The Aussie politics thread -

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What are you blathering about - "government control of the banking sector"? Banks are a private business and their affairs are private and not under the direct control of the government. Doing otherwise would be communist and we all knows where that will end up don't we.

You suffer from exactly the same delusion that modern supporters of the banks in Australia suffer from today - they don't understand the difference between socialist command-economies and a proper capitalist market economy. They think that the banks should operate with impunity and be allowed to make all the money that they can by any means possible while the sun is shining but then they insist that the government rides valiantly to their rescue when they get into trouble.

That's not capitalist and not the proper operation of a market economy - it's called corruption.
So not only do you want the government to rescue the banks that created the problem, you praise the fact that the government saved the greedy people who went balls deep into Sydney and Melbourne residential property at exactly the wrong time and should have suffered from their stupidity. But no - the government made sure that didn't happen - God forbid that those people should suffer from their own bad decisions!

Thank goodness Kevin Rudd proved himself to be a spineless piece of jelly and caved to the demands of the selfish and insolvent and come to their rescue valiantly with government money. Again, bald-faced corruption that punished hard-working people who saved all their lives and rewarded the reckless and irresponsible from the consequences of their own greed. Hurrah.

I know exactly where you're coming from, Shane - why should anyone ever have to lose money ever when those losses can be borne by everyone? Socialism is really good like that - everyone has to pay for the stupidity of the reckless and the greedy.
don_dunstan
You are the one who wants to repeat the 1890's and the carnage it caused to the economy, your such a patriot!

No Don, only you dream about socialism, I believe in independence within the boundaries set by the community. However some times the govt has to get involved to protect an industry or indeed the community at large. The only thing the Aust govt did for the banks was simply to sell for $5B a guarantee that was very unlikely to be called on and provided stability to the financial sector.

Rudd sold a guarantee to the banks that was never used and very unlikely to be used and if they had we would have much bigger issues to worry about in return for $5B from the banks for the taxpayer, I'm not a fan of Rudd, but if thats a spineless piece of jelly, I'd hate to see your definition of smart. You also call this open and transparent transaction of corruption? I thought you were a Victorian?

The bulk of the people balls deep in the residential market are "mum's and dad's" in their family home and you know if the market collapses, its not just them that are affected, 100'000's of jobs and others who bought at the shoulder, again you insult the average Australian, your such a patriot!

You clearly have no idea where anyone is coming from on this Don.

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Whereas the only fact that you give a damn about is anything that benefits you at everyone else's expense.
No but it was the taxpayers of the Commonwealth of Australia and it was making a fortune for them up until it was privatised for a song. Something that you're now getting really angry about because you can't refute that basic, fundamental fact.
The rest of your argument is just emotional rubbish and straw-man.

You can't argue your way out of a paper-bag, Shane.
So you harp on about evils of socialism, but you believe the CBA should have remained in govt control, then why not nationalise all the banks Don, you cannot have it both ways.

One more time for the dummies.
- 70% of the bank was sold at market rates and it didn't see a significant above sector growth in the 10 years that followed.
- The 30% that saw the strongest growth was the IPO of which the govt was the biggest winner. Ever thought this may have been a strategy to boost the share price for the remaining 2 x IPO's maximizing the dividend to the tax payer?

Don, all your argument is rubbish.

And again you have quietly walked from most of your other pie in the sky claims.
RTT_Rules
Australia is built off the back of government control of SOME instrumentalities for various reasons - either ensuring competition, equal distribution of services between city and country etc etc. I'm not surprised at all that you don't understand that given that you haven't lived in this country for many years.

Again for the stupid, what about the tax-free fully franked dividends that the bank spat out for years after privatisation? You still won't acknowledge that because you're either dishonest or plain dumb.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
You are the one who wants to repeat the 1890's and the carnage it caused to the economy, your such a patriot!
RTT_Rules
That is the way a market is supposed to function, Shane - it creates winners and losers. What happened in 2011 exactly embodies what is wrong with this country in the modern age in that the government doesn't want anyone to lose money.

That's the antithesis of what a market is, do you seriously not get that? What you're doing in the longer term every time you rescue people from their own greed is create incredibly bad distortions in a market where people continue to sink their money into one asset class because they know the government will always - ALWAYS - come to their rescue if something goes wrong.

So then they don't invest in things like business, manufacturing or any other kind of money making venture because - why should they? And that's exactly where we are right now.

If people had ended up in negative equity after the GFC then the banks would have handled it WITHOUT government intervention. They wanted to be able to keep lending money to keep the asset bubble ticking along without bearing any of the consequences of their poor decision to lend too much for Melbourne and Sydney housing in the years prior.

It would have been handled at the time, it was just that the banks successfully managed to extort the government into getting what they wanted - just like the mining companies managed to roll the resource rent tax and so we squibbed a once-in-a-century opportunity to have a sovereign wealth fund because Twiggy and Gina didn't want to share their windfall. The ultra rich got their way and the rest of us suffered.
No Don, only you dream about socialism, I believe in independence within the boundaries set by the community.
RTT_Rules
No, you believe that the government has a duty to protect people from the consequences of their own actions. That's socialism.
The bulk of the people balls deep in the residential market are "mum's and dad's" in their family home and you know if the market collapses, its not just them that are affected, 100'000's of jobs and others who bought at the shoulder, again you insult the average Australian, your such a patriot!
RTT_Rules
That's right out of the Australian Banking Association's playbook... appeals to ordinary people losing money, appeals to those people whose livelihoods depend on the housing bubble. So what if some people lose some money on over-valued assets? That's what a market economy is - I don't know how many times I've had to repeat this point and every single time you ignore it because you sincerely believe that society has a duty to protect the wealthy from any possible ramifications from putting too much money into a single asset class.

That is not what capitalism is - that is socilaising the losses at the expense of the community.

And please don't tell me I'm not patriotic. You don't live here, you haven't lived here for years - you left this place to make money. You really have no right to comment on how we should be running the joint.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
And please don't tell me I'm not patriotic. You don't live here, you haven't lived here for years - you left this place to make money. You really have no right to comment on how we should be running the joint.
don_dunstan
LET'S ALL REMEMBER THAT the next time Don lectures us about the happenings outside the Sth Aust bubble.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Australia is built off the back of government control of SOME instrumentalities for various reasons - either ensuring competition, equal distribution of services between city and country etc etc. I'm not surprised at all that you don't understand that given that you haven't lived in this country for many years.

Again for the stupid, what about the tax-free fully franked dividends that the bank spat out for years after privatisation? You still won't acknowledge that because you're either dishonest or plain dumb.
don_dunstan
Fully franked dividends is hardly anything new nor unique for CBA.

We had the same discussions when I lived in Australia, like wise you have no lived in Qld or NSW and Vic for years but very uick to tell people how to live.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And please don't tell me I'm not patriotic. You don't live here, you haven't lived here for years - you left this place to make money. You really have no right to comment on how we should be running the joint.
LET'S ALL REMEMBER THAT the next time Don lectures us about the happenings outside the Sth Aust bubble.
justarider
Last time I checked it was the same country...?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And please don't tell me I'm not patriotic. You don't live here, you haven't lived here for years - you left this place to make money. You really have no right to comment on how we should be running the joint.
LET'S ALL REMEMBER THAT the next time Don lectures us about the happenings outside the Sth Aust bubble.
Last time I checked it was the same country...?
don_dunstan
So whats the difference for you reading the news from Sydney and someone out of the country doing the same, noting that for a few months now and some time yet, you cannot even cross some of the states borders?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And please don't tell me I'm not patriotic. You don't live here, you haven't lived here for years - you left this place to make money. You really have no right to comment on how we should be running the joint.
LET'S ALL REMEMBER THAT the next time Don lectures us about the happenings outside the Sth Aust bubble.
Last time I checked it was the same country...?
So whats the difference for you reading the news from Sydney and someone out of the country doing the same, noting that for a few months now and some time yet, you cannot even cross some of the states borders?
RTT_Rules
Seem to recall a while back you told me I wasn't qualified to discuss world affairs because I wasn't as well-traveled as you. Does that still count now that you're arguing the opposite with regards to the internet being the great leveler?

Make up your mind.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Deutsche Bank says that it expects our RBA to cut interest rates even further (how?); FX Street:

Lowering the cash rate and three-year AGS target to 0.1% now looks likely.

We expect that to be installed by February, but do not rule it out before the end of this year.

An expanded QE programme focused on the five to ten year part of the AGS curve looks increasingly possible, though we fall short of including that in our baseline for now.

A negative cash rate looks increasingly less improbable. The RBA's self-imposed hurdle to a negative policy rate is high, but is not insurmountable. ... The earliest we could see a negative policy rate being installed is mid 2021. But again, and despite our previously stated preference for a negative rate policy, we fall short of including that in our baseline for now.

I don't know why they think a negative interest rate here in Australia is unlikely; cutting interest rates to 0.1% is pretty much a negative interest rate policy anyway isn't it?

I'm astonished that those people who have scrimped and saved most of their working lives to try and keep money aside for emergencies or to maintain some contingency are now being punished so heavily while those who have speculated on accumulating as much housing debt as they possibly can (and/or massive 'investment property' portfolios) are now being rewarded with retail mortgage rates now around 2.6%, not to mention official mortgage 'holidays'. I guess saving the banking system is the priority for the RBA at the moment.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Seem to recall a while back you told me I wasn't qualified to discuss world affairs because I wasn't as well-traveled as you. Does that still count now that you're arguing the opposite with regards to the internet being the great leveler?

Make up your mind.
"don_dunstan"


I've said that right from the start,  you however feel that geographic is more important despite that fact you spend about as much time in the eastern states every year as I do.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Deutsche Bank says that it expects our RBA to cut interest rates even further (how?); FX Street:

Lowering the cash rate and three-year AGS target to 0.1% now looks likely.

We expect that to be installed by February, but do not rule it out before the end of this year.

An expanded QE programme focused on the five to ten year part of the AGS curve looks increasingly possible, though we fall short of including that in our baseline for now.

A negative cash rate looks increasingly less improbable. The RBA's self-imposed hurdle to a negative policy rate is high, but is not insurmountable. ... The earliest we could see a negative policy rate being installed is mid 2021. But again, and despite our previously stated preference for a negative rate policy, we fall short of including that in our baseline for now.

I don't know why they think a negative interest rate here in Australia is unlikely; cutting interest rates to 0.1% is pretty much a negative interest rate policy anyway isn't it?

I'm astonished that those people who have scrimped and saved most of their working lives to try and keep money aside for emergencies or to maintain some contingency are now being punished so heavily while those who have speculated on accumulating as much housing debt as they possibly can (and/or massive 'investment property' portfolios) are now being rewarded with retail mortgage rates now around 2.6%, not to mention official mortgage 'holidays'. I guess saving the banking system is the priority for the RBA at the moment.
"don_dunstan"


Not sure if they will go negative, but I see 0% as realistic and the end of an era by the Reserve Banks of developing countries using interest rates to throttle the economy as inflation becomes a thing of the past, likely permanently. This is not an Australian phenomena, but global. The days of double digit inflation will unlikely ever return in a modern digital economy.  

Nest Egg savers of the past were basically retiring on money paid by those borrowing to buy their houses, this is no longer a practical source of reasonable level of income.  Nest egg savings need to look at other investment strategies that build growth by actually increasing performance, productivity etc such as shares etc. So no need to be punished, just adapt and change.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Seem to recall a while back you told me I wasn't qualified to discuss world affairs because I wasn't as well-traveled as you. Does that still count now that you're arguing the opposite with regards to the internet being the great leveler?

Make up your mind.


I've said that right from the start,  you however feel that geographic is more important despite that fact you spend about as much time in the eastern states every year as I do.
RTT_Rules
And again with the claims to superior knowledge.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Household incomes have actually boomed since the start of the COVID19 crisis. The economy has shrunk by 7% overall but households are being supported to the hilt by turbocharged government spending:


Two guesses what will happen when the government money runs out!
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Household incomes have actually boomed since the start of the COVID19 crisis. The economy has shrunk by 7% overall but households are being supported to the hilt by turbocharged government spending:


Two guesses what will happen when the government money runs out!
don_dunstan
And now CBA is employing "economists" that cant pass 3rd grade maths. Add apples and peanuts gives us how many pints of milk.

Eg price of grapes +30%, all other food +1% = total food price increase  +31%
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And now CBA is employing "economists" that cant pass 3rd grade maths. Add apples and peanuts gives us how many pints of milk.

Eg price of grapes +30%, all other food +1% = total food price increase  +31%
justarider

Why does it invalidate the central point of that chart which is that government spending has actually boosted household income?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Household incomes have actually boomed since the start of the COVID19 crisis. The economy has shrunk by 7% overall but households are being supported to the hilt by turbocharged government spending:


Two guesses what will happen when the government money runs out!
don_dunstan
Only one guess required. Smegstorm.
Whilst walking on Tuesday, noticed a bloke enjoying his fast food takeaway, with likely all his worldly possessions. Never seen that before in my suburb, commented to the Mrs, expecting to see much more, in the near future.

Labor’s debt and deficit disaster will appear like a pay day loan, in comparison seeing that the superior economic managers are in charge.
And back to another thread, RE Bill Shorten, I honestly suspect, given what’s transpired, he’s probably glad he was unelectable.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
NSW Greens MP and Member for Newtown Jenny Leong signs a letter in support of the Chinese Communist Party and is going to give a speech tomorrow outlining why the CCP is the innocent party in recent problems with Australia:


I'm glad that she's finally outed herself as an ardent supporter of the Chinese Communist Party - I've always suspected that the Greens are really 'watermelons' - green on the outside and red on the inside.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Only one guess required. Smegstorm.
Whilst walking on Tuesday, noticed a bloke enjoying his fast food takeaway, with likely all his worldly possessions. Never seen that before in my suburb, commented to the Mrs, expecting to see much more, in the near future.

Labor’s debt and deficit disaster will appear like a pay day loan, in comparison seeing that the superior economic managers are in charge.
And back to another thread, RE Bill Shorten, I honestly suspect, given what’s transpired, he’s probably glad he was unelectable.
michaelgm
Nah Shorten is still - STILL - a power hungry ego maniac and he's still lusting after the top job. You only have to look at his Twitter feed to see that he's still putting his 'big ideas' out there about how he would have handled the crisis.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
And now CBA is employing "economists" that cant pass 3rd grade maths. Add apples and peanuts gives us how many pints of milk.

Eg price of grapes +30%, all other food +1% = total food price increase  +31%

Why does it invalidate the central point of that chart which is that government spending has actually boosted household income?
don_dunstan
Because that is not a chart of household income (total or %increase).

Basic 3rd grade maths fail to conflate measures of 2 disparate things.

If you want to meaure the undoubted affect of the Govt measures on Household Income, then show the HI chart (or growth).
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Only one guess required. Smegstorm.
Whilst walking on Tuesday, noticed a bloke enjoying his fast food takeaway, with likely all his worldly possessions. Never seen that before in my suburb, commented to the Mrs, expecting to see much more, in the near future.

Labor’s debt and deficit disaster will appear like a pay day loan, in comparison seeing that the superior economic managers are in charge.
And back to another thread, RE Bill Shorten, I honestly suspect, given what’s transpired, he’s probably glad he was unelectable.
Nah Shorten is still - STILL - a power hungry ego maniac and he's still lusting after the top job. You only have to look at his Twitter feed to see that he's still putting his 'big ideas' out there about how he would have handled the crisis.
don_dunstan
Have not seen his Twitter account. Only view the occasion twitter and then only as a guest. Not registered.
Bill may yet have another opportunity, Albo ain’t cutting the mustard.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Only one guess required. Smegstorm.
Whilst walking on Tuesday, noticed a bloke enjoying his fast food takeaway, with likely all his worldly possessions. Never seen that before in my suburb, commented to the Mrs, expecting to see much more, in the near future.

Labor’s debt and deficit disaster will appear like a pay day loan, in comparison seeing that the superior economic managers are in charge.
And back to another thread, RE Bill Shorten, I honestly suspect, given what’s transpired, he’s probably glad he was unelectable.
Nah Shorten is still - STILL - a power hungry ego maniac and he's still lusting after the top job. You only have to look at his Twitter feed to see that he's still putting his 'big ideas' out there about how he would have handled the crisis.
Have not seen his Twitter account. Only view the occasion twitter and then only as a guest. Not registered.
Bill may yet have another opportunity, Albo ain’t cutting the mustard.
michaelgm
You don't have to be registered to view Bill's tweets. Anyway it's all a moot point as they'll never go back to Bill - he's like this decade's Kim Beasley, just trying to say what he thinks the public want to hear.

I'm not sure who else they will pick but I think the point a lot of Labor MP's are making about the party trying to suck up too much to the inner city educated types while leaving the real workers behind is quite valid. They need someone who can re-enfranchise the voters who deserted them at the 2019 election.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Seem to recall a while back you told me I wasn't qualified to discuss world affairs because I wasn't as well-traveled as you. Does that still count now that you're arguing the opposite with regards to the internet being the great leveler?

Make up your mind.


I've said that right from the start,  you however feel that geographic is more important despite that fact you spend about as much time in the eastern states every year as I do.
And again with the claims to superior knowledge.
don_dunstan
Hardly.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Household incomes have actually boomed since the start of the COVID19 crisis. The economy has shrunk by 7% overall but households are being supported to the hilt by turbocharged government spending:


Two guesses what will happen when the government money runs out!
don_dunstan
Governments cannot run out of money. Look at the US. They just print more.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Governments cannot run out of money. Look at the US. They just print more.
nswtrains
For the second time today I have to cite false equivalency - the Australian dollar is not a globally-traded reserve currency and its very vulnerable to things like external trade shock or printing too much money/issuing too many bonds. You can't compare the AU$ to the US$.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Household incomes have actually boomed since the start of the COVID19 crisis. The economy has shrunk by 7% overall but households are being supported to the hilt by turbocharged government spending:


Two guesses what will happen when the government money runs out!
Governments cannot run out of money. Look at the US. They just print more.
nswtrains
And When they do it aways works soo well, Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezula, ect, ect

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: