XPT Train accident Wallan

 

Pinned post created by dthead

Posted 3 months ago

  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
This might be an inappropriate question, and I apologise if so, but why has the pilot not been named yet?  Is there a problem with the process of notification etc?
There are most likely two reasons

1) the next of kin still have not been fully informed, for example some maybe travelling.

2) the next of kin have asked for her details not to be released, which you have to respect as I wouldn't for my family.

To be honest, I don't see a reason why the details have to released at all and if they don't so be it.
RTT_Rules
Very much agree.  Just interested as there are two names, one has been released the other has not, which raised my curiosity.

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  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
A Train Authority was/is the authority to enter the section Donnybrook - Kilmore East, not the accompanying qualified worker (commonly referred to as being a pilot in this instance). What you have described is more for single line working where the pilot can authorize a driver passed a signal at stop to enter a section. A 'pilot' (a human staff) and someone 'piloting' (guiding) a train are different.

Hi Jakar,

From my (very limited) safe working training I would have thought that this was the type of situation where the pilotman or human staff was requried. Single line working on the SG (with passing loops) and signals not working? The training I have is for heritage work so deals with semaphore stuff but I thought the theory was pretty much the same?

I thought this section was 2 x BG and 1 x SG line or am i mistaken?

BG
BrentonGolding
Railway terminology can be a bit misleading at first glance sometimes. In Vic atleast, single line working is only applicable to double line systems (double line block + ABS), and is described as working the traffic of a double line over a single line during repairs or obstructions. In simple terms it means UP trains are run via the DOWN line or vice versa. This is the only time an actual pilot with an arm band and paper work etc can direct a driver to pass a signal at stop to enter the section.

So despite its name single line working is not applicable to systems such as CTC, ATC, track block etc that have a single track, because of that single line working is applicable to the BG at Wallan but not the SG. Caution orders / system caution orders and train authorities are provided to run trains over these other systems when required depending on the circumstances.
  Diverge Beginner
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Railway terminology can be a bit misleading at first glance sometimes. In Vic atleast, single line working is only applicable to double line systems (double line block + ABS), and is described as working the traffic of a double line over a single line during repairs or obstructions. In simple terms it means UP trains are run via the DOWN line or vice versa. This is the only time an actual pilot with an arm band and paper work etc can direct a driver to pass a signal at stop to enter the section.

So despite its name single line working is not applicable to systems such as CTC, ATC, track block etc that have a single track, because of that single line working is applicable to the BG at Wallan but not the SG. Caution orders / system caution orders and train authorities are provided to run trains over these other systems when required depending on the circumstances.
jakar
Thanks Jakar, I'll have to go back over my training manuals and try to figure out under what circumstances we would use a Pilotman on a single track branchline.
  marvin Assistant Commissioner

Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
May I suggest that now that the deceased Pilot has been named, that any further speculation or comment be halted, unless it pertains directly to the rail accident.

Lives have been lost. Let us respect that.

marvin
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  Diverge Beginner
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

This just aired a short time ago. I am not going to comment about the accident itself, except to say that the footage of another train going over the same stretch of track prior to the accident graphically shows the track's condition.

My question is: How can Australia ever hope to have fast passenger rail? I am sure this is not an isolated example of poor track conditions.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iF5nQOi2ic
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
This just aired a short time ago. I am not going to comment about the accident itself, except to say that the footage of another train going over the same stretch of track prior to the accident graphically shows the track's condition.

My question is: How can Australia ever hope to have fast passenger rail? I am sure this is not an isolated example of poor track conditions.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iF5nQOi2ic
ANR
I am happy to be corrected on this, but the clip in the video appears to be between Seymour and Albury.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This just aired a short time ago. I am not going to comment about the accident itself, except to say that the footage of another train going over the same stretch of track prior to the accident graphically shows the track's condition.

My question is: How can Australia ever hope to have fast passenger rail? I am sure this is not an isolated example of poor track conditions.
I am happy to be corrected on this, but the clip in the video appears to be between Seymour and Albury.
TheMeddlingMonk
I like his comment around 2:27 marke.

"Why are we focused on HSR when this track is a disgrace" (or words to this affect). I think many here have said the same thing over the years.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
This just aired a short time ago. I am not going to comment about the accident itself, except to say that the footage of another train going over the same stretch of track prior to the accident graphically shows the track's condition.

My question is: How can Australia ever hope to have fast passenger rail? I am sure this is not an isolated example of poor track conditions.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iF5nQOi2ic
I am happy to be corrected on this, but the clip in the video appears to be between Seymour and Albury.
TheMeddlingMonk
I tend to agree.  It's probably on the original SG track heading from Albury to Melbourne, with the converted broad gauge track on the right.  Does anyone know if there are similar issues with the converted broad gauge to SG line between Seymour and Albury.  I drive a couple of times a year from Sydney to Melbourne and back on the Hume Freeway/Motorway and note that both tracks are bi-directional on this sector.
  markcurtis Beginner

Location: Broken Hill, NSW
Does anyone know if the ARTC are diverting trains around the derailment site?  I suppose that would mean via Broken Hill and Adelaide.  Or is it a case of "line closed, make your own way" - another shot in the arm for the Trucking Industry...
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
PN are running Melbourne - Brisbane trains via Adelaide.
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Benalla, VIC
I am happy to be corrected on this, but the clip in the video appears to be between Seymour and Albury.
TheMeddlingMonk
Yes, it's the east line heading south at Bowser (near Wangaratta).

Both tracks on the NESG are bad, but often in different spots. eg Avenel to Euroa is pretty bad on the west line.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The video released today in the media shows just how bad the track is for trains. It is shocking actually and Vline service just as bad.

Why is John Holland do I tying to get work on the line when they have done such a poor job thus far ?
  M636C Minister for Railways

PN are running Melbourne - Brisbane trains via Adelaide.
Fatty
But some trains that would normally use the Blue Mountains like PS7 are still being diverted through Stockinbingal.
The Indian Pacific was allowed through the mountains today.
BM4 and MB4 crossed at Ivanhoe yesterday....

There appear to be delays due to the extra traffic between Stockinbingal and maybe Crystal Brook.

To revert to the derailment at Wallan. While I can understand people trying to use the event to lobby for improved track conditions, it is pretty clear that the derailment was due to a breakdown in safe working systems related to the signalling failure and that track conditions, as poor as they are, did not contribute to the derailment.

Peter
  route14 Chief Commissioner

An Age article suggested that the driver mightn't have been informed that the train was diverted via the "15 km/h loop".  Does this mean that the point leading to the loop has a diverging speed of 15 km/h?  I thought such points are only good for trams or inside train stabling and maintenance facilities.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The points at Wallan are good for 40 km/h but entry is controlled by a low speed signal so entry speed is 15 km/h.

Edit: Somerton and McIntyre are the same.
  Diverge Beginner

Further photos and videos from site today (BG lines still closed):

Photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pfijuvoyy4c9i0b/AABluegSTO5lV1PadTmyWmAea?dl=0

Video: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/73gkjmoml3wuukl/AAAvLVNXA9zle79Fwqq7eJ-5a?dl=0


Note the sub-folder which has some shots from the ground of the repair works
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
An Age article suggested that the driver mightn't have been informed that the train was diverted via the "15 km/h loop".  Does this mean that the point leading to the loop has a diverging speed of 15 km/h?  I thought such points are only good for trams or inside train stabling and maintenance facilities.
route14

I am wondering if the signals were working to show the aspect for the lower speed for the loop?  

if the driver did not know did the pilot?  Had they been informed?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The video released today in the media shows just how bad the track is for trains. It is shocking actually and Vline service just as bad.

Why is John Holland do I tying to get work on the line when they have done such a poor job thus far ?
freightgate

John Holland did the original gauge conversion work if I recall and they used side insertion for the sleeper replacement.  I am ware our good friend who covered this is no longer around but his work is on file here in the North East thread.

Just finished watching the video which appears to have been taken from an XPT cab and does cover the Wallan area.  The track is shocking.

The reason people are referring to the track conditions post this event is simply because the track (main) was out of service by accounts and that was due to the condition of the track.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The signals at Wallan were under repair due to damage of a signalling hut. They were not operating at the time of the incident. The XPT was not being run via the loop due to track condition, it was to 'descale' the track as a train hadn't been through there for nearly 72 hours.
  Diverge Beginner


........
Just finished watching the video which appears to have been taken from an XPT cab and does cover the Wallan area.  The track is shocking.

The reason people are referring to the track conditions post this event is simply because the track (main) was out of service by accounts and that was due to the condition of the track.
bevans

I don't think this is accurate, the video I saw was in NE Vic at Bowser, which is approx 200km away from Wallan.

Also, from reports the main was not out of service at all, trains had been traversing the section the days leading up to and including the day of the derailment.
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Benalla, VIC
An Age article suggested that the driver mightn't have been informed that the train was diverted via the "15 km/h loop".  Does this mean that the point leading to the loop has a diverging speed of 15 km/h?  I thought such points are only good for trams or inside train stabling and maintenance facilities.

I am wondering if the signals were working to show the aspect for the lower speed for the loop?  

if the driver did not know did the pilot?  Had they been informed?
bevans
If the signals were operating at the time, they would not have been used by the driver or pilotman on board the leading power car.

Drivers had been instructed to ignore the signals between Kilmore East and Donnybrook owing the signal hut fire.

I travelled on the adjacent broad gauge line hours before the derailment and specifically remember signals WLNU6 and WLN6 (down facing signals at the down end of the loop, the location of the derailment) were not showing any aspect at that time.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

........
Just finished watching the video which appears to have been taken from an XPT cab and does cover the Wallan area.  The track is shocking.

The reason people are referring to the track conditions post this event is simply because the track (main) was out of service by accounts and that was due to the condition of the track.
I don't think this is accurate, the video I saw was in NE Vic at Bowser, which is approx 200km away from Wallan.

Also, from reports the main was not out of service at all, trains had been traversing the section the days leading up to and including the day of the derailment.
Diverge
Yes, I thought it was stated in this forum that the train order issued at 7pm one hour prior was to switch trains over to the loop.

Perhaps the intent was to clean the rails in the loop?
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
That's exactly what the intent was. Why they chose the XPT to be the first train when it was already very late is unknown. MS2 was waiting at Donnybrook and could have done the job.

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