Old cement siding at Albion?

 
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Yo  having some problems, Quotes    not  added. Pity, u  r  missing out on a good read.

Neil
ngarner
internet  not picking up posts dave

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  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Yo  having some problems, Quotes    not  added. Pity, u  r  missing out on a good read.

Neil
ngarner
internet  not picking up posts dave
"david harvey"
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
What's that sonny? Speak up I can't hear you
  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Wow - amazing stories - yes I too didnt know Sunshine was a two man crew !  Very interesting how some trains got incorrectly routed.  I remember Platform 3 was also available to receive trains at Sunshine going in the up direction - imagine putting a freight train going in the UP direction on platform 3!  The problem is that the road on platform 3 was not connected to the UP Independent Goods Road heading to Totty and Melbourne Yard so a reverse movment would have to occur and that would also be blocking Anderson Road!
I am sure that must have happened!  ouch!

Regards
Shelton
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Wow - amazing stories - yes I too didnt know Sunshine was a two man crew !  Very interesting how some trains got incorrectly routed.  I remember Platform 3 was also available to receive trains at Sunshine going in the up direction - imagine putting a freight train going in the UP direction on platform 3!  The problem is that the road on platform 3 was not connected to the UP Independent Goods Road heading to Totty and Melbourne Yard so a reverse movment would have to occur and that would also be blocking Anderson Road!
I am sure that must have happened!  ouch!

Regards
Shelton
"Shazam75"
  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Hi Dave
Unfortunately your latest reply was not picked up.

Regards
Shelton
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Wow - amazing stories - yes I too didnt know Sunshine was a two man crew !  Very interesting how some trains got incorrectly routed.  I remember Platform 3 was also available to receive trains at Sunshine going in the up direction - imagine putting a freight train going in the UP direction on platform 3!  
I am sure that must have happened!  ouch!

Regards
Shelton
Shazam75
I,m back no sure what the issue was . I must clarify that wrongly routing of trains was a rarity. given the fact that most systems were route setting some sort of computer in put as Neil said the driver should have stopped at the signal when it gave the wrong indication . PROTECTING our B SIDING at the end of Number 2 platform at sunshine was post 30?.It had a Illuminated Letter type Route indicator attached to the post to inform the loco crew of the direction that the points were set. If the  Illuminated Letter was an A the points were set for Albion (Bendigo ), illuminated Letter was an N the points were set for the North Line  (Ballarat ), illuminated Letter was an S the points were set for the South Line  (Ballarat ),Going to B siding , I think there was no illuminated Letter just a low speed beneath the home signal when going to B siding ,

Congratulations Shelton over  100 posts on the over 9 years period
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
'Turns out it was actually 1980, this incident, and we were back in Ballarat exactly a week later for the inquiry. One area that the railways could actually move rapidly.'
Certainly YEARS faster than the ATSB.
david harvey
How quite correct you are YM  , all the arm chair experts and another layer of administration  piles on
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
'Turns out it was actually 1980, this incident, and we were back in Ballarat exactly a week later for the inquiry. One area that the railways could actually move rapidly.'
Certainly YEARS faster than the ATSB.
How quite correct you are YM  , all the arm chair experts and another layer of administration  piles on
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Ah, good to see you back with us again, David

Neil
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Wow - amazing stories -but true  yes I too didnt know Sunshine was a two man box crew
and just as well it did have.

!
david harvey


!
One afternoon Tottenham bells out a Adelaide goods and within 10minutes it turns up so we begin to make the road out of the Goods lines and across the suburban lines and my mate cant clear the Number 6 signal which is the departure signal into the North line to Rockbank( Ballarat). BY now the goods 9121 is out on to the suburban lines and on to the down main line so I through back the down home at the end of the No 2 plat form (That was my decision ,9121 was going extremely slow and was a platform length from the home stick) ,Still cant get any signals ,it looks like a total failure of the CTC system . 9121 pulls up at the home signal and I go out and apologise to the drive for throwing the stick back ,and I explain the situation. It was better that he stop there than stop at the next signal which was 600 metres around the corner. So now both suburban lines are blocked .As Shelton had mentioned ,you cant  back oa train out of Number 3 road to Totty ,but I can back one out of Number 2 road to Totty. Just then the signal box door opens and who should walk in , ,,,no none of you good folk will ever guess. .It was the Senior Safe Working Inspector from Flinders Street Mr Ron McCloud . I told him the situation . and the other signalman john he rang the fitters and train control whilst I told the crew of 9121 not to move the train till I return .I hoped in Mr McCloud HG Holden and we speed a round to Tottenham B Box and Mr McCloud ran up the stairs and opened the door and her is the signal assistant lying back in the chair ,feet on the table watching Television, well did he wet him self for he knew Ron McCloud and he knew he was in trouble . All Mr Mcloud said was"You know your not meant to be watching that so put it away we've go work to do".SO he put it away and that a was all that was said about it I think . we went to Tottenham B Box to get  a Signalman's Wrong Line Order  which basically said I the signal man at Tottenham will not let t any train pass down this line until the train returns to the station in the rear . We the left with the order ,gave it to the driver of 9121 and he then could set back on to the goods lines knowing the line behind him was clear . The guard was also in formed . This was all done before radios . The order was then returned to Tottenham B  Box for without it returning he couldn't send any trains down the line.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West

Well its back, Back to the future,Back to  B Siding with a Vengeance  with a "Shelton Special"

Tuesday the 16th of April 1985.

The P 2 pilot from Tottenham to sunshine hauled by loco Y110.
time 0746 hours pilot arrived from Totty yard into B siding
time 0825 hours pilot ex B siding to the Grain sidings Newport Line
time 0859 hours pilot ex Grain sidings Newport Line  to B Sidings
time 0923 hours pilot, B siding departed to Totty

Time 0937 hours pilot Ballast, Totty yard to Deer Park Albion Reid Siding hauled by T345
Time 1127 hours pilot Ballast,   Albion Reid Siding to Totty yard with consist T345-ZL van  10 NN ballast wagons z L time                            Time 1202 hours pilot  Y106 passed from Totty yard to Deer Park                                                                                                                              1305 hours pilot  passed from Deer Park ICI EXplosive Siding to tottenham .                               . .....                                                                  the consist was'nt noted but it had lots of P trucks.

Dave

  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
The only reason this thread is alive is because of you two gentlemen - Dave and Neil - so thank you both!
Very interesting - Low Speed from the Home Signal on Platform 2 to the B Siding (possiblity) - also do you remember the Dawf Signal that was on Platform 1 in the DOWN direction?
I am always intrigued whether this signal being a dawf signal, did it display Red/Green or Red/Yellow or was it three aspects Red/Yellow/Green for any Down movements from the UP Line (Road 1).  99% of the time I remember it being at Red.

Photo by Weston Langford
Regards
Shelton
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
The only reason this thread is alive is because of you two gentlemen - Dave and Neil - so thank you both!
Very interesting - Low Speed from the Home Signal on Platform 2 to the B Siding (possiblity) - also do you remember the Dawf Signal that was on Platform 1 in the DOWN direction?
I am always intrigued whether this signal being a dawf signal, did it display Red/Green or Red/Yellow or was it three aspects Red/Yellow/Green for any Down movements from the UP Line (Road 1).  99% of the time I remember it being at Red.

Photo by Weston Langford
Regards
Shelton
Shazam75
David could probably answer this one better than i can but it was rare to get a green light from a dwarf signal. The vast majority of time they displayed yellow when at proceed. I feel that someone thought that green on a dwarf might give an engineman the wrong idea and he (she) might go a bit too hard, although with a maximum speed of 15km permitted on getting a proceed indication on a dwarf you'd be hard pressed to get into too much trouble, at least speed wise; can't say the same for not hitting anything.
Semaphore dwarfs were more obvious. You could see whether they had a green or not and, again, the majority only had yellow or purple. Yes, I didn't mis-type that; purple was used on semaphore dwarfs, probably to help distinguish them from other signals. Even those that did have a green aspect rarely displayed it, even when they could have. I think I might have seen a green on a dwarf maybe once in 5 years and, I must say, that was a surprise to see.  
Not remembering my roads and signals class (been a little too long for that) I would suggest that dwarf was set to allow you access to any track, with the exception of the up Bendigo main. As there was only one home signal protecting all of the points between it and the platform, regs would have banned 'wrong line' moves using that signal, except under abnormal circumstances. The North CTC line to Ballarat was different being dual direction.

Neil
  billjohnston Station Master

Regarding misrouting, back in the late 70's I think a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 (a quite regular event) but the signalman failed to realise the points were left for "A" siding. The jet driver realised too late and it ran off the end of "A" siding into the dirt. The "S" class in the lead had the overhead mast, at the end of the siding, bent around its nose but surprisingly the wire did not break. That was also the last time I saw a steam crane in use, used to lift the leading "S" so track could be laid under it and allow it to be dragged back on track.

Bill Johnston
  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Thanks for the clarification Neil.
Its amazing with interlocking points and signals we can still have incidents like those mentioned by Bill and others.
I took some video of Sunshine before the major works were implemented.  The signals which were SearchLights were replaced by this time.




https://youtu.be/bIbwX27Sn5Q

Regards
Shelton
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Regarding misrouting, back in the late 70's I think a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 (a quite regular event) but the signalman failed to realise the points were left for "A" siding. The jet driver realised too late and it ran off the end of "A" siding into the dirt.
Bill Johnston
billjohnston
I wasn't there when this happened  butto ensure that it didnt happen again , the lock bar that secures the points in to A siding was changed from (Out One Way ) to ( Out Both Ways) and the home signal (post 38)protecting the points to A siding wouldn't go to proceed if the points were set for A siding ,you had to press a Low speed button on the signal . . and a Route indicator was placed on the signal mast Post 38 ...and this incident hasn't happened again.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Regarding misrouting, back in the late 70's I think a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 (a quite regular event) but the signalman failed to realise the points were left for "A" siding. The jet driver realised too late and it ran off the end of "A" siding into the dirt. The "S" class in the lead had the overhead mast, at the end of the siding, bent around its nose but surprisingly the wire did not break. That was also the last time I saw a steam crane in use, used to lift the leading "S" so track could be laid under it and allow it to be dragged back on track.

Bill Johnston
billjohnston
It happened before my time but I've got a memory of seeing a photo of an S class nosed into an overhead stanchion. The caption didn't go into detail, like Bill has, but having read his post it all ties together.

Neil
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Dwarf 27 at Sunshine could only display red/yellow - at least that's what a signalling arrangement diagram from the eighties shows.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West
Regarding re-routing, of trains ,I think a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 (a quite regular event)

Bill Johnston
ngarner
Some signalmen were not to adventurous when it came to train running,me on the other hand loved the job so I would make the most of the train running ,for example a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 from the Goods lines so an up Bendigo could still arrive at the up platform because the points were set for the up goods arrive , no chance of collision.

A down Ballarat goods from the goods lines via No 1 platform THEN getting dwarf 27 on to the North line to Ballarat at the same time a down St Al-bains can be arriving in to No 2 platform. There were a few more moves one could make ,ideally setting points to make "parallel moves" and using all the roads, provided this didn't upset the station staff with platform changes . Dave
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The only reason this thread is alive is because of you two gentlemen - Dave and Neil - so thank you both!
Very interesting - Low Speed from the Home Signal on Platform 2 to the B Siding (possiblity) - also do you remember the Dawf Signal that was on Platform 1 in the DOWN direction?
I am always intrigued whether this signal being a dawf signal, did it display Red/Green or Red/Yellow or was it three aspects Red/Yellow/Green for any Down movements from the UP Line (Road 1).  99% of the time I remember it being at Red.

Photo by Weston Langford
Regards
Shelton
Shazam75

Despite possibly sounding politically incorrect, the correct term for obvious reasons is 'Dwarf signal'.

Mike.
  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Regarding re-routing, of trains ,I think a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 (a quite regular event)

Bill Johnston
Some signalmen were not to adventurous when it came to train running,me on the other hand loved the job so I would make the most of the train running ,for example a down Adelaide jet was routed through platform 3 from the Goods lines so an up Bendigo could still arrive at the up platform because the points were set for the up goods arrive , no chance of collision.

A down Ballarat goods from the goods lines via No 1 platform THEN getting dwarf 27 on to the North line to Ballarat at the same time a down St Al-bains can be arriving in to No 2 platform. There were a few more moves one could make ,ideally setting points to make "parallel moves" and using all the roads, provided this didn't upset the station staff with platform changes . Dave
david harvey
Now thats what I call efficiency!  I remember one time a T Class came from the North Line heading to Totty and the load was a single VLX wagon!  I only remember this because I took a photo of it.  I am not sure what happened, the wagon in question must have had a fault with it.  That's the smallest goods train I have seen in my life.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Upper Kumbuctor West

I am always intrigued whether this signal being a dwarf signal, did it display Red/Green or Red/Yellow or was it three aspects Red/Yellow/Green for any Down movements from the UP Line (Road 1).                                                  99% of the time I remember it being at Red.

Photo by Weston Langford
Regards
Shelton
Despite possibly sounding politically incorrect, the correct term for obvious reasons is 'Dwarf signal'.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Here we go ,just opened the Can of Worms Department ,                                                                                       when talking about a Dwarf signal ,sorry or should I say a vertically challenged signal
which 99% of the times shows  Red,sorry or should  say it  hasn't  communist tendency's        but  can show yellow sorry I meant its not a coward either , but it could show green so it might be an environmentalist so we had better clean our act up.
  Shazam75 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
LOL - vertically challenged!
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
So if post 27 is vertically challenged, how do you describe one that sits between running lines and measures 30cm at best? Just curious.

Neil

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