    The quote I like which is shameful is

    After generations of only incremental developments to Melbourne’s public transport network, finally this city is getting what it needs.

    Never a truer word written.
    Metro 2 should be built. Suburban Rail Loop with its exceedingly long lead time should not be built as heavy rail. Bus Rapid Transit to start and then convert to light rail.

    Michael
    Box Hill to Cheltenham should be heavy rail irregardless.
    speedemon08
    Why? I just cannot understand that the Tram network gets little, the Bus Network which needs a complete overhaul, receives even less. The Government cannot even bring itself to purchase anything else but cheap off the shelf buses at $160,000 each Bus Network changes are couple of new bus routes with crap schedules, and yet, the Govt is willing to punt $50 Billion on an orbital rail line that may not get the patronage and has a very long lead time and everyone just says yeah, I am fine with that. They are already running late with tunneling for Metro 1.

    Michael
    Posted: 06 Oct 2019 22:04

    Last edited by mejhammers1 on 06 Oct 2019 22:38; edited 1 time in total
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    The whole thing is a sick joke - the western end should tell you all you need to know.

    The orbital buses failed and were cut back because they were a stupid concept, but now they want to cement this thing in?

    Though the route does look like it was designed by the same people who set our bus routes - nowhere via everywhere.
    Posted: 16 Nov 2019 15:36
      ptvcommuter Train Controller

    The SRL isn’t a bad concept, the western and northern ends do need a rethink. I would rather deliver the Airport Rail via the Suburban Rail Loop, the 15 Billion dollar city to airport is a bigger joke and waste than this project. A couple more stations, rethink on the western and northern ends and Extension to Sandringham and you have a pretty good line.
    Posted: 17 Nov 2019 11:20
      chomper Junior Train Controller

    The whole thing is a sick joke - the western end should tell you all you need to know.

    The orbital buses failed and were cut back because they were a stupid concept, but now they want to cement this thing in?

    Though the route does look like it was designed by the same people who set our bus routes - nowhere via everywhere.
    ZH836301

    You are aware that the old RTA (Vicroads precursor) had done some design work for an orbital (or part thereof) rail line in the 1980's?
    Posted: 17 Nov 2019 22:48
      HardSleeper Junior Train Controller

    Location: Route 48
    The whole thing is a sick joke - the western end should tell you all you need to know.

    The orbital buses failed and were cut back because they were a stupid concept, but now they want to cement this thing in?

    Though the route does look like it was designed by the same people who set our bus routes - nowhere via everywhere.
    ZH836301
    Orbital buses failed because buses are crap and get stuck in horrendous traffic. Traffic which is horrendous because there is no decent orbital public transport.

    Wander down to Box Hill sometime and try and argue it's nowhere.
    Posted: 17 Nov 2019 23:22
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    You are aware that the old RTA (Vicroads precursor) had done some design work for an orbital (or part thereof) rail line in the 1980's?
    chomper
    And that's supposed to validate it?  But no, do you have more details.


    Orbital buses failed because buses are crap and get stuck in horrendous traffic. Traffic which is horrendous because there is no decent orbital public transport.
    HardSleeper

    So you're gullible, or clueless, enough to think that a railway would have any impact at all?

    Most workers in an area live in the same, or adjacent municipality - so unless a station happens to be right beneath both them and their workplace, it's going to be of no use.  But since the budget will be blown for the next decade they won't be able to choose a bus either.  Seems like a great idea.

    Now the problem with the orbital buses wasn't that they were buses - they've been broken up and many of the sections perform quite well.  It's that instead of focusing on high patronage sections, the orbital soundbite was too good to pass up and instead we had every bus making a pointless circuit of the city, with no respect to where people wanted to go.

    Kind of like this proposal - a great soundbite with little practicality.


    Wander down to Box Hill sometime and try and argue it's nowhere.
    HardSleeper

    You write that as though a visit to Box Hill would leave one standing dumbstruck, in awe of its scale.

    Have you ever even left the country, ...the city, ...your suburb?

    Maybe you should wander down to Fawkner - the gravediggers are going to love it when the SRL arrives.
    Posted: 18 Nov 2019 01:45

    Last edited by ZH836301 on 18 Nov 2019 12:35; edited 1 time in total

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