Nillumbik councillor says Diamond Creek sky rail can solve traffic woes

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 May 2020 16:44
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Skyrail would not be the only option here would it?  Why is it considered a flood zone?

Nillumbik councillor says Diamond Creek sky rail can solve traffic woes

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  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Why is it considered a flood zone?
bevans

Just a guess, but I'm assuming that it might be a low lying area that is subject to flooding?

Ross
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Skyrail would not be the only option here would it?  Why is it considered a flood zone?

Nillumbik councillor says Diamond Creek sky rail can solve traffic woes
bevans

It's not a flood zone.

https://www.ses.vic.gov.au/documents/112015/134573/Diamond+Creek+Local+Flood+Guide.pdf/f37a6968-742c-447e-a09f-fc88dc9580ca

I read the article as saying that a trench would interupt the drainage from the eastern side of the line to Diamond Creek, potentially causing flooding. That would depend on the drains provided, but a proper system would probably be expensive given that the line is located on the river flats.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

The cheapest practical option should be chosen.
If a sky rail is built I'm pretty sure Diamond Creek station will also have to be rebuilt.
A road bridge is a cheaper option. There is plenty of room there for a road bridge over the railway.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Isn't it great to be a Councillor?  You can come up with all of these bright ideas, secure in the knowledge that you and your fellow councillors have no say in it, and won't have to do any of the work regardless of any scheme which might go ahead. Some ratepayers might even think what a clever fellow this bloke is; we might even re-elect him.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
The cheapest practical option should be chosen.
If a sky rail is built I'm pretty sure Diamond Creek station will also have to be rebuilt.
A road bridge is a cheaper option. There is plenty of room there for a road bridge over the railway.
tom9876543
A road bridge? Are you serious?

On the Eastern side of the line Fyffe St and Brooks Cres join Main Rd within 5m of the LX.
On the Western side, Station St is within about 15m of the crossing.

Just how do you fit a bridge in that amount of space without killing local road connectivity?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Does the train frequency justify for a rail bridge?
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

It’s a local councillor thought bubble. Diamond Creek has a train every 40 minutes, might go to 20 minutes in the next ten years. Maybe then it might rank and the bottom of someone’s list to remove. Diamond Creek gets around 400 AM boardings, doesn’t justify a brand new elevated station.

The last set of patronage data released 2014/15 has the Clifton Hill Group as the least used on the network. With 65,000 weekday boardings. Compared to 150,000 for the Caulfield Group, which is why only a handful of crossings have been removed on these group of lines.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
Diamond Creek gets a train 40 minutes, yet from my experiences passing through the station it looks like it's enough to cause a decent amount of congestion.

Still, there are higher priorities on the very same line.

Westgarth Street, Victoria Road, Station Street, these all deserve to be removed before the main road in Diamond Creek.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia


Westgarth Street, Victoria Road, Station Street, these all deserve to be removed before the main road in Diamond Creek.
stooge spark

No touching station street.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner



Westgarth Street, Victoria Road, Station Street, these all deserve to be removed before the main road in Diamond Creek.
No touching station street.
bevans
Why???
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
I reckon it's cause there's a high rise right next to the station that will probably need to be demolished before Fairfield Station gets rebuilt.

Well that, or Bevans really likes FIDO.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Diamond Creek gets more frequent services than 40 minutes in peak hours.  According to the timetable, in the AM weekday peak period (which is also the time when road traffic is heaviest) there is an UP service at 6.56, 7.20, 7.42, 8.08 and 8.31.  Down services depart at 6.56, 7.42 and 8.31, having been through the single track LX a few minutes earlier.  So at 7.42, for example, the Down would arrive at and through the LX a few minutes earlier, then the UP would depart through the LX at 7.42.  Same at the other Down times, plus the other Up departures at 7.20 and 8.08.  From the point of view of a motorist on an already congested road, that's a lot of boom gate down time, and delays have a flow-on effect.  

......although much better than in the old VR days, when Diamond Creek had a single platform and a passing loop, and Down trains had to shunt back across the LX to enter the loop.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Diamond Creek gets a train 40 minutes, yet from my experiences passing through the station it looks like it's enough to cause a decent amount of congestion.
stooge spark
In point of fact, Diamond Creek gets a train more often than every 40 minutes, even in off-peak, because trains are going in both directions.  For example, on weekdays there's an Up at 10.14, then a Down at 10.28, then an Up at 10.54, a Down at 11.08, and so on.  All of them obviously using the LX.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

To add some fat to this.

Nilumbilk has just released their draft Diamond Creek Activity Centre Plan which wants to leverage the DOT to build a brand new skyrail station to 'revitalise' Diamond Creek. A lot of the plan rests on this, even though the council acknowledges that it's not on DOT's plans. It is where the councillors comments have come from, word for word. It is disappointing to read the plan and see that most of the revitalisation is dependant on a project that will never happen. If a new station as built we could.... and new station would allow council too... Nilumbilk should be focusing on what they can change to improve the area for the local residents and if a LXR is announced, they can alter their plans then.

There are far more pressing crossings that need to be removed. As well as major transport interchanges that are in desperate need of upgrades before $100 million is spent on a station that is used by less that 500 people per day.

https://s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/hdp.au.prod.app.nil-participate.files/2615/8336/9706/Diamond_Creek_Activity_Centre_Draft_Structure_Plan_-_draft_for_public_consultation.pdf
  EmrldPhoenix Station Master

Location: Melbourne, VIC
All of this talk reminded me of a similar proposal for Croydon station a few years ago.

https://www.maroondah.vic.gov.au/Development/Developing-Maroondah/Planning-for-future-development/Croydon-Activity-Centre/Coolstore-Road-level-crossing-and-Croydon-Station-upgrade

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/outer-east/images-show-sky-rail-proposed-to-replace-coolstore-rd-croydon-level-crossing/news-story/64c2deb2e2fe110bc2c4b2de00076be1

Local councilor provides thought bubble. Bubble is picked up by council. Council drafts proposal. Proposal get media attention. Bugger all happens.

Looking back on this, Croydon has a better justification than Diamond Creek. It serves about 2200 pax daily, compared to 500 pax at Diamond Creek.
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
All of this talk reminded me of a similar proposal for Croydon station a few years ago.

https://www.maroondah.vic.gov.au/Development/Developing-Maroondah/Planning-for-future-development/Croydon-Activity-Centre/Coolstore-Road-level-crossing-and-Croydon-Station-upgrade

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/outer-east/images-show-sky-rail-proposed-to-replace-coolstore-rd-croydon-level-crossing/news-story/64c2deb2e2fe110bc2c4b2de00076be1

Local councilor provides thought bubble. Bubble is picked up by council. Council drafts proposal. Proposal get media attention. Bugger all happens.

Looking back on this, Croydon has a better justification than Diamond Creek. It serves about 2200 pax daily, compared to 500 pax at Diamond Creek.
EmrldPhoenix
That may be true, however I went to a presentation a year or two ago from a senior representative from Darebin Council.  In the presentation the person was discussing how the State Government in 2014 initially made a commitment to remove a single level crossing in the Preston area at Bell Street.

Following that announcement the Council made their own representations to the State Government advocating that they adopt a Sky Rail solution and remove 4 crossings at once rather than just the single crossing at Bell Street.  Sure enough when the extra 25 level crossings were announced in the lead up to the 2018 election, the additional 3 crossings in the Preston area were included.

So whilst nothing may come of it, if the Council's put in the initial work and come up with some feasible (and cost effective) solutions, it makes it easy for politicians to pick it up and run with it.  Who knows whether Croydon or Diamond Creek will be a marginal seat in 2022.

Ross
  EmrldPhoenix Station Master

Location: Melbourne, VIC
So whilst nothing may come of it, if the Council's put in the initial work and come up with some feasible (and cost effective) solutions, it makes it easy for politicians to pick it up and run with it.  Who knows whether Croydon or Diamond Creek will be a marginal seat in 2022.
Rossco T

I absolutely agree with this point. When councils work constructively to determine a popular and cost-effective solution, it makes easy work for the state government to confidently go ahead and use that report as their justification.

While I think the Diamond Creek LX is a bit of a fools dream, it does encourage others to think of solutions for their own LXs in their own local areas. This is kind of conversation gets people invested in a project they ordinarily may not care about.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
That may be true, however I went to a presentation a year or two ago from a senior representative from Darebin Council.  In the presentation the person was discussing how the State Government in 2014 initially made a commitment to remove a single level crossing in the Preston area at Bell Street.
"Rossco T"
I congratulate you on being present when Darebin Council actually did something sensible. Cherish the moment; it doesn't happen often.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
To add some fat to this.

Nilumbilk has just released their draft Diamond Creek Activity Centre Plan which wants to leverage the DOT to build a brand new skyrail station to 'revitalise' Diamond Creek. A lot of the plan rests on this, even though the council acknowledges that it's not on DOT's plans. It is where the councillors comments have come from, word for word. It is disappointing to read the plan and see that most of the revitalisation is dependant on a project that will never happen. If a new station as built we could.... and new station would allow council too... Nilumbilk should be focusing on what they can change to improve the area for the local residents and if a LXR is announced, they can alter their plans then.

There are far more pressing crossings that need to be removed. As well as major transport interchanges that are in desperate need of upgrades before $100 million is spent on a station that is used by less that 500 people per day.

https://s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/hdp.au.prod.app.nil-participate.files/2615/8336/9706/Diamond_Creek_Activity_Centre_Draft_Structure_Plan_-_draft_for_public_consultation.pdf
Lockie91
Yes, but the crossing is used by many more than 500 per day, and they are the ones who are most affected.  Makes little difference to the rail passengers, whatever their number.  A crossing removal, and if necessary a new or rebuilt station, would not be intended primarily to benefit the less than 500 people per day.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
All of this talk reminded me of a similar proposal for Croydon station a few years ago.

https://www.maroondah.vic.gov.au/Development/Developing-Maroondah/Planning-for-future-development/Croydon-Activity-Centre/Coolstore-Road-level-crossing-and-Croydon-Station-upgrade

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/outer-east/images-show-sky-rail-proposed-to-replace-coolstore-rd-croydon-level-crossing/news-story/64c2deb2e2fe110bc2c4b2de00076be1

Local councilor provides thought bubble. Bubble is picked up by council. Council drafts proposal. Proposal get media attention. Bugger all happens.

Looking back on this, Croydon has a better justification than Diamond Creek. It serves about 2200 pax daily, compared to 500 pax at Diamond Creek.
EmrldPhoenix
The number of pax is not really the issue.  Rather, it's the number of vehicles using the crossing, and the delays they experience.  The Diamond Creek road is far busier than Croydon, and is compounded by the single track.  At Croydon, Up and Down trains can use the crossing at the same time if necessary;  at Diamond Creek they arrive at about the same time but must alternate, so that the crossing is closed for longer.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

That may be true, however I went to a presentation a year or two ago from a senior representative from Darebin Council.  In the presentation the person was discussing how the State Government in 2014 initially made a commitment to remove a single level crossing in the Preston area at Bell Street.

Following that announcement the Council made their own representations to the State Government advocating that they adopt a Sky Rail solution and remove 4 crossings at once rather than just the single crossing at Bell Street.  Sure enough when the extra 25 level crossings were announced in the lead up to the 2018 election, the additional 3 crossings in the Preston area were included.

So whilst nothing may come of it, if the Council's put in the initial work and come up with some feasible (and cost effective) solutions, it makes it easy for politicians to pick it up and run with it.  Who knows whether Croydon or Diamond Creek will be a marginal seat in 2022.

Ross
The proposal then was for lowering under Bell St, Oakover, Murray and Cramer. Except for Bell to Bruce, there is land available but a lot of resumptions are needed between Bell and Bruce whether you go up or down. Bell and Preston get new stations, there is more parking space at the soccer ground and the stations. Bruce Street is reconnected.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Then the descend from Regent St. will be very steep, and vica verca on the down.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

A road bridge? Are you serious?

On the Eastern side of the line Fyffe St and Brooks Cres join Main Rd within 5m of the LX.
On the Western side, Station St is within about 15m of the crossing.

Just how do you fit a bridge in that amount of space without killing local road connectivity?
LeroyW

Leroy it seems your planning skills aren't too great.

West Side - Station St
On Google maps I measured 60 metres from Station St to railway reserve.
At 1/12 the road will be most likely be close to street level at Station St.
If Station St has to rise around 1 metre, that's not difficult.
So looks like you are wrong there.

East Side - Fyffe St / Brooks Cres
Any vehicle driving to Fyffe St / Brooks Cres can get there via Wensley St. Journey time extended by 3 minutes.... they will survive.
I would actually extend Fyffe St north under the new road bridge (next to railway) and connect it to the car park, providing another option.
The removal of the current dogs breakfast intersection is not a problem.
  Upven Locomotive Driver

Skyrail would not be the only option here would it?  Why is it considered a flood zone?

Nillumbik councillor says Diamond Creek sky rail can solve traffic woes

It's not a flood zone.

https://www.ses.vic.gov.au/documents/112015/134573/Diamond+Creek+Local+Flood+Guide.pdf/f37a6968-742c-447e-a09f-fc88dc9580ca

I read the article as saying that a trench would interupt the drainage from the eastern side of the line to Diamond Creek, potentially causing flooding. That would depend on the drains provided, but a proper system would probably be expensive given that the line is located on the river flats.
historian
At present it is not subject to the "land subject to inundation overlay", but I surmise that any change in the topography would affect its rating.

https://production-planning-report-pdf.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/Lot-3-PS422578-Vicplan-Planning-Property-Report.pdf

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