Government should consider limiting or banning public transport, expert claims

 

News article: Government should consider limiting or banning public transport, expert claims

Limiting the number of passengers on trains, trams and buses or 

  Goose13 Station Master

Location: Having a sook about Southern cross's western wall
If they don't have a drivers licence, they can put an L on their window.
djf01
Yes, fantastic idea, nothing at all can possibly go wrong, can really see decision makers embracing this perfect solution that has no discernible downsides.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If they don't have a drivers licence, they can put an L on their window.
Yes, fantastic idea, nothing at all can possibly go wrong, can really see decision makers embracing this perfect solution that has no discernible downsides.
Goose13
You think they might hit another car on the road? That would in such an scenario be extremely unlikely.

Drove to work this morning on Dubai to Abu Dhabi highway, had cruise control set at just below legal max speed of 140km/h and barely touched it. Normally it would be impractical to use cruise control on this road almost any time of the day apart from late at night and I certainly wouldn't be this fast.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
New report just released on passenger numbers across many rail networks. https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/public-transit-use-drops-worldwide-during-coronavirus-crackdown  from what I have seen at my local station Metro volumes have dropped considerably.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

If you do close public transport what alternative do you offer to essential personal that rely on it?
Goose13
Plenty of options:

Government lays on a taxi for individual workers as necessary.

Government lays on a bus to do a school bus style run for workers heading into a given facility.

Essential workers are put up in a hotel close to their facility.
  gmanning1 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
If you do close public transport what alternative do you offer to essential personal that rely on it?
Essential workers are put up in a hotel close to their facility.
justapassenger
SA now implementing this.

https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/more-sa-nurses-to-join-virus-fight/news-story/fff6b73ae75dc6848c22faed02267ff1
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
China the UK and Italy are still running trains I have just checked.

India has just stopped all services until May 31.  UK now have issues with overcrowding.
bevans
You think the Tube is overcrowded now and not before?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

If you do close public transport what alternative do you offer to essential personal that rely on it?
Plenty of options:

Government lays on a taxi for individual workers as necessary.

Government lays on a bus to do a school bus style run for workers heading into a given facility.

Essential workers are put up in a hotel close to their facility.
justapassenger

No offence, but all of these are bad ideas.  Putting essential workers up in hotels, putting them on a communal bus or putting them in Taxi's is like putting them all up on the Ruby Princess.  The *best* option is to keep them in cars, on their own, have no contact with anyone else on the way to and from work (it's even *more* important for essential workers to do this), then as few people as possible.

The next best option is the spouse drives them to work, and neither have any contact with anyone else.

The next best option is for them to stay at home.  No-one is that essential.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Whatever your political persuasion, she's right.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

 No-one is that essential.
djf01
umm, Dr's, Nurse, Pathologist, hospital cleaners, hospital cooks, hospital laundry workers, delivery truck drivers, police, fire, Ambo's, Telco workers, energy supply/generation, water/sewer workers, toilet paper and other personal hygiene factory workers, Supermarket workers, aluminium smelter workers and other industries that don't come with an off-switch, pilots and aircraft maintenance workers (freight), logistics workers, rubbish collection.........
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


 No-one is that essential.umm, Dr's, Nurse, Pathologist, hospital cleaners, hospital cooks, hospital laundry workers, delivery truck drivers, police, fire, Ambo's, Telco workers, energy supply/generation, water/sewer workers, toilet paper and other personal hygiene factory workers, Supermarket workers, aluminium smelter workers and other industries that don't come with an off-switch, pilots and aircraft maintenance workers (freight), logistics workers, rubbish collection.........
RTT_Rules

Collectively they are.  Individually they are not.  

If just one out of 200 of them gets public transport to work and infects the lot of them, we're F-ed.  If just one goes into quarantine or is taken out of the workforce after being infected by a colleague - the whole point of giving them and exemption is mute.

Shut down public transport now.

And FFS stay home!  (You too @RTT_Rules)
  Upven Locomotive Driver


 No-one is that essential.umm, Dr's, Nurse, Pathologist, hospital cleaners, hospital cooks, hospital laundry workers, delivery truck drivers, police, fire, Ambo's, Telco workers, energy supply/generation, water/sewer workers, toilet paper and other personal hygiene factory workers, Supermarket workers, aluminium smelter workers and other industries that don't come with an off-switch, pilots and aircraft maintenance workers (freight), logistics workers, rubbish collection.........
Collectively they are.  Individually they are not.  

If just one out of 200 of them gets public transport to work and infects the lot of them, we're F-ed.  If just one goes into quarantine or is taken out of the workforce after being infected by a colleague - the whole point of giving them and exemption is mute.

Shut down public transport now.

And FFS stay home!  (You too @RTT_Rules)
djf01
Bit hyperbolic don't you think? If they maintain social distancing in the workplace, and the trains are basically empty, why not continue running them for those who need it.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

 No-one is that essential.umm, Dr's, Nurse, Pathologist, hospital cleaners, hospital cooks, hospital laundry workers, delivery truck drivers, police, fire, Ambo's, Telco workers, energy supply/generation, water/sewer workers, toilet paper and other personal hygiene factory workers, Supermarket workers, aluminium smelter workers and other industries that don't come with an off-switch, pilots and aircraft maintenance workers (freight), logistics workers, rubbish collection.........
Collectively they are.  Individually they are not.  

If just one out of 200 of them gets public transport to work and infects the lot of them, we're F-ed.  If just one goes into quarantine or is taken out of the workforce after being infected by a colleague - the whole point of giving them and exemption is mute.

Shut down public transport now.

And FFS stay home!  (You too @RTT_Rules)
djf01
I agree PT can be significantly scaled back if not completely closed as SCOMO moves to do whats needed, albeit a bit late.

As for me, I am not allowed to stay at home as I don't meet the criteria to work at home as my role is deemed site critical, so I'll continue my effortless drive to work for the time being.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Bit hyperbolic don't you think? If they maintain social distancing in the workplace, and the trains are basically empty, why not continue running them for those who need it.
Upven
I think the rail system can be shut down or mostly shut down soon with buses doing the rounds after that.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Bit hyperbolic don't you think? If they maintain social distancing in the workplace, and the trains are basically empty, why not continue running them for those who need it.
Upven

No.  1.5m social distancing is not a medical recommendation.  There is no direct evidence it works for COV19.  It's a protocol for Flu, which is far less contageous.  It's a recommendation designed to achieve an outcome: trains can keep running.

Worst of all it's giving people the false impression it's safe to go out (when it's not), which is the purpose of the policy.

> Why not continue running them for those who need it?
Because 10s of thousands of people in Australia, possibly hundreds of thousands and as a worst case over 1 million people are going to die if we do.  

Much as I hate to say this, ATM the only truly safe way to travel is alone in your own car.
  Totoro Locomotive Fireman

I can’t speak for others, but on my line (T9 in Sydney), the service/frequency has been exceptionally good. I usually travel in the 7-8am period and there’s always adequate space for everyone to maintain the requisite separation even through the city core stations.

I hope the NSW Govt sees fit keep the trains running even if Stage 3 comes into effect. As someone that works in a hospital, but doesn’t have a car or a drivers license, I absolutely rely on this service.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I can’t speak for others, but on my line (T9 in Sydney), the service/frequency has been exceptionally good. I usually travel in the 7-8am period and there’s always adequate space for everyone to maintain the requisite separation even through the city core stations.

I hope the NSW Govt sees fit keep the trains running even if Stage 3 comes into effect. As someone that works in a hospital, but doesn’t have a car or a drivers license, I absolutely rely on this service.
Totoro

This is precisely why Public transport needs to be shut down NOW.

@Totoro is particularly at risk of getting it, and particularly at risk of being a super spreader.  Every 3 trains that run are potentially their own Ruby Princess.

@Totoro, is there anyone in your household who could drive you to and from work?  If not, FFS call in sick, and stop risking tens of thousands of lives.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
In Wellington New Zealand I understand that passengers are being made to board buses via the back door, railway employees are riding in a separate carriage to passengers and fares are not being charged for the time being.

Should a similar approach be followed here.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I also heard that some passengers caught COVID-19 on a Canberra bus.
  Totoro Locomotive Fireman

@djf01

Hold your horses for a moment.

The government advice is that a 4m2 exclusion zone about each person shall apply. That advice is based on guidance from chief medical experts across the country. In my recent experience, Sydney trains is absolutely compliant with that, at least on T9.

Unless you think you have specific evidence of a compliance issue, then my only advice is that you need to get informed, STAT.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Thank you for your work in keeping the country and its people healthy and safe.  I condemn any discrimination against medical staff.
  Totoro Locomotive Fireman

Thanks route14.

It’s true, these are very concerning times and we all have to remain diligent, attentive and calm.

If Sydney Trains were as crowded as what we’ve been seeing on the London Tube, then I would absolutely agree with dfj01 and I would seriously consider finding an alternate way to get to work.

Thankfully as far as Sydney Trains is concerned, both travellers and staff seem to be super informed and very compliant with the guidelines. This evening there were even PA announcement reinforcing the advice; e.g. requesting commuters to leave an empty row between themselves and the next traveller, and spacing out evenly throughout the carriages.

The frequency of services is high enough that this is possible on a train that - on a more normal day - might be at 150% capacity. I am hugely impressed with Sydney Trains right now, in some ways the service and level of professionalism has never been better.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

@djf01

Hold your horses for a moment.

The government advice is that a 4m2 exclusion zone about each person shall apply. That advice is based on guidance from chief medical experts across the country. In my recent experience, Sydney trains is absolutely compliant with that, at least on T9.

Unless you think you have specific evidence of a compliance issue, then my only advice is that you need to get informed, STAT.
Totoro

This, is precisely why PT needs to be shut down.

Everyone is covering their farse/bottom, rather than making hard calls they are prepared to put their names to.  No-one, certainly not the Prime Minister, certainly not the CMO, have been prepared to identify which "experts" have made these recommendations.  

There are plenty of experts (who *are* prepared to put their names to their comments) and plenty of published case studies that say it's not.  It's not safe for train guards in New Zealand.


As to the science, as pointed out earlier, there is no direct evidence 4m2, 1.5m, 2m etc is safe, anymore than there was that outdoor gathering of 500 people was safe last week.  There is plenty of case evidence (from all the contact tracing) to the contrary.

Normally, it's fair enough to say "if you want to believe a politician, be my guest".  But in @Totoro's case, the risk to himself is pretty low.  But he's risking killing tens of thousands of other people, but it's OK because he'll never know if he did, and besides, he's got a note from his mother.

This is why half a million people are going to die in Australia.  But at least the service on T8 is pretty good.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

One more thing @Totoro, FFS get someone FROM YOUR HOUSEHOLD to drive you to work.

If you are medical staff or cleaning (ie genuinely essential, not there to refill the coke machine), please
PM me and I will personally organize and pay for somewhere close enough to work for you not to use PT.
  Totoro Locomotive Fireman

dfj01, I would point to the following article from the ABC as a good collection of evidence that is in line with what I’m saying.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/12084418

My advice to you would be as follows. By all means, do not travel on public transport unless it’s absolutely essential. And especially do not use it if you suspect you may be ill or have been instructed to self-isolate. If indeed you must travel via public transport, practice social distancing measures and impeccable hand hygiene. Be aware of the people around you. But there is no need to panic.

Given that a vast number of essential services personnel rely on public transport to get their employees to work, you’re going to be out of pocket very fast if you’re going to take it upon yourself to force a taxi ride on everyone. (And in terms of risk, I shouldn’t need to point out that a car makes for an even smaller confined space than a train carriage.)

All the best.

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