Future of Overland train service in doubt

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 25 Nov 2019 19:16
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale Wharf
Why is the Victoria paying for The Overland train between Melbourne and Adelaide for three years (providing $3.8 million per year over the next three years for the train service.)

Where Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) has pulled out funding for the service in 2018?

Why can't Mr Andrews tell the GSR ( Great Southern Railways) only run the service from Melbourne to Serviceton(near Victoria / SA border) till Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) agrees to put the money back into the service?

Victoria tax money should not be used to fund a service for South Australian(s).
Youz just don't get it.

$3.8M is a drop in the bucket of the full operating cost  of the train. Journey Beyond ( not GSR) would just laugh at your suggestion.

Victorian tax money is not for the benefit of South Aussies.
It's to suck tourist dollars eastwards. During the footy finals, the $3.8M will be made back easy.
Journey Beyond are in the tourist business, they will do and take whatever it takes to turn a dollar.
Cheap fares for Western Vics (aka voters) , and good PR in general, is a bonus.

The inabilty of SA premier to grap the benefit if tourist dollars in his direction is baffling, but Vic govt hasn't let that deter decisions for Vic benefit.

cheers
John
justarider
.
Who could have forecast the economic down turn that has beset the Australian tourism landscape when the Covid 19 virus was dropped upon us. Domestic Air travel is down about 90 % ,international travel down 98% ,so when the Covid19 settles down ,the Overland will be running. Maybe the Victorian Government was short sighted in providing assistance or maybe they will be proved correct in providing $3.8 million to Journey Beyond but government provides money to many schemes to keep the state moving. Does the Overland run through marginal seats, it could have been election motivated to prop up the train. Granted yes there is alternate transport, bus, plane, and car but a large portion (don’t known what %) are pensioners that get a travel voucher that gives them a free rail trip once a year. The service is there for the people who can’t drive or just prefer rail travel. The other market are railfans. I caught the Overland last year and in the carriage were 3 other railfans .The Overland is marketed overseas by Journey Beyond and a large overseas tourist dollar rides the Overland but more importantly cashed up from overseas ride the Ghan and the Indian Pacific trains. So that poses the question “Will  Journey Beyond cry poor and ask the South Australia Government for assistant to keep The Ghan and the    Indian Pacific seeing that the trains have stopped running.They will need assistance to get back on their wheels again  till they become viable. The South Australia Government may have too help???

Maybe $3.8M from the Vic Gov was is a drop in the bucket for the Overland compared to these other two trains. They may cost a little bit more.

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
SA gets it, not sure you do Justarider.

There be exactly zero footy finals held in Melbourne this year, and the tourist dollars flowing east are non existent because presently exactly zero people want to go that way. Sadly, there still seems a desire for Victoria’s stupid premier to allow the virus to flow west and north though.

SA does acknowledge some tourist dollars coming from the east on the overland, except we now get those dollars gratis, because SA’s government isn’t dumb enough to pay for them.
I don't understand the decision to keep throwing money at this dinosaur - the only angle that makes sense is the announcement of a new and improved service further down the track and the desire to demonstrate some kind of continuity. But its very unlikely we'll see any train at all before the end of the year given that nobody is allowed over the border at present, not even South Australians trying to return home.

Additional comments from Mr HP who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in any aspect of the Overland Question

M.
The Vinelander
Where did I say that I wasn't interested in any aspect of the Overland?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Why is the Victoria paying for The Overland train between Melbourne and Adelaide for three years (providing $3.8 million per year over the next three years for the train service.)

Where Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) has pulled out funding for the service in 2018?

Why can't Mr Andrews tell the GSR ( Great Southern Railways) only run the service from Melbourne to Serviceton(near Victoria / SA border) till Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) agrees to put the money back into the service?

Victoria tax money should not be used to fund a service for South Australian(s).
Youz just don't get it.

$3.8M is a drop in the bucket of the full operating cost  of the train. Journey Beyond ( not GSR) would just laugh at your suggestion.

Victorian tax money is not for the benefit of South Aussies.
It's to suck tourist dollars eastwards. During the footy finals, the $3.8M will be made back easy.
Journey Beyond are in the tourist business, they will do and take whatever it takes to turn a dollar.
Cheap fares for Western Vics (aka voters) , and good PR in general, is a bonus.

The inabilty of SA premier to grap the benefit if tourist dollars in his direction is baffling, but Vic govt hasn't let that deter decisions for Vic benefit.

cheers
John
.
Who could have forecast the economic down turn that has beset the Australian tourism landscape when the Covid 19 virus was dropped upon us. Domestic Air travel is down about 90 % ,international travel down 98% ,so when the Covid19 settles down ,the Overland will be running. Maybe the Victorian Government was short sighted in providing assistance or maybe they will be proved correct in providing $3.8 million to Journey Beyond but government provides money to many schemes to keep the state moving. Does the Overland run through marginal seats, it could have been election motivated to prop up the train. Granted yes there is alternate transport, bus, plane, and car but a large portion (don’t known what %) are pensioners that get a travel voucher that gives them a free rail trip once a year. The service is there for the people who can’t drive or just prefer rail travel. The other market are railfans. I caught the Overland last year and in the carriage were 3 other railfans .The Overland is marketed overseas by Journey Beyond and a large overseas tourist dollar rides the Overland but more importantly cashed up from overseas ride the Ghan and the Indian Pacific trains. So that poses the question “Will  Journey Beyond cry poor and ask the South Australia Government for assistant to keep The Ghan and the    Indian Pacific seeing that the trains have stopped running.They will need assistance to get back on their wheels again  till they become viable. The South Australia Government may have too help???

Maybe $3.8M from the Vic Gov was is a drop in the bucket for the Overland compared to these other two trains. They may cost a little bit more.
david harvey
David, the South Australian government doesn't subsidise any of Journey Beyond's rail services at all any more - its entirely a private enterprise for-profit venture run by the company without any government assistance.

And as far as I'm aware there's no Commonwealth government involvement (ie concession fares) in either the Ghan or the Indian Pacific any longer since the "sitting up" economy services were axed some years ago - those trains a purely a 'rail cruise' type thing now and they don't cater to any other kind of market.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale Wharf
Why is the Victoria paying for The Overland train between Melbourne and Adelaide for three years (providing $3.8 million per year over the next three years for the train service.)

Where Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) has pulled out funding for the service in 2018?

Why can't Mr Andrews tell the GSR ( Great Southern Railways) only run the service from Melbourne to Serviceton(near Victoria / SA border) till Steven Marshall(Premier of South Australia) agrees to put the money back into the service?

Victoria tax money should not be used to fund a service for South Australian(s).
Youz just don't get it.

$3.8M is a drop in the bucket of the full operating cost  of the train. Journey Beyond ( not GSR) would just laugh at your suggestion.

Victorian tax money is not for the benefit of South Aussies.
It's to suck tourist dollars eastwards. During the footy finals, the $3.8M will be made back easy.
Journey Beyond are in the tourist business, they will do and take whatever it takes to turn a dollar.
Cheap fares for Western Vics (aka voters) , and good PR in general, is a bonus.

The inabilty of SA premier to grap the benefit if tourist dollars in his direction is baffling, but Vic govt hasn't let that deter decisions for Vic benefit.

cheers
John
.
Who could have forecast the economic down turn that has beset the Australian tourism landscape when the Covid 19 virus was dropped upon us. Domestic Air travel is down about 90 % ,international travel down 98% ,so when the Covid19 settles down ,the Overland will be running. Maybe the Victorian Government was short sighted in providing assistance or maybe they will be proved correct in providing $3.8 million to Journey Beyond but government provides money to many schemes to keep the state moving. Does the Overland run through marginal seats, it could have been election motivated to prop up the train. Granted yes there is alternate transport, bus, plane, and car but a large portion (don’t known what %) are pensioners that get a travel voucher that gives them a free rail trip once a year. The service is there for the people who can’t drive or just prefer rail travel. The other market are railfans. I caught the Overland last year and in the carriage were 3 other railfans .The Overland is marketed overseas by Journey Beyond and a large overseas tourist dollar rides the Overland but more importantly cashed up from overseas ride the Ghan and the Indian Pacific trains. So that poses the question “Will  Journey Beyond cry poor and ask the South Australia Government for assistant to keep The Ghan and the    Indian Pacific seeing that the trains have stopped running.They will need assistance to get back on their wheels again  till they become viable. The South Australia Government may have too help???

Maybe $3.8M from the Vic Gov was is a drop in the bucket for the Overland compared to these other two trains. They may cost a little bit more.
David, the South Australian government doesn't subsidise any of Journey Beyond's rail services at all any more - its entirely a private enterprise for-profit venture run by the company without any government assistance.

And as far as I'm aware there's no Commonwealth government involvement (ie concession fares) in either the Ghan or the Indian Pacific any longer since the "sitting up" economy services were axed some years ago - those trains a purely a 'rail cruise' type thing now and they don't cater to any other kind of market.
don_dunstan
Thank you Don. I am not trying to get a bit out of you ,I will leave that to your fan club.       I am quite aware that the South Australian government doesn't subsidise any of Journey Beyond's rail services and it is an entirely a private enterprise for-profit venture run by the company without any government assistance,, but the presidents( i think that is spelt wrong) has been set by the Victorian Government and it handed Journey Beyond's the cash to keep going , I was just posing the senrio  ,Would the South Australian Government bail out The Ghan if it were asked.???  On the Question of CSO  Community Service Obligations , that"s what the railways used to be when their charter was to provide a service to all , you know that I'm suren as  you stated that," as far as I'm aware there's no Commonwealth government involvement (ie concession fares) in either the Ghan or the Indian Pacific any longer since the "sitting up" economy services were axed some years ago - those trains a purely a 'rail cruise' type thing now and they don't cater to any other kind of market".I think you are correct but in Victoria I was refering to the free pensioner rail voucher that pensioner receiver yearly . These can be used on the Overland to give the pensioner free travel on the Victorian portion of their journey only . Pensioners then  pay for the Journey Beyond South Australian section.  Thats the only freebee one can achieve  on their  Journey Beyond.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I am quite aware that the South Australian government doesn't subsidise any of Journey Beyond's rail services and it is an entirely a private enterprise for-profit venture run by the company without any government assistance,, but the presidents( i think that is spelt wrong) has been set by the Victorian Government and it handed Journey Beyond's the cash to keep going , I was just posing the senrio  ,Would the South Australian Government bail out The Ghan if it were asked.???
David Harvey
Hello again David, I think the word you are looking for is 'precedence' and no I don't believe they'd have any interest in 'saving' any of those services at all. Just because the VIC government have chosen to throw money at the existing service for the last couple of years doesn't mean the SA government will follow suit, particularly not for those Journey Beyond services which are primarily focused on tourism (not public transport).

And they've already made their position on the existing Overland known - they don't think it's worth putting money into given the very low numbers. Premier Steve Marshall made it pretty clear when they cut the money off a few years ago, not enough South Australians were using it despite the money put into it over the years - end-of-story.
Thank you Don. I am not trying to get a bit out of you ,I will leave that to your fan club.
David Harvey
Ahh, yes - my extensive fan club of people on this board who don't like the fact that myself and a few other people (Aaron, ANR, Donald among others) speak the truth on a number of topics. They're just intimidated by the fact that none of their insults or facile back-handers faze me whatsoever.

Cry-babies. They should just accept that I'm right all the time like Valvegear eventually did...Wink
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Cry-babies. They should just accept that I'm right all the time like Valvegear eventually did
"don_dunstan"
Or, more accurately, ignore you when you're wrong.Very Happy
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Cry-babies. They should just accept that I'm right all the time like Valvegear eventually did
Or, more accurately, ignore you when you're wrong.Very Happy
Valvegear
Which is rather often, the better half found this whilst gobsmacked at an anti vaxxer on face book. Illustrates the point

https://chrysstevenson.com/2020/07/04/ultracrepidarianism-a-load-of-old-cobblers/
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Cry-babies. They should just accept that I'm right all the time like Valvegear eventually did
Or, more accurately, ignore you when you're wrong.Very Happy
Which is rather often, the better half found this whilst gobsmacked at an anti vaxxer on face book. Illustrates the point

https://chrysstevenson.com/2020/07/04/ultracrepidarianism-a-load-of-old-cobblers/
wobert
What's the matter, still butt-hurt that your zinger fell flat? Never mind, maybe one day you'll be funny...
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Na:lol:LaughingLaughing
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Laughing because all the insults being thrown around isn't doing anything for the title of the thread. My personal opinion is that it should be shut down in it's current guise because as someone mentioned earlier it was meant to provide a service for all but in 2020 it no longer achieves this.

The only way is for new rolling stock that can change gauge and for Vline to take over the running instead of journey beyond.
  mflucas2 Station Staff

Location: Melbourne
I'd heard some rumours we were going to see a V/Line standard gauge VLocity with a cross platform change in Ararat doing 2x Adelaide weekly and 7x Horsham or Nhill weekly - I wonder if that's still on the cards?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

With the decision to extend the funding for the Overland the plan you mentioned is more likely postponed, otherwise there is no point funding the former.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
This thread is similar to the Melbourne Airport Railway one - both closing in on 50 pages, and nobody any the wiser.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Righto you mob, pay attention, the MikeLander Express has been given a bit of print today, was wondering about The Overland and here she is ...........Razz

https://www.facebook.com/savetheoverland/

The pulse just won't stop !

BigShunter.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Righto you mob, pay attention, the MikeLander Express has been given a bit of print today, was wondering about The Overland and here she is ...........Razz

https://www.facebook.com/savetheoverland/

The pulse just won't stop !

BigShunter.
BigShunter
This is at least the third time the Overland reintroduction has been delayed, it was already supposed to be back by now... twice over.

I wonder if Journey Beyond have been billing the VIC government for services that they didn't bother to run? Dan's government probably paid the invoices without even bothering to check knowing their proclivity for throwing money down the drain without caring where it goes.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

About 100 days
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Looks like don is full of optimism about the reintroduction......

Just reading the info this arvo and wondering what the new 3 year agreement is all about ?

THE OVERLAND TAKES TO THE TRACKS AGAIN

The much-loved Overland train has a new lease on life and will once again be making its way between Adelaide and Melbourne with a new three-year agreement extending the service.

Journey Beyond Rail Expeditions (JBRE) along with support from the Victorian Government have contributed funds to continue to operate the service.

The Overland has been bringing people between Adelaide and Melbourne and the regional towns in between for more than 130 years. It’s a significant part of Australia’s rail history and will now continue to play a part in the future of Australian rail and Journey Beyond Rail Expeditions.

We hope to be able to continue operating two services a week in each direction from 03 January 2021, with online bookings available soon.


I have emailed Journey Beyond to see when bookings are able to be made, reckon I will go for a cruise to Nhill !

BigShunter.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Looks like don is full of optimism about the reintroduction......

Just reading the info this arvo and wondering what the new 3 year agreement is all about ?

THE OVERLAND TAKES TO THE TRACKS AGAIN

The much-loved Overland train has a new lease on life and will once again be making its way between Adelaide and Melbourne with a new three-year agreement extending the service.

Journey Beyond Rail Expeditions (JBRE) along with support from the Victorian Government have contributed funds to continue to operate the service.

The Overland has been bringing people between Adelaide and Melbourne and the regional towns in between for more than 130 years. It’s a significant part of Australia’s rail history and will now continue to play a part in the future of Australian rail and Journey Beyond Rail Expeditions.

We hope to be able to continue operating two services a week in each direction from 03 January 2021, with online bookings available soon.


I have emailed Journey Beyond to see when bookings are able to be made, reckon I will go for a cruise to Nhill !

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Don does have a point though. The Overland is much more of a political football than a sustainable service.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
The much-loved Overland train has a new lease on life and will once again be making its way between Adelaide and Melbourne with a new three-year agreement extending the service.
Don does have a point though.

The Overland is much more of a political football than a sustainable service.
railblogger
I wasn't disagreeing or agreeing with don, it was only a statement.

I was however asking a question about the arrangements' for the continuation for another 3 years of an unsustainable service..Wink

As well, not disagreeing with your statement, it certainly is a political football, which makes it more interesting, that it was deemed important enough to warrant an extension of 3 years.

BigShunter.

still going for a hoot to Nhill, though !
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Pinball museum at Nhill
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
...

still going for a hoot to Nhill, though !
BigShunter
Hardly unable to contain my excitement on your behalf... must say though a relatively booming town by Wimmera standards.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
...

still going for a hoot to Nhill, though !
Hardly unable to contain my excitement on your behalf... must say though a relatively booming town by Wimmera standards.
don_dunstan
Nah it's trucked, more life at Netherby. Yesterday 25 people in the pub at Netherby in the arvo, wouldn't have been 25 people in both pubs in Nhill all day
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
still going for a hoot to Nhill, though !
Hardly unable to contain my excitement on your behalf... must say though a relatively booming town by Wimmera standards.
don_dunstan
Some grammatical problems there don.......... I'm unable to contain or I'm hardly able to contain, who's incharge of the grammar around here.

Firstly don, if you've been paying attention and I know you do, the daughter & grand kids live there, so I will go and hype them up into a fever pitched frenzy. The art gallery with some great paintings of the region as well as some farm junk art, well worth a look, annually. Also a relatively new cafe/take away dining joint has opened and doing quite well.

https://www.facebook.com/mrle.com.au/

As far as Nhill doing well, wobert may have stifled your statement a bit, I'd settle for floundering along.
Dimboola seems to be a bit of a happening spot, a trendy eatery here and there more hipstir style from what Im being told.
Rupanyup going well probably Still surfing on the back of the Silo Art Trail people, new people from Melbourne running the pub, they had to return to their Melbourne address for the lockdown, so the locals manned up and ran the pub for em, a new community owned/run supermarket being built shortly.

But as for the Overland service, yeah it's a half arsed not much use in real terms but gives the G'vot the license to say we are providing a service to Western Victorians, could it be better managed and run, Hell Yeah.

It is probably in the same basket as the regional freight lines, not far off F'ed but still operating. People still seem to use the Overland, subsidised or otherwise, some because it's barely costing them a cent, some just choose to travel that way.

Anyway seems it may trundle along for awhile yet. Is that enough for a Sundee woffle ?

BigShunter.

doyle
Pinball museum at Nhill....Shocked you can't be serious.. much prefer a picnic at the local sewerage farm on a 35deg day..Razz
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Love pinball I know it's not for everyone but you can't beat
Bride of pinbot
Fire power
And my favourite
Black hole

You can keep your sewage farm anything over 26° is a heat wave
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
still going for a hoot to Nhill, though !
Hardly unable to contain my excitement on your behalf... must say though a relatively booming town by Wimmera standards.
Some grammatical problems there don.......... I'm unable to contain or I'm hardly able to contain, who's incharge of the grammar around here.
BigShunter
Yeah you're right - should have been "hardly able to".
Firstly don, if you've been paying attention and I know you do, the daughter & grand kids live there, so I will go and hype them up into a fever pitched frenzy. The art gallery with some great paintings of the region as well as some farm junk art, well worth a look, annually. Also a relatively new cafe/take away dining joint has opened and doing quite well. https://www.facebook.com/mrle.com.au/ As far as Nhill doing well, wobert may have stifled your statement a bit, I'd settle for floundering along. Dimboola seems to be a bit of a happening spot, a trendy eatery here and there more hipstir style from what Im being told. Rupanyup going well probably Still surfing on the back of the Silo Art Trail people, new people from Melbourne running the pub, they had to return to their Melbourne address for the lockdown, so the locals manned up and ran the pub for em, a new community owned/run supermarket being built shortly. But as for the Overland service, yeah it's a half arsed not much use in real terms but gives the G'vot the license to say we are providing a service to Western Victorians, could it be better managed and run, Hell Yeah. It is probably in the same basket as the regional freight lines, not far off F'ed but still operating. People still seem to use the Overland, subsidised or otherwise, some because it's barely costing them a cent, some just choose to travel that way. Anyway seems it may trundle along for awhile yet. Is that enough for a Sundee woffle ? BigShunter. doyle Pinball museum at Nhill....Shocked you can't be serious.. much prefer a picnic at the local sewerage farm on a 35deg day..Razz
BigShunter
Rupanyup had some kind of a serial arsonist operating there for some years and they never caught him (almost all arsonists are men). There's one presently operating in Nangwarry SA at the moment too - what is it about small towns and these bloody arsonists!

I'm glad to hear you love the Wimmera, have family connections and still visit - I did remember that you still had family there. I haven't had a connection to the district in over ten years now so I don't bother any more. The last time I passed through on the bus Horsham looked positively dreadful - the top end of Firebrace Street was mostly empty shops and even old stalwarts like Frejah's outfitters and Wards Jewelers had gone - although I'm told its partly because the business focus of the town has moved further west and south with the redevelopment of the stockyards into a Harvey Norman and Aldi.

Not sure what the solution is for that district but they badly need more industry outside of agriculture and tourism.

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