The Aussie politics thread -

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And with what's going on in this Royal Commission into aged care (Fed responsibility) all things are pointing to the liar from the shire.In January he banged on about protecting the elderly and we'll do this, this and this  and all that. And when NSW  had a large number of deaths in aged care and big problems in April, Sooty and the LNP ran for cover and deflected and dumped everything on Gladys. In the 3 months since they've done absolutely nothing in preparations or learning anything from the previous experience and are now dumping what's happening in the aged care homes  in Vic all on Dan Andrews.

John Hewson came out and said, quarantine is ultimately the Feds job, Morrison just wanted home isolation (that would have gone well)so the States set it up for them. And they said nothing about the setup Victoria used, which was the same as NSW and WA, and we know the rest, and hopefully the management  of the  companies involved are hung out to dry.
wobert
Believe it or not people arriving in the country with infectious diseases is actually a state government responsibility as defined by the constitution - so it was the NSW government that screwed up the whole Ruby Princess thing. Senator Kristina Keneally is constantly on Twitter trying to sheet home the blame to Dutton but she's WRONG (as I've pointed out to her many times), it was actually the NSW Department of Health that should have intervened in the situation and isolated those passengers - not the Commonwealth.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The thing that gets me Don is the blatant lying, when the leadership of the country are so blatantly dishonest, there's not much incentive for the rest of us to behave ourselves. Trump in the US, Abbott and Morrison here. We all know they tell a few porkies, and can live with that  but the out and out whoppers and hypocracy, an example would be Keating bagging out Hewson over the GST, and after the election increasing all levels of sales tax.(And as far as I'm concerned he should have been jailed for selling the Commonwealth bank.Never asked us.) Howard  for his core and non core promises, Abbott and Morrison for just being so bare faced and so often.
wobert
The entire Hawke/Keating era was one big lie, Wobert. Privatisation of nearly everything bar Telecom, let the banks off the leash with no regulation on their operations (subsequently ensuring that housing would eventually become un-affordable), subduing and marginalising the unions through the Accord Mk I & II, user-pays for retirees and for university students, "free trade" rubbish destroying manufacturing forever while our competitors refused to drop their import barriers. IN every way we are a weaker, more vulnerable nation and a less equal society because of Hawke/Keating. Every single thing those two did was straight out of Milton Friedman's playbook for Thatcher and was emulated in this country in earnest.

The only thing that Howard had left to do by the time he got to office was privatise Telsta and triple long-term immigration so that we'd have the illusion of prosperity while in reality most Australians have seen their living standards decline. The Liberal Party you expect to do all that stuff - the Labor Party on the other hand lied to the Australian public for years about what they were actually doing under the guise of "modernisation" of the economy.

There's a direct line between the collapse of our living standards in 2020 and the 13 years that Hawke and Keating spent wreaking the joint.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Meanwhile Clive Palmer is trying to bankrupt WA all out of spite for the government denying him approval for a mine the grubby dirt bag wants to then on sell to the Chinese ????.

In this current climate, I say F..k him to the moon and back!
That bloke needs to be taken to with a character building implement ASAP. Clearly his loyalty is to his hip pocket rather than the country’s best interests. Now clearly he’s not the only one.. But 27.7 Billion - Get Fkd Clive!

What a bloke.

Regards
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.

There's a direct line between the collapse of our living standards in 2020 and the 13 years that Hawke and Keating spent wreaking the joint.
don_dunstan
Wreaking or wrecking? Drunk much?

Anyway, you accuse me of nonsensical comments yet here you are accusing Hawke and Keating of the economic fallout this year due in the main to massively up-scaled bushfires and a pandemic!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud

There's a direct line between the collapse of our living standards in 2020 and the 13 years that Hawke and Keating spent wreaking the joint.Wreaking or wrecking? Drunk much?

Anyway, you accuse me of nonsensical comments yet here you are accusing Hawke and Keating of the economic fallout this year due in the main to massively up-scaled bushfires and a pandemic!
DirtyBallast
Thank-you, Doctor Semantics. And I love the little touch of accusing me of being drunk when writing that.

So were the bushfires "massively scaled up" compared to Black Saturday? Were they bigger or smaller than the ones that burnt half of Victoria in the 1850's? Black Friday in 1939? Nobody seems to be able to answer those questions - probably because trying to compare hectares burnt and the loss of property/life and say "2020 was the worst" is patently dumb.

This country has always burnt - and it'll burn again. The first Australians understood that well and had their own fire management. It has nothing to do with the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and everything to do with the fact that the Aussie bush needs to burn in order to regenerate itself. Hell, banskias can't even germinate without fire - you seriously think a bad bushfire season is entirely anthropomorphic in origin and not just a natural phenomenon then you're just plain stupid.

And just for the record, manufacturing used to do the heavy lifting when we were in recession - and by design we off-shored all that industry so we don't have that option now. And whose policy was it to off-shore everything not nailed down? Who instituted the Button Report that proposed getting rid of the car industry and then enacted non-reciprocal, arbitrary removal of protection for Aussie workers?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.

There's a direct line between the collapse of our living standards in 2020 and the 13 years that Hawke and Keating spent wreaking the joint.Wreaking or wrecking? Drunk much?

Anyway, you accuse me of nonsensical comments yet here you are accusing Hawke and Keating of the economic fallout this year due in the main to massively up-scaled bushfires and a pandemic!Thank-you, Doctor Semantics. And I love the little touch of accusing me of being drunk when writing that.

So were the bushfires "massively scaled up" compared to Black Saturday? Were they bigger or smaller than the ones that burnt half of Victoria in the 1850's? Black Friday in 1939? Nobody seems to be able to answer those questions - probably because trying to compare hectares burnt and the loss of property/life and say "2020 was the worst" is patently dumb.

This country has always burnt - and it'll burn again. The first Australians understood that well and had their own fire management. It has nothing to do with the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and everything to do with the fact that the Aussie bush needs to burn in order to regenerate itself. Hell, banskias can't even germinate without fire - you seriously think a bad bushfire season is entirely anthropomorphic in origin and not just a natural phenomenon then you're just plain stupid.

And just for the record, manufacturing used to do the heavy lifting when we were in recession - and by design we off-shored all that industry so we don't have that option now. And whose policy was it to off-shore everything not nailed down? Who instituted the Button Report that proposed getting rid of the car industry and then enacted non-reciprocal, arbitrary removal of protection for Aussie workers?
don_dunstan
Laughing
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Morrison tells the media that he's cooperating with the Victorian enquiry into Covid-19, and then steadfastly refuses to allow two federal officials to appear before it.
Two questions: Does he understand what lying means? What does he have to hide?
Morrison also tells media he’s cooperating with NSW inquiry into the Ruby Princess, yet refused to have two federal officials appear.
The linked article alleges Alex Hawke the member for Mitchell had some involvement. To my knowledge, he’s not answered any questions in relation to.
Nothing to hide?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/is-liberal-mp-35591510?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=postshare
michaelgm
The issue is a state govt problem, nothing to do with the Feds, no matter how much people including yourself feel it should be.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The thing that gets me Don is the blatant lying, when the leadership of the country are so blatantly dishonest, there's not much incentive for the rest of us to behave ourselves. Trump in the US, Abbott and Morrison here. We all know they tell a few porkies, and can live with that  but the out and out whoppers and hypocracy, an example would be Keating bagging out Hewson over the GST, and after the election increasing all levels of sales tax.(And as far as I'm concerned he should have been jailed for selling the Commonwealth bank.Never asked us.) Howard  for his core and non core promises, Abbott and Morrison for just being so bare faced and so often.
wobert
Um no, the feds have sold lots of fed assets including the Com bank and they never need to ask for permission from the voters/taxpayers to do so. The Fed Govt owned the Com Bank, not you. Regardless it had to be sold as how can the govt own a bank in a large privatized market, the bank would have continued to be bogged down by inefficiency, high costs, unions, mis management and govt influence. The only people would would have done business with the Com bank would have been those who didn't get a better deal elsewhere.

Keating bagged Hewson over the GST, however the GST was actually an ALP incentive and unofficial policy, but they couldn't convince the blind faithful to approve it, yet! Just like he couldn't convince the same to sell Telstra, yet! Had Keating remained in power for 1-2 more terms both would have occurred.

The politicians don't lie as much as people like to make out, mostly just perception, things/circumstance change, playing politics etc for which they are encouraged to do by the voters.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Morrison tells the media that he's cooperating with the Victorian enquiry into Covid-19, and then steadfastly refuses to allow two federal officials to appear before it.
Two questions: Does he understand what lying means? What does he have to hide?
Morrison also tells media he’s cooperating with NSW inquiry into the Ruby Princess, yet refused to have two federal officials appear.
The linked article alleges Alex Hawke the member for Mitchell had some involvement. To my knowledge, he’s not answered any questions in relation to.
Nothing to hide?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/is-liberal-mp-35591510?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=postshare
The issue is a state govt problem, nothing to do with the Feds, no matter how much people including yourself feel it should be.
RTT_Rules
Assuming I agree with the premise of your statement at the very least, NSW health minister Brad Hazzard should fall on his sword.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The issue is a state govt problem, nothing to do with the Feds, no matter how much people including yourself feel it should be.
RTT_Rules
That is completely and obviously not the point. The point of both posts (mine and michaelgm's) is that Morrison said he would cooperate with the enquiries, and is now refusing to do so.  Your comment has nothing to do with those posts to which you've attached it.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Morrison tells the media that he's cooperating with the Victorian enquiry into Covid-19, and then steadfastly refuses to allow two federal officials to appear before it.
Two questions: Does he understand what lying means? What does he have to hide?
Morrison also tells media he’s cooperating with NSW inquiry into the Ruby Princess, yet refused to have two federal officials appear.
The linked article alleges Alex Hawke the member for Mitchell had some involvement. To my knowledge, he’s not answered any questions in relation to.
Nothing to hide?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/is-liberal-mp-35591510?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=postshare
The issue is a state govt problem, nothing to do with the Feds, no matter how much people including yourself feel it should be.
Assuming I agree with the premise of your statement at the very least, NSW health minister Brad Hazzard should fall on his sword.
michaelgm
WTF were ABF even looking at these documents if not their responsibility?
Yet denied leave to appear at the special commission?

Never instigate an inquiry unless the results are predetermined. Sir Humphrey.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-30/border-force-ruby-princess-coronavirus-test-bungle/12505072
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Assuming I agree with the premise of your statement at the very least, NSW health minister Brad Hazzard should fall on his sword.
michaelgm
Probably, he said they stuffed up months ago.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The issue is a state govt problem, nothing to do with the Feds, no matter how much people including yourself feel it should be.
That is completely and obviously not the point. The point of both posts (mine and michaelgm's) is that Morrison said he would cooperate with the enquiries, and is now refusing to do so.  Your comment has nothing to do with those posts to which you've attached it.
Valvegear

Correct me if I'm wrong VG, but 5mth ago when this occurred I believe it was you were getting quite cranky and in denial of who's authority it actually was in the first place, so maybe your a bit biased?

From what I understand all documents have been submitted, so they have supported the inquiry.

Personally I feel this whole thing is a nothing more than a waste of miney $hit fight blame game. Mistake was made, acknowledgement has been made, it won't happen again. So lets focus time, money and effort of this inquiry into solving the CV-19 problems of today.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Correct me if I'm wrong VG, but 5mth ago when this occurred I believe it was you were getting quite cranky and in denial of who's authority it actually was in the first place, so maybe your a bit biased?
RTT_Rules
My statement has nothing to do with what I said months ago or who's responsible or bias either. It is a statement of current fact. Morrison said he would help the enquiries; now he refuses to allow people to appear. It doesn't get much simpler. . . he's lied.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Correct me if I'm wrong VG, but 5mth ago when this occurred I believe it was you were getting quite cranky and in denial of who's authority it actually was in the first place, so maybe your a bit biased?
My statement has nothing to do with what I said months ago or who's responsible or bias either. It is a statement of current fact. Morrison said he would help the enquiries; now he refuses to allow people to appear. It doesn't get much simpler. . . he's lied.
Valvegear
Yes, but you are still sore over it and its obvious in your posts.

They have provided the relevant documentation, I'm sure any emails or phone calls on the matter will answered, so why waste time and tax payers money allowing Fed public servants to attend a pointless inquiry by the state. Bigger issues to focus on.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The thing that gets me Don is the blatant lying, when the leadership of the country are so blatantly dishonest, there's not much incentive for the rest of us to behave ourselves. Trump in the US, Abbott and Morrison here. We all know they tell a few porkies, and can live with that  but the out and out whoppers and hypocracy, an example would be Keating bagging out Hewson over the GST, and after the election increasing all levels of sales tax.(And as far as I'm concerned he should have been jailed for selling the Commonwealth bank.Never asked us.) Howard  for his core and non core promises, Abbott and Morrison for just being so bare faced and so often.
Um no, the feds have sold lots of fed assets including the Com bank and they never need to ask for permission from the voters/taxpayers to do so. The Fed Govt owned the Com Bank, not you. Regardless it had to be sold as how can the govt own a bank in a large privatized market, the bank would have continued to be bogged down by inefficiency, high costs, unions, mis management and govt influence. The only people would would have done business with the Com bank would have been those who didn't get a better deal elsewhere.
RTT_Rules
You don't have a shred of evidence for anything you've said there - the Commonwealth Banks was already a mean, profit-focused machine by the time Keating sold it for a song. And taxpayers own the government so by extension we owned the bank. You really have large gaps in your knowledge, you know that don't you.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Um no, the feds have sold lots of fed assets including the Com bank and they never need to ask for permission from the voters/taxpayers to do so. The Fed Govt owned the Com Bank, not you. Regardless it had to be sold as how can the govt own a bank in a large privatized market, the bank would have continued to be bogged down by inefficiency, high costs, unions, mis management and govt influence. The only people would would have done business with the Com bank would have been those who didn't get a better deal elsewhere.
You don't have a shred of evidence for anything you've said there - the Commonwealth Banks was already a mean, profit-focused machine by the time Keating sold it for a song. And taxpayers own the government so by extension we owned the bank. You really have large gaps in your knowledge, you know that don't you.
don_dunstan
The Com bank had been corporatised in the years prior to being sold.

So if it was "already a mean, profit-focused machine by the time Keating sold it". what was the point of keeping it.

It's share price for the years following its float indicates the price was about right.
(not adjusted for inflation)
1st  1991 - $5.40 (middle of a recession)
2nd 1993 - $9.35
3rd  1996 - $10.45 paid over 2 years (middle of Asian currency crisis, talks of a recession)
2000 - share price was around $25

There is nothing here that indicates it sold for a song.

Let me say it one more time, you maybe a taxpayer, but you DO NOT OWN the fed govt Assets.

I'm a very very very minor share holder of a number of company's but I cannot as a shareholder stop or require to be asked to sell an asset, that's why we vote for a board to run the company. That's also why you vote for a govt, to run the country! Why is this such a basic concept so hard to understand?

The "gap issue" isn't at my end!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Yes, but you are still sore over it and its obvious in your posts.
RTT_Rules
At least you're consistent; always imputing motives which are purely a figment of your imagination. Sometimes I really wonder whether you are deliberately acting as an agent provocateur, or are just plain dumb.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yes, but you are still sore over it and its obvious in your posts.
At least you're consistent; always imputing motives which are purely a figment of your imagination. Sometimes I really wonder whether you are deliberately acting as an agent provocateur, or are just plain dumb.
Valvegear
Hardly, lighten up!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Um no, the feds have sold lots of fed assets including the Com bank and they never need to ask for permission from the voters/taxpayers to do so. The Fed Govt owned the Com Bank, not you. Regardless it had to be sold as how can the govt own a bank in a large privatized market, the bank would have continued to be bogged down by inefficiency, high costs, unions, mis management and govt influence. The only people would would have done business with the Com bank would have been those who didn't get a better deal elsewhere.
You don't have a shred of evidence for anything you've said there - the Commonwealth Banks was already a mean, profit-focused machine by the time Keating sold it for a song. And taxpayers own the government so by extension we owned the bank. You really have large gaps in your knowledge, you know that don't you.
The Com bank had been corporatised in the years prior to being sold.

So if it was "already a mean, profit-focused machine by the time Keating sold it". what was the point of keeping it.
RTT_Rules

Ooooh, I dunno - to provide a fortune to the operations of the government? Considering they were so stripped of assets by the end of Howard's reign they were selling government buildings like Treasury to the private sector and paying extortionate rents for no reason?
It's share price for the years following its float indicates the price was about right. (not adjusted for inflation) 1st 1991 - $5.40 (middle of a recession) 2nd 1993 - $9.35 3rd 1996 - $10.45 paid over 2 years (middle of Asian currency crisis, talks of a recession) 2000 - share price was around $25 There is nothing here that indicates it sold for a song. Let me say it one more time, you maybe a taxpayer, but you DO NOT OWN the fed govt Assets. I'm a very very very minor share holder of a number of company's but I cannot as a shareholder stop or require to be asked to sell an asset, that's why we vote for a board to run the company. That's also why you vote for a govt, to run the country! Why is this such a basic concept so hard to understand? The "gap issue" isn't at my end!
RTT_Rules
Doesn't what you've shown there prove that the privatization was a complete taxpayer rip-off? It went up by 1000% in the intervening eight years - where can you find that sort of return in 2020? We wouldn't be relying on future Australians to pay for all the ageing pensioners plus all the other stuff future taxpayers are on the hook for with only taxation revenues - absent are the earnings from a perpetual revenue machine like the CBA.

Any answer for that?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Ooooh, I dunno - to provide a fortune to the operations of the government? Considering they were so stripped of assets by the end of Howard's reign they were selling government buildings like Treasury to the private sector and paying extortionate rents for no reason?
Doesn't what you've shown there prove that the privatization was a complete taxpayer rip-off? It went up by 1000% in the intervening eight years - where can you find that sort of return in 2020? We wouldn't be relying on future Australians to pay for all the ageing pensioners plus all the other stuff future taxpayers are on the hook for with only taxation revenues - absent are the earnings from a perpetual revenue machine like the CBA.

Any answer for that?
don_dunstan
There was no justification for the Com Bank to remain in Fed govt hands in what was a large private industry and removing it from the Fed's allowed it to be more independent and improve its performance.

As for answers, where to start
- 1000%, maybe back to school for you. You have said in the past you have lost money on the ASX, now I can see why.

- The % increase was only slightly ahead of the All Ords index. Indicating most of the growth in the share price was reflective of market conditions and not the CBA. Free of its Govt shackles the bank shares would have also increased in value as investors would be more comfortable to invest and likely its performance improved as it trimmed govt influenced Fat.

- 2020, plenty, try Mac bank shares, 50% increase to date, and if you timed it well Qantas shares could have doubled your money. Shall I go on?

- So what your promoting is 100% take over of all industry by the govt so that future pensions are funded and the rest of us don't need to pay tax at all, nice suggestion comrade Don, surprised no one thought of nationalisation of industry. Oh wait???Rolling Eyes
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
There was no justification for the Com Bank to remain in Fed govt hands in what was a large private industry and removing it from the Fed's allowed it to be more independent and improve its performance.
RTT_Rules
Using that logic we should also privatise the collection of taxation revenues as the private sector would be much better at it. I could see the big banks or insurance companies digging deep for that guaranteed revenue stream, can't you?
As for answers, where to start - 1000%, maybe back to school for you. You have said in the past you have lost money on the ASX, now I can see why. - The % increase was only slightly ahead of the All Ords index. Indicating most of the growth in the share price was reflective of market conditions and not the CBA. Free of its Govt shackles the bank shares would have also increased in value as investors would be more comfortable to invest and likely its performance improved as it trimmed govt influenced Fat. - 2020, plenty, try Mac bank shares, 50% increase to date, and if you timed it well Qantas shares could have doubled your money. Shall I go on? - So what your promoting is 100% take over of all industry by the govt so that future pensions are funded and the rest of us don't need to pay tax at all, nice suggestion comrade Don, surprised no one thought of nationalisation of industry. Oh wait???Rolling Eyes
RTT_Rules
The poop that dribbles from your mouth is astonishing - have you ever tried adding up the dividends that CBA have paid out since privatisation? Nah, of course you haven't because that would entirely negate your argument.

Trying to argue that the Commonwealth Bank privatisation WASN'T a tax payer rip off is futile but I do admire your giving it a red hot go... it was sold way too cheaply, end of story.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner


Ooooh, I dunno - to provide a fortune to the operations of the government? Considering they were so stripped of assets by the end of Howard's reign they were selling government buildings like Treasury to the private sector and paying extortionate rents for no reason?
Doesn't what you've shown there prove that the privatization was a complete taxpayer rip-off? It went up by 1000% in the intervening eight years - where can you find that sort of return in 2020? We wouldn't be relying on future Australians to pay for all the ageing pensioners plus all the other stuff future taxpayers are on the hook for with only taxation revenues - absent are the earnings from a perpetual revenue machine like the CBA.

Any answer for that?There was no justification for the Com Bank to remain in Fed govt hands in what was a large private industry and removing it from the Fed's allowed it to be more independent and improve its performance.

As for answers, where to start
- 1000%, maybe back to school for you. You have said in the past you have lost money on the ASX, now I can see why.

- The % increase was only slightly ahead of the All Ords index. Indicating most of the growth in the share price was reflective of market conditions and not the CBA. Free of its Govt shackles the bank shares would have also increased in value as investors would be more comfortable to invest and likely its performance improved as it trimmed govt influenced Fat.

- 2020, plenty, try Mac bank shares, 50% increase to date, and if you timed it well Qantas shares could have doubled your money. Shall I go on?

- So what your promoting is 100% take over of all industry by the govt so that future pensions are funded and the rest of us don't need to pay tax at all, nice suggestion comrade Don, surprised no one thought of nationalisation of industry. Oh wait???Rolling Eyes
RTT_Rules
Here’s Macquarie group today.up 4% in last 12 months.
Trading at approx $90 prior to GFC.



[color=#3a96d8]MQG[/color] Macquarie Group Ltd $126.69 +0.51 +0.40% $127.26 $125.25 780,991 $45,798,894,505 +3.66%
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Here’s Macquarie group today.up 4% in last 12 months.
Trading at approx $90 prior to GFC.



[color=#3a96d8]MQG[/color] Macquarie Group Ltd $126.69 +0.51 +0.40% $127.26 $125.25 780,991 $45,798,894,505 +3.66%
michaelgm
That thing is like a giant leech sucking off the taxpayer - projects that used to be funded by government bond issues like the Trans Australian Railway are now financed through these ticket clippers whose boards are stacked with (you guessed it) ex-politicians. Another way in which the poor old long suffering taxpayers of Australia are getting shafted with poor-performing and expensive projects.

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