Future of Overland train service in doubt

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 25 Nov 2019 19:16
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Are you going to use said train any time in the next three years? Just asking.
don_dunstan
I wouldn't be able to answer that question until I had details of fares and timetables.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud

However shortcut via Ballarat and terminate at Adelaide Railway Station in themselves make a much more attractive service.
This is not part of the plan. What's being paid for is the same service that saw numbers collapse from 100,000 a year to 17,000 a year over a decade.

Anyway, thanks again for your very generous funding.
GOOD ONE DON
Selective quote to impart the complete opposite meaning of what I said, but you missed deleting the qualifier "however"
PATHETIC
cheers
Mister Fact Checker
justarider
Again, this style of service is not what is being funded by the Victorian government. What is being funded is the exact same service that has seen users abandon it in droves over the last ten years. So the Victorian government is backing a service that has no hope whatsoever of turning around its disastrous decline.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker

However shortcut via Ballarat and terminate at Adelaide Railway Station in themselves make a much more attractive service.
This is not part of the plan. What's being paid for is the same service that saw numbers collapse from 100,000 a year to 17,000 a year over a decade.

Anyway, thanks again for your very generous funding.
GOOD ONE DON
Selective quote to impart the complete opposite meaning of what I said, but you missed deleting the qualifier "however"
PATHETIC
cheers
Mister Fact Checker
justarider
Again, this style of service is not what is being funded by the Victorian government. What is being funded is the exact same service that has seen users abandon it in droves over the last ten years. So the Victorian government is backing a service that has no hope whatsoever of turning around its disastrous decline.
"don_dunstan"

AGAIN you misrepresent my views
"Yeah foam !! $100M not gunna touch that"
what part of that suggests I support an alternate technology.

kind regards
Mister Fact Checker
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Vic Gov should pay for a daily train from SXS to Servicetown. VLine fares.

Let the train go to SA once per week and charge $500 per person who goes over the border.

Then we'll see how quickly the SA gov changes their tune.
John.Z
The SA Govt has shown how much stock they place on Victoria by shutting the border till heaven knows when. They will not change their tune and neither they should.

$500.00 fare, sounds like a plan.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Ok if everyone's not over dosed with everything to do with the Overland here's a bit more...

State government open to funding more frequent Overland service.

Victoria's new public transport minister has left the door open to supporting more frequent Overland services.

https://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/6813087/state-government-open-to-funding-more-frequent-overland-service/


I suppose they aren't going to say no to this but another case of wait and see what develops.

https://www.facebook.com/PMalinauskasMP/photos/a.432810920138562/3042188109200817/?type=3&theater

Some supportive comments from Peter, although it's relatively easy to blow your trumpet and beat your chest while in opposition.

Links from The Stroker Standard..Wink and Peter's facebook site.

BigShunter.
  NSWGR8022 Assistant Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
New transport minister leaves door open for an uplift is overland frequency https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/state-government-open-to-funding-more-frequent-overland-service in the mind of many on here.

How many services each way is the right number?  Was the service a daily service each way in recent times?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud

However shortcut via Ballarat and terminate at Adelaide Railway Station in themselves make a much more attractive service.
This is not part of the plan. What's being paid for is the same service that saw numbers collapse from 100,000 a year to 17,000 a year over a decade.

Anyway, thanks again for your very generous funding.
GOOD ONE DON
Selective quote to impart the complete opposite meaning of what I said, but you missed deleting the qualifier "however"
PATHETIC
cheers
Mister Fact CheckerAgain, this style of service is not what is being funded by the Victorian government. What is being funded is the exact same service that has seen users abandon it in droves over the last ten years. So the Victorian government is backing a service that has no hope whatsoever of turning around its disastrous decline.

AGAIN you misrepresent my views
"Yeah foam !! $100M not gunna touch that"
what part of that suggests I support an alternate technology.

kind regards
Mister Fact Checker
justarider
You're even more emotional than Vinelander. You said at the start "short-cut via Ballarat and terminate at Adelaide Railway Station" to which I replied "that's not what is being funded". It was a pretty simple response that you arced up to for some reason.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Ok if everyone's not over dosed with everything to do with the Overland here's a bit more...

State government open to funding more frequent Overland service.

Victoria's new public transport minister has left the door open to supporting more frequent Overland services.

https://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/6813087/state-government-open-to-funding-more-frequent-overland-service/


...

BigShunter.
BigShunter
New transport minister leaves door open for an uplift is overland frequency https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/state-government-open-to-funding-more-frequent-overland-service in the mind of many on here. How many services each way is the right number? Was the service a daily service each way in recent times?
NSWGR8022
The figures for people catching it en route were pretty dismal as discussed. Also if they're going to continue getting Journey Beyond to run the service you've also got problems with availability of rolling stock because they only bothered refurbishing a set number of cars when the service was 'revitalised' some ten years ago.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Vic Gov should pay for a daily train from SXS to Servicetown. VLine fares.

Let the train go to SA once per week and charge $500 per person who goes over the border.

Then we'll see how quickly the SA gov changes their tune.
The SA Govt has shown how much stock they place on Victoria by shutting the border till heaven knows when. They will not change their tune and neither they should.

$500.00 fare, sounds like a plan.
steam4ian
I don't know why they're continuing to muck around with Journey Beyond and a service to Adelaide - it's going to be a long time before they're able to put the train back on anyway so why not just announce a daily return to (Horsham, Dimboola, Nhill - take your pick) once they have enough standard gauge Vlocity trains to do it?
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker

AGAIN you misrepresent my views
"Yeah foam !! $100M not gunna touch that"
what part of that suggests I support an alternate technology.

kind regards
Mister Fact Checker
justarider
You're even more emotional than Vinelander. You said at the start "short-cut via Ballarat and terminate at Adelaide Railway Station" to which I replied "that's not what is being funded". It was a pretty simple response that you arced up to for some reason.
"don_dunstan"

Tiresome Don.

"You said at the start.... "

NO, that is NOT what  I said at the start. Try reading the original post for once, instead of  replying to your own echo.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The operation fundings, be it for Journey Beyond or V/Line, barely cover the operations cost if that.  The investment on new rollingstock will never be recovered from fare.  Perhaps just the bank interest on the cost of additional Vlocities alone will be higher than the subsidy for Journey Beyond.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The operation fundings, be it for Journey Beyond or V/Line, barely cover the operations cost if that.  The investment on new rollingstock will never be recovered from fare.  Perhaps just the bank interest on the cost of additional Vlocities alone will be higher than the subsidy for Journey Beyond.
route14

Should it?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The operation fundings, be it for Journey Beyond or V/Line, barely cover the operations cost if that.  The investment on new rollingstock will never be recovered from fare.  Perhaps just the bank interest on the cost of additional Vlocities alone will be higher than the subsidy for Journey Beyond.
route14

Public transport doesn't operate for a profit and in progressive Victoria it operates because it economically enables and facilitates mobility for the general public who choose not to or cannot afford to operate their own vehicle.

Mike.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I'm not against Vlocities running the service, but economic considerations are inevitable.  If Journey Beyond can do the job at a reasonable demand for subsidy it makes sense for the Victorian government to contract the service to them.  It's not just about buying two less train sets, but the fuel, fleet maintenance and crew's salaries are all then subcontracted.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
V/line run a lot more than JB will ever do and they that should be something taken into consideration.

Forget vlocitites they are junk.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Forget vlocitites they are junk.
freightgate

Really...

Can you suggest an alternative that will seamlessly integrate with Bombardier Question

Mike.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm not against Vlocities running the service, but economic considerations are inevitable.  If Journey Beyond can do the job at a reasonable demand for subsidy it makes sense for the Victorian government to contract the service to them.  It's not just about buying two less train sets, but the fuel, fleet maintenance and crew's salaries are all then subcontracted.
route14
It's the timetable that's the problem - just under five hours to get from Horsham to Melbourne, unless your destination is Geelong it's unacceptable.

Given the collapse in numbers from 100,000 p/a in the late 2000's to just 17,000 p/a now you'd have to think the most urgent task would be to turn the service around so its more attractive for the pubic to use. There hasn't been any such announcement - all that's being funded is the existing structure that could easily be replaced by two buses.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Forget vlocitites they are junk.
freightgate
BullDust  !! They are a fast, comfortable and reliable unit. VLocity by the way.

BigShunter.
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

Don, I would have thought just under five hours Horsham to Melbourne is acceptable, I think it’s about a 400 km trip . If you were driving a car and stopped for a bite to eat and a toilet break ( which are available on the train) just under five hours is on par . If you had a few kids in the car I reckon it would take longer than five hours in a car
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It's not just about buying two less train sets, but the fuel, fleet maintenance and crew's salaries are all then subcontracted.
route14
Do you think that Journey Beyond will not include rather generous estimates for these expenses in their pricing for the contract, to ensure they can still make a profit on the whole exercise even if costs go up?


Forget vlocitites they are junk.
Really...

Can you suggest an alternative that will seamlessly integrate with Bombardier Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
There aren't any Bombardier sets operating on the service which would need additional sets to be compatible.

Best way forward would be to stop buying broad gauge Vlocities at the end of the current order, wait until later this year when the future of Alstom and Bombardier is clearer (Alstom's proposed purchase of Bombardier Transportation still needs approval from anti-competition authorities and Alstom shareholders) and then open a competitive tender for the next generation of VLine multiple units. Requirements should include modular powertrain allowing for future conversion to electric or bi-mode propulsion, modular interiors allowing for conversion between commuter or long distance configurations, minimum Australian content of the interior fitout.

Don, I would have thought just under five hours Horsham to Melbourne is acceptable, I think it’s about a 400 km trip.
Richard stroker
300km

3:26 estimated time, perhaps 3:45 allowing for a break if you have very young children who are not yet toilet trained or old codgers who have lost said ability.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker
Don, I would have thought just under five hours Horsham to Melbourne is acceptable, I think it’s about a 400 km trip . If you were driving a car and stopped for a bite to eat and a toilet break ( which are available on the train) just under five hours is on par . If you had a few kids in the car I reckon it would take longer than five hours in a car
"Richard stroker"

you need to remember @Dick and @jap that when @don says "just under", he means half an hour.

Horsham - SCS
Car 3:30  + loo break say     3:45
Bus to Ararat, Vlo to SCS     4:18
The Overland (incl arvo tea) 4:33

"Unacceptable" is depending on what suits best. The killer for Overland is only 2 per week.
Car is aways gunna win if that's your thing. For PT, the Overland is highly competitive.

cheers
John
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Don, I would have thought just under five hours Horsham to Melbourne is acceptable, I think it’s about a 400 km trip . If you were driving a car and stopped for a bite to eat and a toilet break ( which are available on the train) just under five hours is on par . If you had a few kids in the car I reckon it would take longer than five hours in a car

you need to remember @Dick and @jap that when @don says "just under", he means half an hour.

Horsham - SCS
Car 3:30  + loo break say     3:45
Bus to Ararat, Vlo to SCS     4:18
The Overland (incl arvo tea) 4:33

"Unacceptable" is depending on what suits best. The killer for Overland is only 2 per week.
Car is aways gunna win if that's your thing. For PT, the Overland is highly competitive.

cheers
John
justarider
You need to arrive half an hour early for the Overland as it is allowed to run ahead of time at intermediate stops. Tighter pathing closer to Melbourne means that this rarely translates into early arrivals, so the time is actually 5:03.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud

Forget vlocitites they are junk.
Really...

Can you suggest an alternative that will seamlessly integrate with Bombardier Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
Technically Bombardier doesn't exist any more.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner


Forget vlocitites they are junk.
Really...

Can you suggest an alternative that will seamlessly integrate with Bombardier Question

Mike.Technically Bombardier doesn't exist any more.
don_dunstan
You're getting a bit ahead of things.

The purchase of Bombardier Transportation has not yet received approval from the European Union or by Alstom shareholders. Considering that COVID-19 has happened since the heads of agreement back in February, I wouldn't blame Alstom shareholders for taking a bit of time to think over the wisdom of picking up another major transport asset.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, I would have thought just under five hours Horsham to Melbourne is acceptable, I think it’s about a 400 km trip . If you were driving a car and stopped for a bite to eat and a toilet break ( which are available on the train) just under five hours is on par . If you had a few kids in the car I reckon it would take longer than five hours in a car
Richard stroker
But then you have the convenience of your car when you get there; and I think you'll find that most Horsham people would do that trip in just over three hours, not five. Even with a stop to get petrol and stretch your legs its actually a very easy drive thanks to the dual carriage-way most of the way from Ararat.
you need to remember @Dick and @jap that when @don says "just under", he means half an hour. Horsham - SCS
justarider
Wow, four hours and thirty-five minutes - such a huge difference from "just under five". And as justapassenger says if it misses its path it can easily run late - they don't call it the Overdue for nothing.

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