3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
I've heard similar - that the damage to the boiler is significant. But I've also heard, and it was from a source who knows, that 30's boiler is still repairable. That doesn't mean that the boiler will be repaired. That will depend on funding as you say. Let's hope that any decision is made by someone who understands steam so that we don't have a re-run of the German boiler. The cynic in me thinks that might be a forlorn hope.
The suck eggs side of this issue is that its the government who is forcing the move of the Powerhouse museum to Parramatta so they can make big money from the reuse of the existing PH museum.   From my perspective since the move is being forced by the government they should pay for the move as they will be paying for the new facilities at the chicken wire enclosure that was a car park next to the Parramatta river.

Whichever way things go, outside of 01 and it being readied for service, and lets not forget that the reason behind the German boiler being built was that the boiler on 01 was deemed unrepairable until the dud arrived.  Tells me that both 20 and 30 under similar circumstances would be more than likely repairable.
Hi,

Anything is repairable, especially if you are clever and can use some accounting tricks.

I understand that boiler Tab 3819 is mostly a new boiler.  What is original?  Maybe only the boiler barrel and the tab plug.

3830's current boiler can be rebuilt.  It just depends on which and how many components can be reused.

Remember grandfather's axe.  The NSWGR did this with many items of goods rolling stock, and possibly some engines.  the S wagon fleet was almost completely rebuilt during the 1950's with new underframes, wheels and bodies, but the same R/S number.

Boiler Tab 3801 could be placed on a brand new boiler, hence 3830's existing boiler has been rebuilt!

Happy steaming,

John
John,

My understanding is essentially the same as yours. Just about anything (boilers, tenders, connecting rods, even cabs - 3815's cab was damaged in an accident and replaced with the cab from 3805 which had been withdrawn earlier, making its number on the side of the cab look odd), except maybe the frame, could be interchanged with other locos. At one stage there were 2 6042s in service, Roundhouse (can't remember which one) referred to a 59 coming into Eveleigh for an overhaul and being outshopped under a different number. As you say, steam engines were a bit like grandpa's old axe.

As long as the boiler shell is sound, just about everything else in a boiler can be replaced - tubeplates, tubes, superheater elements, firebox. My understanding is that the boiler in 3830 (3801's original boiler) is quite sound boiler shell-wise. In fact, being the first boiler made, its shell is slightly thicker than the subsequent ones, which should be a bonus. So, if 3801's boiler cab be rebuilt there seems to be no reason 3830's can't be as well.
studdo
"can" be rebuilt. Sorry

Sponsored advertisement

  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

The boiler barrel is the easiest part of a boiler to fabricate. The firebox is the most difficult and costly. The only reason the barrels are not replaced is that they are not subject to the same deterioration when in service as the fireboxes.
Students of American steam will know of many locomotives that were 'rebuilt' that had very little of the original locomotive in the reincarnation. New boiler, new integral cast frame, new larger diameter boxpox wheels and roller bearing axle boxes, new tender. But the the number stayed the same so it was not a new locomotive.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
THNSW have recently posted a video on their facebook page showing 3642 pulling 3801's freshly painted tender out of the paintshop, in lined green as expected
http://shorturl.at/qyAC8
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
THNSW have recently posted a video on their facebook page showing 3642 pulling 3801's freshly painted tender out of the paintshop, in lined green as expected
http://shorturl.at/qyAC8
DCook
Thanks for alerting us as now I see 3642 has been converted to remote control as no crew in cab of the 36 class. Compare the green shades as well. Obviously a shunt loco hauling 3642 as well
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
THNSW have recently posted a video on their facebook page showing 3642 pulling 3801's freshly painted tender out of the paintshop, in lined green as expected
http://shorturl.at/qyAC8
Thanks for alerting us as now I see 3642 has been converted to remote control as no crew in cab of the 36 class. Compare the green shades as well. Obviously a shunt loco hauling 3642 as well
petan
3642 is clearly not in steam and being hauled dead. Looks like there might be a 44 at the head.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Some people in the comments have stated that it looks like the changing of the baton, from one mainline steam locomotive to another
  G Train Locomotive Driver

It looks like 27th March is the big day 3801 being returned to service at Central & available for rides at the Easter Steam Train Weekend.
https://m.facebook.com/NSWRailMuseum/
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Great news for all, if only their hadn't been a 10 year delay
A slightly better link
https://www.thnsw.com.au/3801
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Unfortunate but understandable news from THNSW, the relaunch of 3801 has been postponed indefinitely due to the government recommendations on non essential public gatherings due to the high coronavirus risk
This will probably affect steamfest and other upcoming events badly
http://shorturl.at/AKW13
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

THNSW has just emailed to its members a picture of a repainted 3801. It looks fabulous, almost too good to be true. The whiskers on the nose cone and side of the boiler seem to be a deeper gold than before, but I'm not going to quibble about that. Also, the green seems a bit deeper than before although not as deep as 3830; but sometimes you can't always tell from a photo. I wonder if these are closer to the original colours after it was repainted from grey in about 1947.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Great news, if only this damn pandemic hadn't stopped the official relaunch
A public link
http://shorturl.at/rGLP7

Interesting to note the deeper green and the unpainted cylinders which I assume is temporary
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

Great news, if only this damn pandemic hadn't stopped the official relaunch
A public link
http://shorturl.at/rGLP7

Interesting to note the deeper green and the unpainted cylinders which I assume is temporary
DCook
Without being certain, I seem to recall reading somewhere (Roundhouse, John Thompson's book?) that originally 38 cylinder covers were painted in unlined black. It could very well be that 3801 is now as it was when it was repainted from workshops grey.
Now, if only they could do something about that welded tender (even sticking on false rivet heads so that it at looks authentic would look better than it is now).
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Great news, if only this damn pandemic hadn't stopped the official relaunch
A public link
http://shorturl.at/rGLP7

Interesting to note the deeper green and the unpainted cylinders which I assume is temporary
Without being certain, I seem to recall reading somewhere (Roundhouse, John Thompson's book?) that originally 38 cylinder covers were painted in unlined black. It could very well be that 3801 is now as it was when it was repainted from workshops grey.
Now, if only they could do something about that welded tender (even sticking on false rivet heads so that it at looks authentic would look better than it is now).
studdo
Sticking rivet heads on the tender could a future project planned for authenticity
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets repainted in grey in 2023 for it's 80th birthday
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

Great news, if only this damn pandemic hadn't stopped the official relaunch
A public link
http://shorturl.at/rGLP7

Interesting to note the deeper green and the unpainted cylinders which I assume is temporary
Without being certain, I seem to recall reading somewhere (Roundhouse, John Thompson's book?) that originally 38 cylinder covers were painted in unlined black. It could very well be that 3801 is now as it was when it was repainted from workshops grey.
Now, if only they could do something about that welded tender (even sticking on false rivet heads so that it at looks authentic would look better than it is now).
Sticking rivet heads on the tender could a future project planned for authenticity
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets repainted in grey in 2023 for it's 80th birthday
DCook
We should start a campaign to put false rivet heads on the tender. I agree about repainting it in grey. It spent a bit of time in grey (early 2006? - I remember going to the Lovedale Long Lunch with Classic Train Tours and 3801 was painted grey, I thought it was 2006 but maybe 2005, it was a temporary livery - after it got new tyres I think -  before it was repainted green not long before it reverted to the RTM.). I thought it looked OK but grey should only be temporary, green is a better livery.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
How many of the people suggesting false rivet heads on the tender and painting the loco grey are ( or have been) active volunteers with preservation groups?
Do any of you know what it costs to paint a loco and tender?

I was secretary of one group for some years, and was nearly driven mad by phone calls that started with, "Why don't you...." or "You should....."
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
How many of the people suggesting false rivet heads on the tender and painting the loco grey are ( or have been) active volunteers with preservation groups?
Do any of you know what it costs to paint a loco and tender?

I was secretary of one group for some years, and was nearly driven mad by phone calls that started with, "Why don't you...." or "You should....."
Valvegear
You do raise a good point that I most certainly should have thought about, but then again there were plenty of times when heritage steam locomotives were repainted fully for seemingly no reason. Two examples that come to mind are 5461 to green in 2018(that happened for one day and was then washed off) and 3801 to grey in 2005
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner

To help celebrate 3801's "digital" unveiling today, here's some footage from Easter twenty years ago when 3801, along with 3830, worked one of its most famous tours, the legendary "Millennium Aurora" to Victoria.
Enjoy,
BW.





https://youtu.be/r-g0VbkGaGc
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
Nice video!  Some more shots from Wodonga to Seymour:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTalEkCTwJw
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
And some more shots, deep in enemy territory:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FqgGfondc
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
How many of the people suggesting false rivet heads on the tender and painting the loco grey are ( or have been) active volunteers with preservation groups?
Do any of you know what it costs to paint a loco and tender?

I was secretary of one group for some years, and was nearly driven mad by phone calls that started with, "Why don't you...." or "You should....."
You do raise a good point that I most certainly should have thought about, but then again there were plenty of times when heritage steam locomotives were repainted fully for seemingly no reason. Two examples that come to mind are 5461 to green in 2018(that happened for one day and was then washed off) and 3801 to grey in 2005
DCook
Plus the Cadbury repaint, which increased awareness of the steam fleet in popular media.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
A new picture of 3801 today at Thirlmere station after a run on the loopline, apparently for a promotional film
http://shorturl.at/cdBL4
  a6et Minister for Railways

THNSW has just emailed to its members a picture of a repainted 3801. It looks fabulous, almost too good to be true. The whiskers on the nose cone and side of the boiler seem to be a deeper gold than before, but I'm not going to quibble about that. Also, the green seems a bit deeper than before although not as deep as 3830; but sometimes you can't always tell from a photo. I wonder if these are closer to the original colours after it was repainted from grey in about 1947.
studdo
Its interesting with the brass/bronze like yellow whiskers and linings, also how thin they are as well.  There are some coloured photo's around that do show some had thinner whiskers but in general, they were still a bit more separated on the nose and side of the boiler area's. Some including 02 had a thicker whisker and lining, which was also in the same colour & paint that 01 was painted in when it came out of Cardiff after its 60's RTS.

Personally though, I do not like the colour of the whiskers, and would prefer the more chrome yellow that was the most common, and a bit more separated and thicker.
  a6et Minister for Railways

How many of the people suggesting false rivet heads on the tender and painting the loco grey are ( or have been) active volunteers with preservation groups?
Do any of you know what it costs to paint a loco and tender?

I was secretary of one group for some years, and was nearly driven mad by phone calls that started with, "Why don't you...." or "You should....."
You do raise a good point that I most certainly should have thought about, but then again there were plenty of times when heritage steam locomotives were repainted fully for seemingly no reason. Two examples that come to mind are 5461 to green in 2018(that happened for one day and was then washed off) and 3801 to grey in 2005
DCook
Not forgetting LVR's 59cl also was painted in a deep green, and had the turret tender for some time also.
  a6et Minister for Railways

And some more shots, deep in enemy territory:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FqgGfondc
steamfreak
After just watching this video, I rest my case regarding the sound of a 38cl whistle, especially that of O1 on this tour when compared to how it is/was on the trials this year.  Of note also is the difference in 30's whistle as well.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
And some more shots, deep in enemy territory:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FqgGfondc
After just watching this video, I rest my case regarding the sound of a 38cl whistle, especially that of O1 on this tour when compared to how it is/was on the trials this year.  Of note also is the difference in 30's whistle as well.
a6et
I know this was discussed earlier, but I can't recall which you preferred.  I prefer 3830's more deep throated version, which is what I typically remember in the era.  3801's whistle in the video is a bit too high pitched for me.  It's a bit like the difference between a tenor and a baritone, the latter which I also prefer.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: