Start Sydney to Canberra high speed rail now: chief executives

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 04 Nov 2019 13:43
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Instead of the smartarse comments, let's get back on track to the subject of this thread.  
Transtopic
The "smartarse comments" show you just how seriously this damnfool idea is taken, by those of us who choose to think sensibly about such an absurd waste of money.

Put high speed rail where it makes a significant difference to a large number of people, over a decent distance. Sydney-Canberra and Melbourne-Geelong are both in Fantasyland.

Sponsored advertisement

  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Take your seats; normals to the left and dicks to the right please.
Valvegear

Your left, or mine?
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
I cannot understand why some people here are so Canberra centric .
Your average punter could not give a damn about the place because its in the middle of nowhere and has so little to offer .
Why blow billions to bias a proposed interstate railway when precious few would use it , more than once anyway .
BDA
Not sure what the definition of an "average punter" is, but this has to be recognized as a totally subjective view. Visitor numbers to Canberra currently run at 5.5M per year, no "average punters" there?Smile

https://tourism.act.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Tourism-Snapshot_June-2019.pdf
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
After reading back through this thread, I have to admit that I got somewhat side-tracked (shunted) up another path and apologies to those with whom I had some disagreement.

The original news item was about business and development groups calling for a High Speed Rail (HST) link between Sydney and Canberra.  On its own, it's clearly not feasible, with such a small potential patronage and financial return in relation to the cost, as RTT pointed out.  As part of a broader High Speed Rail system between the major capital cities on the eastern seaboard, then that's an entirely different matter. Even then, it would be many decades before this would be feasible, if ever.

Where we diverged from the debate was to suggest a more realistic goal of upgrading the existing track at far less cost to a Medium Speed Rail (MSR) standard, allowing speeds up to 200km/h.  You can use the analogy of the upgrading of the National Highway Network between Melbourne and Brisbane from the slow single lane goat tracks that they were to faster and safer dual carriageway standard, which has almost been completed.  In fact I've just driven from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast and back and the final section to dual carriageway standard between Grafton and Ballina will be completed next year.  Imagine what could be achieved if a similar commitment was made by the State and Federal governments to upgrade all of our main interstate rail corridors.  It doesn't have to be up to "High Speed Rail" standard (350km/h+).

In relation to the Sydney-Canberra corridor, the population of Canberra is large enough to warrant an upgraded faster and more frequent rail service.  This could be achieved by upgrading to a Medium Rail Standard with the elimination of excessive curvature and in the process shortening the route and allowing for higher average speeds.  If a journey time of around 2 and a half hours could be achieved then it would be more than competitive with travel by car and coach.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
After reading back through this thread, I have to admit that I got somewhat side-tracked (shunted) up another path and apologies to those with whom I had some disagreement.

The original news item was about business and development groups calling for a High Speed Rail (HST) link between Sydney and Canberra.  On its own, it's clearly not feasible, with such a small potential patronage and financial return in relation to the cost, as RTT pointed out.  As part of a broader High Speed Rail system between the major capital cities on the eastern seaboard, then that's an entirely different matter. Even then, it would be many decades before this would be feasible, if ever.

Where we diverged from the debate was to suggest a more realistic goal of upgrading the existing track at far less cost to a Medium Speed Rail (MSR) standard, allowing speeds up to 200km/h.  You can use the analogy of the upgrading of the National Highway Network between Melbourne and Brisbane from the slow single lane goat tracks that they were to faster and safer dual carriageway standard, which has almost been completed.  In fact I've just driven from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast and back and the final section to dual carriageway standard between Grafton and Ballina will be completed next year.  Imagine what could be achieved if a similar commitment was made by the State and Federal governments to upgrade all of our main interstate rail corridors.  It doesn't have to be up to "High Speed Rail" standard (350km/h+).

In relation to the Sydney-Canberra corridor, the population of Canberra is large enough to warrant an upgraded faster and more frequent rail service.  This could be achieved by upgrading to a Medium Rail Standard with the elimination of excessive curvature and in the process shortening the route and allowing for higher average speeds.  If a journey time of around 2 and a half hours could be achieved then it would be more than competitive with travel by car and coach.
Transtopic
Vienna to Salzburg fastest train time is around 2.5h for the 295 km journey or 118km/h. If its good enough for the Austrians its good enough for the Australian's.


So before starting such a project you need to deal with the highly complex and political issue of naming. As all great projects need a name, lets call its "Eastern Inter-capital 100", I've just saved many hours of $100,000's of public servant meeting time.

The project scope being that the XPT between Brisbane and Sydney and between Sydney and Melbourne as well as Sydney to Canberra can undertake the journey with an average speed of 100km/h or greater for regular express services. The upgrades will be done over 5 years, knocking off the biggest bang for your buck first and working their way through the various upgrades, realignments and improvements. Realignment is done to 200km/h, but train speed limited by XPT to 160km/h

Was does average 100km/h achieve
- Syd -> Mel, ~8-9h travel time
- Syd -> Can ~3h
- Syd -> Bris ~9-10h

Phase 2 "Eastern Inter-capital 120"
- Syd -> Mel, ~7-8h travel time
- Syd -> Can ~2.5h
- Syd -> Bris ~8-9h


This is achieved with further upgrades, but also new 200km/h rolling stock.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why is there no political will for 200km/h between Mel,Syd,Bris ARTC won't  request it. Albo is  VFT . Morrison is on the money with his ideas if only he sticks to 200km/h.max. But why not Mel,Syd massive upgrade with Junee to Yass deviation. Then the rest will benefit Canberra. I would like to get on the train at Seymour and be in Canberra 6 Hours.. I would vote yes to a  200km/h Mel,Syd.Bris referendum.
C2

The ARTC is not a passenger rail company. It has no interest in trains running at that speed because that would require a much higher standard of track which we know the ARTC is not capable of providing.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Why is there no political will for 200km/h between Mel,Syd,Bris ARTC won't  request it. Albo is  VFT . Morrison is on the money with his ideas if only he sticks to 200km/h.max. But why not Mel,Syd massive upgrade with Junee to Yass deviation. Then the rest will benefit Canberra. I would like to get on the train at Seymour and be in Canberra 6 Hours.. I would vote yes to a  200km/h Mel,Syd.Bris referendum.

The ARTC is not a passenger rail company. It has no interest in trains running at that speed because that would require a much higher standard of track which we know the ARTC is not capable of providing.
simstrain
Of course they are capable. ARTC is a government agency, they will do as they are told.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Why is there no political will for 200km/h between Mel,Syd,Bris ARTC won't  request it. Albo is  VFT . Morrison is on the money with his ideas if only he sticks to 200km/h.max. But why not Mel,Syd massive upgrade with Junee to Yass deviation. Then the rest will benefit Canberra. I would like to get on the train at Seymour and be in Canberra 6 Hours.. I would vote yes to a  200km/h Mel,Syd.Bris referendum.

The ARTC is not a passenger rail company. It has no interest in trains running at that speed because that would require a much higher standard of track which we know the ARTC is not capable of providing.
Of course they are capable. ARTC is a government agency, they will do as they are told.
Lockspike
Exactly.  Railcorp still owns the track infrastructure and ARTC only leases it.  The government will be responsible for paying for the upgrade and any deviations required.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Of course they are capable. ARTC is a government agency, they will do as they are told.
Exactly.  Railcorp still owns the track infrastructure and ARTC only leases it.  The government will be responsible for paying for the upgrade and any deviations required.
Transtopic
And even on the corridors that ARTC owns, ARTC is still a federal government agency which will do what the federal government tells it to do.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Nightfire, RTT_Rules, Transtopic

Display from: