Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I believe there is a big market for First Class as there is in all other countries.   Just out of interest is NSW offering First Class seating on their regional services?

Yep and in a 2+1 format. I think it might be called business class instead of first class and because it is diesel electric it will be much more amenable to the passenger with no whining gearbox or engine noise during acceleration.

edit: It is called premium class on the new regional fleet in NSW.
simstrain

A whining gearbox, which I quite like the sound of and being far preferable to whining passengers, always tells by the sound of the engine and gearbox that when 'top gear' has been reached, the train is travelling in excess of 132Km/h. (tested by many cab-rides)
I actually prefer to sit in the middle of the car where the engine/gearbox noise is, because the sound is good for lulling to sleep on the regular commute and drowns out the whining and not-whining pax.

I never sit in 'Quiet cars' as there's always someone on their phone or speaking loudly because the Quiet car concept doesn't apply to them.

Mike.

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  route14 Chief Commissioner

Me, too.  Essentially that's an important part of attraction for gunzels.  Even speaking from a general passenger's point of view, engine and gear noise are usually "routine" and rhythmic.  The noise some unruly passengers make comes all of a sudden, such as loud coughs and sneezes (especially into the crowd), and spitting.  The latter used to be rare in Australia but increasing in recent years.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

The CAF design is also Bi Modal, so pantographs as well as under floor diesel electrics. This is something Bombardier will have to anticipate and be ready for. Converting their fleet from diesel hydraulic to diesel electric would be a good start.

For example, the driver car at each end of a long haul V Locity; these are apparently slightly overweight. This is due to the extra crash protection for the driver, and the transmission being located under the driver's cab. As part of a diesel electric conversion I would move the traction motors to the other end of the car, so the rear bogie instead of the front bogie. This reduces the frontal weight and spreads the load more evenly. Thus helping to alleviate the weight problem. It's not perfect, but it would probably be enough to make a difference here.

The next step is for Bombardier to build all new DMUS as diesel electric. Then all they need to do is add in a trailer car  with the pantograph on the roof and the electrical systems under the floor (easy - they use a version of their Adelaide EMU trailer car). The power from the 3x diesels would be enough to still power the train up to 160kph, all be it with a very small increase in the time needed to reach their maximum speed. This also moves these trains from three cars into the four car mode that Kuldalai has been suggesting for years.

I would point out that if we all go Bi Modal, then the "hill climbs" will need to be electrified for climbing purposes. So initially Melbourne SCS to:

  • Baccus Marsh and including the down end of Bank Box Loop.
  • Kynenton to Castlemaine.
  • Craigiburne to Seymour.

Other electrification would be to: Geelong (Marshall) and Warragul initially, followed by Ballarat, Bendigo and Traralgon later on.

Geelong to Warrnabmool, Warragul to Bairnsdale, north of Castlemaine to Bendigo (and Swan Hill & Echuca) and Seymour to Shepparton can easily run on the diesel electric as they are on flat ground with only a 130kph top speed. Three diesels can move a trailer car easily in this situation. If required, a fourth diesel for a five car long haul set can be added.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The SG units have finally been ordered for delivery https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/more-victorianmade-vlocity-trains-on-the-way

With an investment of $340 million in the Victorian Budget 2019/20, this new order will include 12 new broad-gauge trains to improve capacity on Victoria’s busiest regional lines and six additional new standard-gauge trains for the North East line, which is currently being upgraded.
Ben Caroll

6 trains only of how many cars?

The new broad-gauge trains have been designed for both short and medium distance services and will include a facelift including modified drivers’ cab, dedicated storage area for bicycles and accessibility improvements.
Somebody

12 x new sets for the BG for what lines?

The new long-haul standard-gauge trains will begin to replace the aging classic fleet on the North East line next year, providing passengers with a more modern, comfortable journey between Melbourne and Albury.
Somebody

What is the date the new SG trains will be in the tracks and now will they avoid damage to the rolling stock seen to the current sets?

Could they move the n classes and cars to the western lines and open new services up on the Horsham line?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The SG units have finally been ordered for delivery https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/more-victorianmade-vlocity-trains-on-the-way

With an investment of $340 million in the Victorian Budget 2019/20, this new order will include 12 new broad-gauge trains to improve capacity on Victoria’s busiest regional lines and six additional new standard-gauge trains for the North East line, which is currently being upgraded.

6 trains only of how many cars?

The new broad-gauge trains have been designed for both short and medium distance services and will include a facelift including modified drivers’ cab, dedicated storage area for bicycles and accessibility improvements.

12 x new sets for the BG for what lines?

The new long-haul standard-gauge trains will begin to replace the aging classic fleet on the North East line next year, providing passengers with a more modern, comfortable journey between Melbourne and Albury.

What is the date the new SG trains will be in the tracks and now will they avoid damage to the rolling stock seen to the current sets?

Could they move the n classes and cars to the western lines and open new services up on the Horsham line?
bevans
That's 6x 3 car V/los.  Or 3x 6 car V/los.  i.e. Run 2 trains back and forth each day, with 1 spare.

NE line upgrade is expected to be complete by mid/late-2021, so probably early 2022 for SG V/lo services to begin getting shaken to pieces.

BG V/los will be mainly to replace existing N and H-sets on Geelong, Bacchus Marsh and Gippy services.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
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The new rolling stock only appears to be replacing not adding capacity.

I would not be adding any new Velocity units to the Geelong line without considering the plan to electrify already being priced in the government.

Missed opportunity for an additional SG set for trialing around Western Victoria?  Service between Geelong and Stawell?  At the very least the SG units could be paraded out west with the train running our there for testing.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Finally some good news on this front it is welcomed news even if we do not like the VLocity trains we will get them.

Speed is touted to 130 kmh still well short of what they can do but Bette Ethan eBay we have now.

Only 6 units will they run in 3 car sets ?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Finally some good news on this front it is welcomed news even if we do not like the VLocity trains we will get them.

Speed is touted to 130 kmh still well short of what they can do but Bette Ethan eBay we have now.

Only 6 units will they run in 3 car sets ?
freightgate
It might depend on demand?  I'm hearing they'll all be 6 car sets most of the time.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
That is a relief.

How many sets are required to run the current timetable ?
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
bevans
The current 4 SG N sets manage the day.

Since Vlo are far more reliable, there is no sense wasting one as a spare. Also 6 car sets are overkill for the quiet times.
So 2 x 6 car, and 2 x 3 car would give ample coverage.

If (when) they run out, bogey swap an existing BG to SG remains an option.

We can only dream that the "retired" SG N sets get a refresh for outings to the north west.

cheers
John
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Finally some good news on this front it is welcomed news even if we do not like the VLocity trains we will get them.

Speed is touted to 130 kmh still well short of what they can do but Bette Ethan eBay we have now.

Only 6 units will they run in 3 car sets ?
freightgate
You've said many times that ' we ' don't like the V'los, so what don't you actually like about them and the ones you're referring, haven't been used by the public.

I bet the folks at Warrnambool, Shep or Swine Hill would be happy to take your new trains, don't look gift horses in the mouth, be thankful for small mercies.... eh

BigShunter.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
By ordering the bare minimium of rolling stock for SG there is no scope at all to increase services unless they keep the current rolling stock on hand.  I would like to see that older rollings tock made avaikable to a private firm who could bid to run services in the western part of the state.  If v/line is unable or unwilling then do a Kennett and offer the services up for tender.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
bevans
Six services only use two sets. 8610 (Morn. Up)-8615 (Mid. Down)-8630 (Eve. Up) and 8605 (Morn. Down)-8620 (Mid. Up)-8625 (Eve. Down) being the general pattern barring anything being knocked out.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
Six services only use two sets. 8610 (Morn. Up)-8615 (Mid. Down)-8630 (Eve. Up) and 8605 (Morn. Down)-8620 (Mid. Up)-8625 (Eve. Down) being the general pattern barring anything being knocked out.
Greensleeves
Thanks @Greensleeves . My mistake too. 6 each way includes coaches from Seymour, continuing the BG trains.

With 3 new sets, plenty of scope for more than the current 3 train trips each way.

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
Six services only use two sets. 8610 (Morn. Up)-8615 (Mid. Down)-8630 (Eve. Up) and 8605 (Morn. Down)-8620 (Mid. Up)-8625 (Eve. Down) being the general pattern barring anything being knocked out.
Greensleeves

The order then is for 6 x 3 car sets?
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Could they move the n classes and cars to the western lines and open new services up on the Horsham line?
bevans
Can I let this 1 off the chain, again..........Mildura.....Wink

BigShunter.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

There are 6 services per day between Melbourne and Albury. The allocations you suggest is only 1/2 the fleet requirements?
Six services only use two sets. 8610 (Morn. Up)-8615 (Mid. Down)-8630 (Eve. Up) and 8605 (Morn. Down)-8620 (Mid. Up)-8625 (Eve. Down) being the general pattern barring anything being knocked out.

The order then is for 6 x 3 car sets?
bevans
Will a three car set be enough? Or are they joining 2 x 3 car sets together? Keep in mind that with a buffet taking extra space in the middle car, plus the greater seated leg room in all three cars, the number of seats will be lower than the current BG VL three car sets. Then if they need 2 x 3 cars, isn't that an unnecessary duplication of buffets? I would have thought it more efficient to have one buffet for a dedicated four or five car set.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The existing four-car N sets were already overcrowded pre-COVID 19, so three-car will definitely be insufficient unless more services are run.  I agree that one buffet with walk-through six-car consist will be more spatially efficient if they were to be operating as six-cars all the time.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This is very simple.

There have been 6 sets ordered. Each set has 3 carriages and can be joined together with another to form 1x 6 carriage train.

To run the current timetable of services between Melbourne and Albury on any given day, 2 trains are required. In most cases, these trains will be made up of 2x 3 car sets to from 6 carriage trains. That will still leave 2 sets (or 1 six carriage train) to meet the demands of the maintenance cycle.

In the event that more than 2 sets require maintenance at any one time, some trains may run as only 1 set (1x 3 carriage train) meaning that the train can still run, rather than being cancelled all together as is the case at the moment.

--

By the time these new DMUs have been introduced into service, the current N cars and N class locomotives will be approaching 40 years old. I suspect the N class locomotives will be returned to the broad gauge locomotive pool, with some possibly sold off, and the carriages will be mostly offered up to heritage operators or scrapped.

By ordering the bare minimium of rolling stock for SG there is no scope at all to increase services unless they keep the current rolling stock on hand.
NSWGR8022

The order can always be increased at a later date if this design proves successful on the Albury line. Regardless of the gauge.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

This is very simple.

There have been 6 sets ordered. Each set has 3 carriages and can be joined together with another to form 1x 6 carriage train.

To run the current timetable of services between Melbourne and Albury on any given day, 2 trains are required. In most cases, these trains will be made up of 2x 3 car sets to from 6 carriage trains. That will still leave 2 sets (or 1 six carriage train) to meet the demands of the maintenance cycle.

In the event that more than 2 sets require maintenance at any one time, some trains may run as only 1 set (1x 3 carriage train) meaning that the train can still run, rather than being cancelled all together as is the case at the moment.

--

By the time these new DMUs have been introduced into service, the current N cars and N class locomotives will be approaching 40 years old. I suspect the N class locomotives will be returned to the broad gauge locomotive pool, with some possibly sold off, and the carriages will be mostly offered up to heritage operators or scrapped.

By ordering the bare minimium of rolling stock for SG there is no scope at all to increase services unless they keep the current rolling stock on hand.

The order can always be increased at a later date if this design proves successful on the Albury line. Regardless of the gauge.
Gman_86
Thanks Gman_86

That clears that up.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The Vic Government really only had 1 option to go with for this new regional Victorian SG fleet. Any hopes of it being a newer design were gone when the NSW Government went with the more modern CAF design which suited our needs but because of where it is made was never going to be viable for Victoria. The interior at least takes some design ideas from the new NSW fleet.

Interesting can you elaborate further?

What would have prevented Victoria from tacking on an order?
bevans

Not made in Australia. Victoria was always going with the Vlocity and wanted NSW to buy Vlocity's. NSW didn't want those trains.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


A whining gearbox, which I quite like the sound of and being far preferable to whining passengers, always tells by the sound of the engine and gearbox that when 'top gear' has been reached, the train is travelling in excess of 132Km/h. (tested by many cab-rides)
I actually prefer to sit in the middle of the car where the engine/gearbox noise is, because the sound is good for lulling to sleep on the regular commute and drowns out the whining and not-whining pax.

I never sit in 'Quiet cars' as there's always someone on their phone or speaking loudly because the Quiet car concept doesn't apply to them.

Mike.
The Vinelander

The generator (engine) isn't in the middle of the carriage in new regional fleet train either. In a 3 car set there is a generator in carriage 1 and 3 with carriage 2 being a trailer. The generator is near the Bogie and the exhaust is also at the end of the carriage instead of in the centre like the Vlocity.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Will a three car set be enough? Or are they joining 2 x 3 car sets together? Keep in mind that with a buffet taking extra space in the middle car, plus the greater seated leg room in all three cars, the number of seats will be lower than the current BG VL three car sets. Then if they need 2 x 3 cars, isn't that an unnecessary duplication of buffets? I would have thought it more efficient to have one buffet for a dedicated four or five car set.
Duncs
How about a 6 car train made up of 2 terminal units and 4 intermediate units? The 6 car train would be the correct length to suit platforms and servicing facilities, which is the sticking point with the 4 car trains so often put forward by Kuldalai.
The intermediate units could be made up with 1 or 2 trailer cars as an efficiency measure, and a single buffet could serve the whole train.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
By ordering the bare minimium of rolling stock for SG there is no scope at all to increase services unless they keep the current rolling stock on hand.  I would like to see that older rollings tock made avaikable to a private firm who could bid to run services in the western part of the state.  If v/line is unable or unwilling then do a Kennett and offer the services up for tender.
NSWGR8022
The Western standard gauge line Is not set up for diesel railcars, substantial amount of coin would need to be spent on level crossing upgrades, so It ain't on the cards.

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