Ad Met goings on -

 
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I caught the bus down to the Darlington area the other day to inspect the Flinders link goings on. When i got there I found that the bridge pylons have been completed, and the station area foundation has been laid. Furthermore, the track beyond clovelly park station has been pulled up.

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  PaulSurguy Station Master

I caught the bus down to the Darlington area the other day to inspect the Flinders link goings on. When i got there I found that the bridge pylons have been completed, and the station area foundation has been laid. Furthermore, the track beyond clovelly park station has been pulled up.
Gayspie
7/12/2019 they are putting the bridge spans in a cross south road today if you go to SA Planning and Infrastructure on facebook you can see the progress
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The configuration of (New) Tonsley Station (to replace both Old Tonsley and Clovelly Park) has been confirmed - south of Alawoona Ave, platform on Tonsley side (eastern side) of the line, active pedestrian crossings at both ends of the platform.



This render shows the Clovelly Park side (western side) of the line pretty well as is, but shows a number of buildings on the Tonsley side where the park and ride is currently located. If interest in Tonsley ever rises enough to make the flat park and ride a waste of more valuable real estate, I would guess that this park and ride would quickly be replaced by a multi-storey one either there or at Laffer Triangle where it can serve multiple public transport options (Flinders Line + buses) and also Flinders Medical Centre. The bridge for the railway and pathway will have a lift for Laffer Triangle access, just near the corner of Main South Road and the extended Flinders Drive.

Apparently it will cost $16M ($8M state, $8M federal) for a single platform station with only at-grade access. That's way too much to be explained by mere incompetence, it has to be either a sweetheart deal for a party donor or it is intended for much of the funding to be diverted elsewhere.

A few other bits and pieces from around the metro area:
  • The pedestrian level crossing at West St is still not open!
  • There is a drill rig doing samples around the Brighton Road level crossing area.
  • The government is quietly doing a public consultation on adding a fourth lane to Flagstaff Hill Road. It's unclear what their intentions are with this, they are doing it so quietly and with so little information that I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being a government box ticking exercise (they campaigned heavily on 'fix Flagstaff' as part of winning the Aberfoyle Park and Happy Valley area from Labor at the last election) that can then be abandoned for lack of public interest in the project (and the allocated funding diverted elsewhere).
  • The government has just banned Uber from serving the Adelaide Hills beyond Bridgewater. Good news for the taxi industry!
  • The government has finally admitted that the Northern Connector will not be completed in Late 2019. March 2020 is the current prediction.
  • The Southern Expressway exit to Ayliffes Road is scheduled to open this weekend, meaning that the bridge to Ayliffes Road will have one lane of traffic from Main South Road and one lane from the Southern Expressway.
  • Trams are running a half service on the North Terrace (Botanic Gardens to Entertainment Centre) route today. The Bombardier Flexity Lemon trams can't take the heat.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting about the trams only running at half-capacity - are there units withdrawn presently from the heat? They were originally built for Spain so you'd have to assume that they were constructed with the heat in mind - obviously not.
  ausbulldog Station Master

Location: Mt Barker SA
  • The pedestrian level crossing at West St is still not open!

This was opened to the public yesterday morning, on the 18th December
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Interesting about the trams only running at half-capacity - are there units withdrawn presently from the heat? They were originally built for Spain so you'd have to assume that they were constructed with the heat in mind - obviously not.
don_dunstan
It is the Bombardier Flexity Classic trams which are suffering, the ones ordered off the peg for Adelaide by Rann and Conlon without a tender.

The Alstom Citadis trams obtained from Madrid, which regretfully form the minority of the fleet, are doing just fine.

It's now been announced that some afternoon peak services will be cancelled even on the Glenelg line.

  • The pedestrian level crossing at West St is still not open!

This was opened to the public yesterday morning, on the 18th December
ausbulldog
I stand corrected! It wasn't open when I saw it on Tuesday though.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

The Flexity type of trams were a waste of money and just bought so that a few more could be bought cheaply. They had no sooner entered service when it was found out that the air conditioning in them would not cope with the high temperatures encountered here and I assume they still cannot. The water even leaked inside of them showering passengers with water at one stage as well. They are rough riding, noisy and give you claustrophobia almost inside they were a gross waste of money. The newer ex Madrid trams are miles better though.

The Felxity's are dark inside, they are internally painted a dark grey colour and are cramped even if sitting or standing. When packed full the ventilation system cannot cope even if a few of the openable windows on them are open. They do have a few small opening windows in some places in the public area in them. They have very narrow aisles as well.

The Citadis trams Ex Madrid though are a whitish colour inside and have plenty of light, they are not as cramped even if full and have a lot more standing room in them as well.  The ventilation system works well.The aisles in these at least are a little bit wider not by much but enough to make it easier to get along.

What Adelaide needs to do is get rid of the Flexity trams and get more of the Citadis type.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
I'm also never biased against older PT vehicles when there's a debate against them, but I do agree with the above post. It would be easier with vehicle maintenance, as well as providing better comfort and possibly reliability.

The resale value of the Flexities would be fairly reasonable considering they are not even 15 years old, and there are only 15 of them to dispose of/replace, compared to the original 22 of 30 H class that remained in service until their withdrawal.

Admittedly, I find the Citadis ones to be more comfortable, but neither are pleasant to catch now with the near nonstop announcements, which is not the focus of this topic admittedly.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I'm also never biased against older PT vehicles when there's a debate against them, but I do agree with the above post. It would be easier with vehicle maintenance, as well as providing better comfort and possibly reliability.
ARG706
Age isn't an excuse for the Flexity trams.

The first batch were built only a couple of years before the Citadis (plural Citadii?) were built for Metro Ligero, and the later batches are actually newer than the Citadis fleet. They shouldn't feel like they are a generation behind the Citadis.

The resale value of the Flexities would be fairly reasonable considering they are not even 15 years old, and there are only 15 of them to dispose of/replace, compared to the original 22 of 30 H class that remained in service until their withdrawal.
ARG706
Their resale value will be negatively impacted by their quality.

Best course of action would be to keep running them, and then replace them when the need for life extension work starts getting near.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The Flexity type of trams were a waste of money and just bought so that a few more could be bought cheaply. They had no sooner entered service when it was found out that the air conditioning in them would not cope with the high temperatures encountered here and I assume they still cannot. The water even leaked inside of them showering passengers with water at one stage as well. They are rough riding, noisy and give you claustrophobia almost inside they were a gross waste of money. The newer ex Madrid trams are miles better though.
DJPeters
Having recently been there I can report Frankfurt's Flexities are quite comfortable and often are operated at a higher speed around some quite tight curves.     Ours are the same trams, an extension of their order.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

The first batch of Flexis all had custom designed local air conditioning installed at about $1.5m a tram!
I guess they just recycled the new factory units. Shame when they were built specifically for us and should have been under warranty.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The first batch of Flexis all had custom designed local air conditioning installed at about $1.5m a tram!
I guess they just recycled the new factory units. Shame when they were built specifically for us and should have been under warranty.
Halo
The Flexity Classic fleet was built for us, but they weren't specified for us. They were a follow on order for a local tram system in Frankfurt which has pretty well nothing in common with the use in Adelaide.

The air conditioning units installed here are better than the original ones, but still not fully fit for purpose as the trams are so small that there simply isn't the physical space to install air conditioning units with a significantly higher capacity.

I disagree about the 'warranty' side of things - the main problem is the government's choice to select them and then accept them for service without any test running during the summer.

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Speaking of not enough space - no extra services and no lengthened trains following the cricket last night was a disgraceful lack of effort from Adelaide Metro management. It's a bi-annual tradition now, they forget everything at the end of each AFL/BBL season and have to reinvent the wheel a couple of months later.

The 10:30pm Seaford train was lucky not to have been cancelled at Adelaide Showgrounds when an agitated father of some kids who were panicking (mostly due to him losing control, if he had distracted and entertained them they would have been fine) tried to go for the emergency brake but was unable to get through the crowd. Had he been successful, that would have been the end of the night for the Seaford service as there is no way that Adelaide Metro would have been able to control the situation.

Should the second A-City order perhaps have longitudinal seating in the sections between the doors to improve their ability to eat up crowds?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud

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Speaking of not enough space - no extra services and no lengthened trains following the cricket last night was a disgraceful lack of effort from Adelaide Metro management. It's a bi-annual tradition now, they forget everything at the end of each AFL/BBL season and have to reinvent the wheel a couple of months later.

The 10:30pm Seaford train was lucky not to have been cancelled at Adelaide Showgrounds when an agitated father of some kids who were panicking (mostly due to him losing control, if he had distracted and entertained them they would have been fine) tried to go for the emergency brake but was unable to get through the crowd. Had he been successful, that would have been the end of the night for the Seaford service as there is no way that Adelaide Metro would have been able to control the situation.

Should the second A-City order perhaps have longitudinal seating in the sections between the doors to improve their ability to eat up crowds?
justapassenger
Not surprised that AdMet didn't bother putting extra trains on, they were probably blissfully unaware (or totally uncaring) that there was an event on in the city. What did the nuff-nuff hope to achieve by stopping the train? Make his problem into everyone else's problem? If he had done it he should have been charged with interfering with a train.

I was on a Werribee train in Melbourne years ago and some stupid irresponsible woman was letting her kid run rampant in the carriage annoying the other passengers. At one point the brat decided it was fun to press the emergency intercom button repeatedly and within seconds the driver came over the PA and boomed "The woman in carriage four, please supervise your child properly or I'll have to ask you to leave the train!". Of course being the wonderful mother that she was all she did was scream at her kid to sit the f*** down and stop touching things. Charming.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Not surprised that AdMet didn't bother putting extra trains on, they were probably blissfully unaware (or totally uncaring) that there was an event on in the city.
don_dunstan
At least someone at DPTI was aware there was an event on, they posted promotions for it on their Facebook page. Further to that, BBL matches are among the events which have travel for ticket holders paid for by a levy included in the ticket price so there’s no excuse for them not to know.

The question is more of whether it filtered through to whoever it is who decides whether they will provide a useful service or just play with trains.

In the light of the lack of service, SACA should donate the levy for last night’s match to the CFS Foundation and dare the government to come after them for it.

What did the nuff-nuff hope to achieve by stopping the train? Make his problem into everyone else's problem? If he had done it he should have been charged with interfering with a train.
don_dunstan
Maybe he wanted to hold it for long enough for his family to alight and wait for the next train or call a taxi?

I don’t think a prosecution would stick. His kids were surrounded by adults standing and it would have been reasonable to believe they were in such distress that getting them off the train was a good idea.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
At least someone at DPTI was aware there was an event on, they posted promotions for it on their Facebook page. Further to that, BBL matches are among the events which have travel for ticket holders paid for by a levy included in the ticket price so there’s no excuse for them not to know.

The question is more of whether it filtered through to whoever it is who decides whether they will provide a useful service or just play with trains.

In the light of the lack of service, SACA should donate the levy for last night’s match to the CFS Foundation and dare the government to come after them for it.
justapassenger
Sounds like they got nothing for their money.
Maybe he wanted to hold it for long enough for his family to alight and wait for the next train or call a taxi? I don’t think a prosecution would stick. His kids were surrounded by adults standing and it would have been reasonable to believe they were in such distress that getting them off the train was a good idea.
justapassenger
Oh dear, Adelaide people do NOT do crowded public transport well at all do they.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Maybe he wanted to hold it for long enough for his family to alight and wait for the next train or call a taxi? I don’t think a prosecution would stick. His kids were surrounded by adults standing and it would have been reasonable to believe they were in such distress that getting them off the train was a good idea.
Oh dear, Adelaide people do NOT do crowded public transport well at all do they.
don_dunstan
No.

In the very same car, there was space in the centre of the car because people wouldn't move down, and others who decided to stand at the side of the doorway instead of hopping out and back on again.

Longitudinal seating would help with this as it would allow for better circulation. 2+2 lateral seating is more suitable for a regional setup, not for suburban service.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Maybe he wanted to hold it for long enough for his family to alight and wait for the next train or call a taxi? I don’t think a prosecution would stick. His kids were surrounded by adults standing and it would have been reasonable to believe they were in such distress that getting them off the train was a good idea.
Oh dear, Adelaide people do NOT do crowded public transport well at all do they.
No.

In the very same car, there was space in the centre of the car because people wouldn't move down, and others who decided to stand at the side of the doorway instead of hopping out and back on again.

Longitudinal seating would help with this as it would allow for better circulation. 2+2 lateral seating is more suitable for a regional setup, not for suburban service.
justapassenger
But then some one would complain that they had to stand for 20 minutes all the way from Hove or somewhere. Go overseas and see what a suburban train really is like and you would never complain ever again about crowded trains in Adelaide. Can you imagine this here in Adelaide!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Maybe he wanted to hold it for long enough for his family to alight and wait for the next train or call a taxi? I don’t think a prosecution would stick. His kids were surrounded by adults standing and it would have been reasonable to believe they were in such distress that getting them off the train was a good idea.
Oh dear, Adelaide people do NOT do crowded public transport well at all do they.
No.

In the very same car, there was space in the centre of the car because people wouldn't move down, and others who decided to stand at the side of the doorway instead of hopping out and back on again.

Longitudinal seating would help with this as it would allow for better circulation. 2+2 lateral seating is more suitable for a regional setup, not for suburban service.
justapassenger
No, I don't think we need longitudinal seating here like on the London Tube, we simply don't get crowded enough here for that to happen (not frequently anyway). The aisles are more than adequate to move to another part of the train if you don't like it unless its hopelessly jam packed. And the part that I don't understand is: Why squeeze yourself onto a train that's already so crowded as to be very uncomfortable? You put yourself there, take some responsibility.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
The Flexity type of trams were a waste of money and just bought so that a few more could be bought cheaply. They had no sooner entered service when it was found out that the air conditioning in them would not cope with the high temperatures encountered here and I assume they still cannot. The water even leaked inside of them showering passengers with water at one stage as well. They are rough riding, noisy and give you claustrophobia almost inside they were a gross waste of money. The newer ex Madrid trams are miles better though.

The Felxity's are dark inside, they are internally painted a dark grey colour and are cramped even if sitting or standing. When packed full the ventilation system cannot cope even if a few of the openable windows on them are open. They do have a few small opening windows in some places in the public area in them. They have very narrow aisles as well.

The Citadis trams Ex Madrid though are a whitish colour inside and have plenty of light, they are not as cramped even if full and have a lot more standing room in them as well.  The ventilation system works well.The aisles in these at least are a little bit wider not by much but enough to make it easier to get along.

What Adelaide needs to do is get rid of the Flexity trams and get more of the Citadis type.
DJPeters
The Flexity trams were bought as the cheapest option at a time when nothing else was available. The Citadis was not available to buy at that price and was only bought later at a "fire sale" price from a cancelled order. Having said that, the size of the trams we got is pitiful. Looking at the pax ratings and comparing them with the H class there is obviously a big shortfall in seating. Add to that the possibility of double heading the H class and this not being an option with the Flexity for standard running, the only value the new trams have over the old is low floor designation with disabled access.
At the time of the introduction of the Flexity, Bombardier had a different version of the Flexity available that had better capacity, namely the Flexity XXL and would have been a better fit all round for Adelaide.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The Flexity trams … only value the new trams have over the old is low floor designation with disabled access.
nm39
Assuming that there is even space available for a passenger using a wheelchair or walking frame to get on.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Meanwhile i have noticed that, ever since the new Bowden station opened out west, unfortunately hardly anyone uses the expansive transit facility.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

There were 8 people waiting for a train to the city when I went past in the late morning a couple of weeks ago, plus a couple of people leaving the station from an outbound train that had just departed.

Not bad for the middle of a day in the holiday period, considering that the majority of the station's catchment is still a building site.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
There were 8 people waiting for a train to the city when I went past in the late morning a couple of weeks ago, plus a couple of people leaving the station from an outbound train that had just departed.

Not bad for the middle of a day in the holiday period, considering that the majority of the station's catchment is still a building site.
justapassenger
That particular part of Adelaide has a plethora of public transport options - not the least of which is the 'free' tram only moments away at the Entertainment Centre. So long as the tram remains free then that will probably be the preferred option of the new residents moving into the medium density Clipsal site.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

There were 8 people waiting for a train to the city when I went past in the late morning a couple of weeks ago, plus a couple of people leaving the station from an outbound train that had just departed.

Not bad for the middle of a day in the holiday period, considering that the majority of the station's catchment is still a building site.
That particular part of Adelaide has a plethora of public transport options - not the least of which is the 'free' tram only moments away at the Entertainment Centre. So long as the tram remains free then that will probably be the preferred option of the new residents moving into the medium density Clipsal site.
don_dunstan
I must admit I was surprised to see that many there in the middle of the day. Maybe they were a group of some kind?

The main use for the station is probably for inbound workers for  white collar jobs along that part of Port Road, not as the originating station for a city commute.

I wonder whether replacing Bowden with a Brompton station between Chief St and West St might have been better than the new Bowden station. It would have been closer to more jobs, closer to the residential areas already completed and had less overlap with the tram.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
South Road Superway is currently closed from Regency Road northwards for work to complete the connection of the new Northern Expressway through to the Waterloo Corner interchange, Port Wakefield Road and the rest of the expressway through to Gawler; its expected to open again next week when the work to connect the last of the bridges to the end of the Superway is over.

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