CP Rail moves record 2.8 million tonnes of grain in April

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 06 May 2020 16:36
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Looking for a comparison to Canada story and Australian operators.  Are there any operators in Australia who would move 2.8m tonnes or more in a month being any type of grain?

Could Watco in WA do this?

How is the thunder bay terminal used when it is in a lake closed?

CP Rail moves record 2.8 million tonnes of grain in April

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Ships from Thunder Bay can go direct to other countries using the Saint Lawrence Seaway.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Looking for a comparison to Canada story and Australian operators.  Are there any operators in Australia who would move 2.8m tonnes or more in a month being any type of grain?

Could Watco in WA do this?

How is the thunder bay terminal used when it is in a lake closed?

CP Rail moves record 2.8 million tonnes of grain in April
NSWGR8022

A very good year in Western Australia will see a harvest of 18 million tonnes - which would only be 6 months of rail haulage by Canadian standards. Given that not all that 18m in WA will go by rail, it is highly unlikely Watco could manage the task, although the reality is they will never have to.

For the rest of the country you have five operators competing for the harvest - PN, QUBE, SSR, One Rail and Aurizon (a tiny bit) so none are going to come close to 2.8mt a month.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Looking for a comparison to Canada story and Australian operators.  Are there any operators in Australia who would move 2.8m tonnes or more in a month being any type of grain?

Could Watco in WA do this?

How is the thunder bay terminal used when it is in a lake closed?

CP Rail moves record 2.8 million tonnes of grain in April

A very good year in Western Australia will see a harvest of 18 million tonnes - which would only be 6 months of rail haulage by Canadian standards. Given that not all that 18m in WA will go by rail, it is highly unlikely Watco could manage the task, although the reality is they will never have to.

For the rest of the country you have five operators competing for the harvest - PN, QUBE, SSR, One Rail and Aurizon (a tiny bit) so none are going to come close to 2.8mt a month.
bingley hall
Doesnt help when Canadian Pacific run block 180 car grains Razz
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Appreciate the info on Thunder Bay I was unaware of the passage.

The idea of CP moving this much grain is very impressive if it takes 5 operators in Australia to move the same amount of grain.  CP must really have excellent timetabling and loading practices.

What percentage of the entire CP accessible harvest do we guess would go on rail?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If I recall Canada has the advantage that grain is railed very long distances to port using train sizes that replicate the CQ coal trains in axle loads and length, thus making truck competition less viable. Their grain also seems very centralised, unlikely Australia
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Calgary to Thunder Bay is 2000 kms that's quite a distance, but I still cannot see how this Thunder Bay works when I cannot find an opening to the sea from the Bay.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Calgary to Thunder Bay is 2000 kms that's quite a distance, but I still cannot see how this Thunder Bay works when I cannot find an opening to the sea from the Bay.
NSWGR8022
It goes to the Atlantic Ocean via the Saint Lawrence Seaway.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Appreciate the info on Thunder Bay I was unaware of the passage.

The idea of CP moving this much grain is very impressive if it takes 5 operators in Australia to move the same amount of grain.  CP must really have excellent timetabling and loading practices.

What percentage of the entire CP accessible harvest do we guess would go on rail?
NSWGR8022
If I recall Canada has the advantage that grain is railed very long distances to port using train sizes that replicate the CQ coal trains in axle loads and length, thus making truck competition less viable. Their grain also seems very centralised, unlikely Australia
RTT_Rules
Very long haul grain. Certain provinces restrict truck trailer weight per axle too.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIN36ngrs1g

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Calgary to Thunder Bay is 2000 kms that's quite a distance, but I still cannot see how this Thunder Bay works when I cannot find an opening to the sea from the Bay.
It goes to the Atlantic Ocean via the Saint Lawrence Seaway.
justapassenger
Interesting, you got me reading!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Thunder_Bay,_Ontario
https://www.portofthunderbay.com/



Look at that for grain handling!

Even once on the ship they have 3000km to get to the sea.

If Australia had a decent river into the Riverina region towards the Mildura, I'd dare say we have buggerall rail grain traffic at all.

Could you imagine the quality of track we would have if we had to rail millions of tonnes of grain every year from Alice Spings to the coast?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The network for Canadian Pacific (towards the bottom of the page):
https://www.cpr.ca/en/our-markets/grain

and Canadian National:
https://www.cn.ca/en/your-industry/grain/

Some of the grain goes west to Prince Rupert (CN) and Vancouver (CN & CP). West of Calgary and Edmonton it has to cross the Rockies, via Yellowhead Pass (3700 ft – CN), (the infamous?) Kicking Horse Pass (5300 ft – CP) or Crowsnest Pass (4400 ft – CP). East of the two cities it’s generally flat to at least the Great Lakes.

The article doesn’t say Calgary grain is railed to Thunder Bay. It just says that CP’s headquarters are in Calgary and that the Thunder Bay terminal had opened for the season, presumably because either there is no demand in winter or the ice in the lakes had melted.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Calgary to Thunder Bay is 2000 kms that's quite a distance, but I still cannot see how this Thunder Bay works when I cannot find an opening to the sea from the Bay.
It goes to the Atlantic Ocean via the Saint Lawrence Seaway.
justapassenger

I need some help with this location of the seaway please.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

NE corner of Lake Ontario (for the Saint Lawrence River part):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lawrence_Seaway

(Where Thousand Island dressing originated.)
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
NE corner of Lake Ontario (for the Saint Lawrence River part):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lawrence_Seaway

(Where Thousand Island dressing originated.)
kitchgp

Just what I needed actually and I thank you.

I guess I had real trouble getting my head around such large ships travelling so far inland into a continent.  It would be like a  major vessel in Australia docking in Broken Hill I guess.  I suppose the early days had many paddle steamers travelling up and down the Darling and Murray Rivers but did they actually exist the Murray River at the mouth in South Australia?

Am also quite interested in how it could be competitive for a large shop given all the locks and the tight turns to move cargo to the Atlantic as opposed to move the grain by rail across to a  major port on the Eastern Seaboard like Quebec City.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
NE corner of Lake Ontario (for the Saint Lawrence River part):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lawrence_Seaway

(Where Thousand Island dressing originated.)
kitchgp

Just what I needed actually and I thank you.

I guess I had real trouble getting my head around such large ships travelling so far inland into a continent.  It would be like a  major vessel in Australia docking in Broken Hill I guess.  I suppose the early days had many paddle steamers travelling up and down the Darling and Murray Rivers but did they actually exist the Murray River at the mouth in South Australia?

Am also quite interested in how it could be competitive for a large shop given all the locks and the tight turns to move cargo to the Atlantic as opposed to move the grain by rail across to a  major port on the Eastern Seaboard like Quebec City.
"NSWGR8022"


My understanding is shipping is nearly always more favorable than rail provided the time frame difference is only a few days to a week.

Also why the so called land-bridge of the Adelaide to Darwin railway proved to be a false claim.    

The ships wouldn't be taking the grain if they were not competitive against rail, no transshipment probably makes a huge difference.

I think only very shallow draft steamers entered the Murray, probably why as soon as rail was a viable alternative, it won.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A map of the Seaway

  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I think only very shallow draft steamers entered the Murray, probably why as soon as rail was a viable alternative, it won.
RTT_Rules
A few river boats entered the Murray Mouth from the sea, but most of them were assembled on the river (often freighted over the Mt Lofty Ranges to Mannum using bullock trains) and never left the river system.

Rail was actually part of the river boat intermodal freight system, not its replacement.

- From 1854-64, a horse-drawn tramway was used to transfer goods between river boats at Goolwa and coastal/oceanic ships at Port Elliot.
- In 1864 the sea port was shifted to the safer anchorage at Port Victor (now Victor Harbor) and the tramway extended.
- In 1878 the Morgan railway line was completed and freight started being conveyed between Morgan and Port Adelaide.

Deregulation of road transport was what led to the decline of river boats in the 20th century, not rail.

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