Germany-Denmark rail tunnel gets funding green light

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 Mar 2020 16:02
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
With funding now being green light to move forward this project looks certain to go ahead even in the current environment.  

Dual tracks wiAC overhead network with electrfication connecting to the 25KvA overhead.



The blue lines are SG with 25 KvA overhead.

One assumes through freight from eastern europe and China will be a part of the business case.

Germany-Denmark rail tunnel gets funding green light

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

One assumes through freight from eastern europe and China will be a part of the business case.
bevans
I doubt it.

The rail traffic from China is going to drop off as the subsidies are withdrawn (none of them are viable) and would only account for a couple of trains per week going into Denmark anyway.

On top of that, a lot of European companies are going to be reassessing their reliance on China promptly and looking to make changes in the medium term.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

What a horrible map. It shows the existing routes, but not the ferry crossing. The proposed tunnel between Puttgarden and Rodby follows the same route as that crossing, and therefore isn't shown at all.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

What a horrible map. It shows the existing routes, but not the ferry crossing. The proposed tunnel between Puttgarden and Rodby follows the same route as that crossing, and therefore isn't shown at all.
duttonbay
The map is not actually related to the report (not even Rail Express would publish that) and is actually one that @bevans grabbed from the Rail Transport in Denmark article on Wikipedia showing a break down of the main railways in Denmark by electrification status in 2018.

As it isn't yet known whether the tunnel will have Danish 25kV or German 15kV electrical supply, I would suggest it is pretty irrelevant at this point in time.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

What a horrible map. It shows the existing routes, but not the ferry crossing. The proposed tunnel between Puttgarden and Rodby follows the same route as that crossing, and therefore isn't shown at all.
The map is not actually related to the report (not even Rail Express would publish that) and is actually one that @bevans grabbed from the Rail Transport in Denmark article on Wikipedia showing a break down of the main railways in Denmark by electrification status in 2018.

As it isn't yet known whether the tunnel will have Danish 25kV or German 15kV electrical supply, I would suggest it is pretty irrelevant at this point in time.
justapassenger
Thanks, That would explain its irrelevance to the article. I agree that the mode of electrification is also irrelevant at this time.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I was not aware there were two electrification standard difference between Germany and Denmark.  I assumed 25 KvA was the european standard?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I was not aware there were two electrification standard difference between Germany and Denmark.  I assumed 25 KvA was the european standard?
bevans
15kV is used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, and Norway.  The voltage being fed into the overhead is measured in volts (kV) rather than kVA.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I was not aware there were two electrification standard difference between Germany and Denmark.  I assumed 25 KvA was the european standard?
15kV is used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, and Norway.  The voltage being fed into the overhead is measured in volts (kV) rather than kVA.
duttonbay
That's correct though Germany, Austria and Switzerland run on 16.7 Hz where Sweden and Norway run on 16 and two thirds Hz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_electrification_system#/media/File:Europe_rail_electrification_en.svg
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
That's correct though Germany, Austria and Switzerland run on 16.7 Hz where Sweden and Norway run on 16 and two thirds Hz
Nightfire

Would not be at all surprised to find that 16.7 is a misprint or a rounding up of 16.666... Hz ie 16+2/3rd's

Missed out on the Puttgarden-Rodby rail ferry last year because it was not running and there was only bustitution instead. So went the longer way from Hamburg to Copenhagen instead. The ferry must be a bit of a problem if they want to get rid of it entirely.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That's correct though Germany, Austria and Switzerland run on 16.7 Hz where Sweden and Norway run on 16 and two thirds Hz

Would not be at all surprised to find that 16.7 is a misprint or a rounding up of 16.666... Hz ie 16+2/3rd's
apw5910
No, the German (and adjacent countries) rail electrification system is actually 16.7 Hz.

It was previously 16 2/3 Hz (one third of the normal grid frequency) but the frequency was changed to 16.7 Hz in the 1990s to eliminate DC interference coming through.

Missed out on the Puttgarden-Rodby rail ferry last year because it was not running and there was only bustitution instead. So went the longer way from Hamburg to Copenhagen instead. The ferry must be a bit of a problem if they want to get rid of it entirely.
apw5910
The ferry service has now permanently terminated, to make way for the tunnel construction.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Do we know why the ferry service was stopped?

I was planning on being in Europe June/July this year but obviously had to cancel.  My family tree goes back to Denmark so was planning the overnight sleeper train to Copenhagen from Amsterdam which according to the web uses a rail ferry service.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

To make way for the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link tunnel construction.

Passenger trains will go via Jutland and Funen until the tunnel is complete, which is the route that all freight trains have been using for over 20 years now.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Missed out on the Puttgarden-Rodby rail ferry last year because it was not running and there was only bustitution instead. So went the longer way from Hamburg to Copenhagen instead. The ferry must be a bit of a problem if they want to get rid of it entirely.Last year I traveled from Berlin to Malmö

The train from Hamburg to København traveled by the ferry "M/F Prinsesse Benedikte" at Rødbyhavn most passengers changed to road coaches bound express for København (I didn't get that message to change to a road coach at Rødbyhavn)

The train (I was on) from Hamburg continued on to Eskilstrup where the train terminated, road coaches than convoyed passengers to Næstved where I found a train bound for København.

The train from København to Malmö had boarder control at Malmö Hyllie station.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The rail routes on both sides are backwaters.

The rail component of the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link project will be a white elephant if they are not upgraded.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Note the Puttgarden-Rodby ferry has not stopped, just its rail use. It is still used by cars and trucks (and pedestrians), running every 30 minutes.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The rail routes on both sides are backwaters.

The rail component of the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link project will be a white elephant if they are not upgraded.
justapassenger
Correct the rail lines on both sides of the belt are only low standard branch lines, that have a lot of overgrown disused yards crossing loops because this was the only rail link between Continental Northern Europe and Scandinavia, before the Great Fixed Belt Link was opened.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Glad I managed to travel the ferry by rail a couple of years ago. The train had two cars, sleeper and couchette and ran pretty well express overnight. We woke while we were on the ferry so very gentle handling. The train deck was packed with freight and we sat to one side as trains were reassembled with a good view of operations from the end window. Then we had an express run to Malmo. I'll try to post some photos when I emerge from isolation! Oddly the connection to Copenhagen was chaotic. There was a signal fault and we were turned back on the Oresund and told we would go by bus. In the time it took to organise the buses the fault was fixed so we got back on the train!!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Some photos would be fantastic please.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Every time I have traveled on that ferry (4 times between 2013 and 2019)
Everyone on board the train and road coaches was ordered to go up to the ferry deck, where they had plenty of shops to spend your money.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is the ferry still taking freight cars?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

No.

All freight trains use the longer route via Jutland and Funen as they have for over 20 years now since the Great Belt Fixed Link was opened.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Is the ferry still taking freight cars?
bevans
The freight marshaling yards at each ferry terminal on both side are still In place, but disconnected and overgrown.

Has a very eerie look to It, like something you see In former Eastern Bloc Countries.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Glad I managed to travel the ferry by rail a couple of years ago. The train had two cars, sleeper and couchette and ran pretty well express overnight. We woke while we were on the ferry so very gentle handling. The train deck was packed with freight and we sat to one side as trains were reassembled with a good view of operations from the end window. Then we had an express run to Malmo. I'll try to post some photos when I emerge from isolation! Oddly the connection to Copenhagen was chaotic. There was a signal fault and we were turned back on the Oresund and told we would go by bus. In the time it took to organise the buses the fault was fixed so we got back on the train!!
62440
Apologies for confusing ferries, in recent years I have used the Sassnitz to Trelleborg, the one that runs from Berlin, with the Rodby to Puttgarden which just takes the dmu and does indeed turf you off to go shopping. The freight yards were weedstrewn quite a few years ago. I guess the Sassnitz to Trelleborg still runs, a bit far to tunnel and a long way round.

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