3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
TheFish
I am not sure but it would be expected that once greater sydney goes into the higher levels of water restrictions (eg 7+) steam locomotive operations would probably be stopped as they are not a high priority to most people's lives

Sponsored advertisement

  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
I am not sure but it would be expected that once greater sydney goes into the higher levels of water restrictions (eg 7+) steam locomotive operations would probably be stopped as they are not a high priority to most people's lives
DCook
The amount of water used by a steam engine would have negligible affect on the over all water supply. This is just a question that does not deserve an answer.
  a6et Minister for Railways

There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
I am not sure but it would be expected that once greater sydney goes into the higher levels of water restrictions (eg 7+) steam locomotive operations would probably be stopped as they are not a high priority to most people's lives
The amount of water used by a steam engine would have negligible affect on the over all water supply. This is just a question that does not deserve an answer.
nswtrains
Not sure that it would be a big issue around Thirlmere and other such locations as they would have large rain water tanks on site to capture as much as they can, if they don't then it would be a very good idea for them to do so.  The drought is going to break one day just as every one of them has in the past, I have lived through 4 previous ones and the current one is the worst so far as it has affected a greater area of not just NSW but the whole of Australia.

Thirlmere has delivered water to loop line locations in the past and in this current fire season to assist in the fire fighting efforts.
  Spinner5711 Train Controller

Thirlmere does have very large rainwater tanks, they collect from the full roof area of the main roof and the roundhouse roof.

One reason that THNSW trains run with water gins, is so that the train can carry as much water as possible so that it doesn't have to take water in areas with low water supplies.  The trade off is one carriage of passengers less or an assistant D/E, these are I think an acceptable price for social responsibility.

Of course, the reduction in watering facilities since the high point circa 1954 plays its part too.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
I am not sure but it would be expected that once greater sydney goes into the higher levels of water restrictions (eg 7+) steam locomotive operations would probably be stopped as they are not a high priority to most people's lives
The amount of water used by a steam engine would have negligible affect on the over all water supply. This is just a question that does not deserve an answer.
nswtrains
Agree. This is just asking for trouble.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

An intelligent tourist aware town would welcome the steam train, even if it meant losing 0.0001% of their town water supplies (say 20,000 litres once only per trip). Which is probably far less than the average tourist oriented caravan park or motel uses daily, or the amount the train passengers waste.

By the way, is it 3801 days since 3801 has run yet?
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
The drought of 64-66, was the cause of a full depot closing owing to the water supply failing, initially steam was replaced by 48cl for bank engine working, but the NSWGR closed the depot and all staff were transferred to anywhere they wanted to go.

Other areas had severe restrictions as water supplies failed and train consists had more water gins than normal loading.

In this day & age of diesels and electrics, steam takes a very background position in more ways than one.
a6et
I meant more in terms of the preservation era with modern style water restrictions in the Sydney catchment. I don't recall steam being banned during the Millenium drought for example...
  a6et Minister for Railways

There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
The drought of 64-66, was the cause of a full depot closing owing to the water supply failing, initially steam was replaced by 48cl for bank engine working, but the NSWGR closed the depot and all staff were transferred to anywhere they wanted to go.

Other areas had severe restrictions as water supplies failed and train consists had more water gins than normal loading.

In this day & age of diesels and electrics, steam takes a very background position in more ways than one.
I meant more in terms of the preservation era with modern style water restrictions in the Sydney catchment. I don't recall steam being banned during the Millenium drought for example...
TheFish
Which years were the Millenium drought in and for how long?

Steam has been in restricted time frames during summer months for some time now from my understanding, certainly there would be restrictions placed on steam working during intense fire conditions and likely in areas where there are bans on lighting of fires, which usually happen when conditions are very dry and the emission of any hot cinders could be the cause of starting a trackside fire.

The other area of concern would likely be when dam levels have fallen below set stages and water restrictions are in place for residents.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I apologize for bringing this subject up, I had noticed in some other countries where they had massive droughts the operation of steam trains was prohibited and was under the impression that it could happen in NSW
  ssaunders Train Controller

An intelligent tourist aware town would welcome the steam train, even if it meant losing 0.0001% of their town water supplies (say 20,000 litres once only per trip). Which is probably far less than the average tourist oriented caravan park or motel uses daily, or the amount the train passengers waste.

By the way, is it 3801 days since 3801 has run yet?
hbedriver

I disagree, look at Taree, they are on level 4 restrictions, the highest before no town water. That works out at 40 litres per person per day.

I seriously doubt they would welcome a a tourist train wanting 10s of thousands of litres when they are asking their own people and tourists to take a hit.

Under level 4, Mobile water tankers can only be filled for fire fighting purposes.

Many rural towns in this position.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Hbedriver wrote; an intelligent tourist aware town would welcome the steam train, even if it meant losing 0.0001% of their town water supplies (say 20,000 litres once only per trip). Which is probably far less than the average tourist oriented caravan park or motel uses daily, or the amount the train passengers waste.  By the way, is it 3801 days since 3801 has run yet?

Ssaunders wrote; I disagree, look at Taree, they are on level 4 restrictions, the highest before no town water. That works out at 40 litres per person per day.  I seriously doubt they would welcome a a tourist train wanting 10s of thousands of litres when they are asking their own people and tourists to take a hit.

Under level 4, Mobile water tankers can only be filled for fire fighting purposes. Many rural towns in this position.
ssaunders
Tamworth is another major NSW area on severe water restrictions so would not welcome any steam engine  using their town or region's water resources     https://yourvoice.tamworth.nsw.gov.au/town-water-supplies/water-restrictions
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
The drought of 64-66, was the cause of a full depot closing owing to the water supply failing, initially steam was replaced by 48cl for bank engine working, but the NSWGR closed the depot and all staff were transferred to anywhere they wanted to go.

Other areas had severe restrictions as water supplies failed and train consists had more water gins than normal loading.

In this day & age of diesels and electrics, steam takes a very background position in more ways than one.
I meant more in terms of the preservation era with modern style water restrictions in the Sydney catchment. I don't recall steam being banned during the Millenium drought for example...
Which years were the Millenium drought in and for how long?

Steam has been in restricted time frames during summer months for some time now from my understanding, certainly there would be restrictions placed on steam working during intense fire conditions and likely in areas where there are bans on lighting of fires, which usually happen when conditions are very dry and the emission of any hot cinders could be the cause of starting a trackside fire.

The other area of concern would likely be when dam levels have fallen below set stages and water restrictions are in place for residents.
a6et

The Millenium drought was an on and off dry period between the mid to late 1990's and 2010.

I know steam is restricted in the summer due to fire risk for many years. I am talking about water. Your point about dam levels and water restrictions is what I was already talking about. So I'll put out there again...

Has there ever been in the preservation era a time when modern legislated water restrictions have caused steam operations to be suspended?

No one seems able to answer this question thus far so I'm ready to presume it hasn't happened before.

I wonder if in future it would be a 'good look' for steam operators to source recycled water where possible...
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The main reason that I brought it up was because of the extent of the drought, the largest ever in NSW
  a6et Minister for Railways

There is also the potential threat of steam locomotives being temporarily banned from operation due to the increasing water restrictions
Has that happened before?  Is it written into water restriction rules?
The drought of 64-66, was the cause of a full depot closing owing to the water supply failing, initially steam was replaced by 48cl for bank engine working, but the NSWGR closed the depot and all staff were transferred to anywhere they wanted to go.

Other areas had severe restrictions as water supplies failed and train consists had more water gins than normal loading.

In this day & age of diesels and electrics, steam takes a very background position in more ways than one.
I meant more in terms of the preservation era with modern style water restrictions in the Sydney catchment. I don't recall steam being banned during the Millenium drought for example...
Which years were the Millenium drought in and for how long?

Steam has been in restricted time frames during summer months for some time now from my understanding, certainly there would be restrictions placed on steam working during intense fire conditions and likely in areas where there are bans on lighting of fires, which usually happen when conditions are very dry and the emission of any hot cinders could be the cause of starting a trackside fire.

The other area of concern would likely be when dam levels have fallen below set stages and water restrictions are in place for residents.

The Millenium drought was an on and off dry period between the mid to late 1990's and 2010.

I know steam is restricted in the summer due to fire risk for many years. I am talking about water. Your point about dam levels and water restrictions is what I was already talking about. So I'll put out there again...

Has there ever been in the preservation era a time when modern legislated water restrictions have caused steam operations to be suspended?

No one seems able to answer this question thus far so I'm ready to presume it hasn't happened before.

I wonder if in future it would be a 'good look' for steam operators to source recycled water where possible...
TheFish
Fish, I don't disagree in any shape or form re the recycled water item, in fact I am of the view after reading how in some countries they treat the water used in sewerage that is perfectly ok to drink, there was a test plant put in place in Western Sydney some years back and people were given "treated effluent water" to sample and drink and none found any issues with it, but when told what it was treated from many were upset but most were not.

We live in a country where water shortages have been issues owing to droughts, how many extensions have there been to water storages in Australia in the past years, lets say the period of the Millennium drought which should have woken up the countries leaders to the needs for water especially given the huge increase in the population, through many sources including migration.

If Dubai can survive on desalinated sea water for the whole country then this country should be looking at doing the same, there was a plan some years back for 3 such plants to be situated on the NSW coastline in order to keep storage dams and rivers on the western side of the range to provide for drought proofing those regions.

I was in Taree from 1993- end 1999, while there was some dryness there and around the coastal areas there was no drought as such there, I moved back to Sydney at the end of 99, and lived in the Western Suburbs before where we again did not experience any issues.  In saying that I was at Werris Creek in the 80's when the drought there hit in 82 and lasted some few years before the seasons returned to normal.

I doubt there would be any legislation that would restrict steam at specific times of the year, that is by government decree, although there is a general non steam period over the summer months and I remember reading in one of the magazines the heritage operators use the summer months to perform any needed heavier maintenance work for the following steam operating season.
  ssaunders Train Controller

Steaming today.....
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Steaming today.....
ssaunders
Seriously, I heard that the tests were postponed until february. Where did you get this information from?
Did things suddenly change?
  SavyIsJoshoArts Station Staff

Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Steaming today.....
Seriously, I heard that the tests were postponed until february. Where did you get this information from?
Did things suddenly change?
DCook
It's legit. Transport Heritage NSW on Facebook has posted a video just not long ago showing 3801 moving under it's own steam
https://www.facebook.com/TransportHeritageNSW/videos/1121309078217743/

More posts from them are to come later today.

Best regards,
Josh
  a6et Minister for Railways

Steaming today.....
Seriously, I heard that the tests were postponed until february. Where did you get this information from?
Did things suddenly change?
It's legit. Transport Heritage NSW on Facebook has posted a video just not long ago showing 3801 moving under it's own steam
https://www.facebook.com/TransportHeritageNSW/videos/1121309078217743/

More posts from them are to come later today.

Best regards,
Josh
SavyIsJoshoArts
I would suggest that its fine to do that initial steam test within the confines of the area it was put together in, and it did not travel out on to the main lines.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Great to see it alive and breathing again.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Just proves that:

'Everything comes to he who waits'.

Well done to so many who have survived disappointment after disappointment for so long.


  • When is it coming to Melbourne?
  • When will it be painted black?


Just stirring. SmileSmile
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I'd say that I'd prefer to see 3830 instead but I'd better not say it - I might get lynched!Laughing
  a6et Minister for Railways

I'd say that I'd prefer to see 3830 instead but I'd better not say it - I might get lynched!Laughing
Valvegear
I would like to see 30 as well, it was a better loco than 01 was/is
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

All concerned would be pleased, even relieved that this stage has been reached. Hopefully we will see (and hear) it later this year.

Two questions remain; (1) will it run funnel first or tender first to Mildura? (2) is there still time for R766 to beat it back into service?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
(1) will it run funnel first or tender first to Mildura?
hbedriver
It will only run tender first if the need arises as it cannot apply sand well, there is a lack of visibility and major speed restrictions apply if it were to run tender first

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: