Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
I don't understand some peoples (and railway managements) obsession with locomotives and them being superior.   They aren't superior anymore.
Locomotives were only superior when they could be used on other trains (when the passenger train was stabled, like overnight)
Nightfire
Which is slightly odd considering most passenger locomotives around the world (asides from Australia) are kinda specced to be geared towards use on passenger trains.

It was probably more the option variable train length that factored into it, which kind of went away when multiple units and fixed sets became a thing.

Sponsored advertisement

  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Which is slightly odd considering most passenger locomotives around the world (asides from Australia) are kinda specced to be geared towards use on passenger trains.
speedemon08
All locomotives used on Victorian country passenger trains were used on goods trains also.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That's because the speed limit of Victoria's locomotive-hauled passenger trains is not much higher than that of freight trains.  Some Freight Australia's N class have been regeared with a top speed of 100 km/h to provide higher torque at lower speeds.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
While I haven't been on any V/line loco hauled services.   Velocities are not loud by any stretch.  Can you hear the gines?  Yes.  Can you feel engine vibrations? Yes.  Are they annoyingly loud?   No.  Can you hear them with noise cancelling headphones on?  No.

Just remember the NSW endeavours and Xplorers go much further and they are far louder.

Bathurst bullet is 4 hours and thats with the 5 across seats as well.  


I don't understand some peoples (and railway managements) obsession with locomotives and them being superior.   They aren't superior anymore.
tazzer96
It's Groundhog Day once again on RP

You are bang on, I travel regularly on both Loco hauled and V/Locity services and as I have said before IMO the V/Lo is faster, more comfortable and quieter {depending on where you sit as a previous poster has pointed out) than the clapped out N class / N set combo.

Seats are fine but could be changed if too hard for long haul (V/Los go to Echuca already)

Granted a modern loco and carriage set might be quieter and not have the well past their use by date draught gear banging and crashing between the cars but the realists among us know that the Guvmit ain't going to go out and order any of them so it is a moot point.

I look forward to travelling on a Long Distance Veloset when the BG version is rolled out on the AM Down Swanners
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'I look forward to travelling on a Long Distance Veloset when the BG version is rolled out on the AM Down Swanners'
Bendigo and beyond (pick up Castlemaine only) and you will still be stuffed (haha) ............................ Smile
Sorry - a moment of madness (there just seem to be more of them these days!). Rolling Eyes
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Calm down.

There will be no broad-gauge four-car VLocity sets, because the infrastructure simply isn't set up for them. You would need to change signals, points, maintenance facilities, fuel bays and a hundred other little things to accommodate any rolling-stock arrangement that isn't a multiple of three.

It's not going to happen. It's never going to happen. Save your fretting and flapping for the next generation after VLocitys - if you're still around to see it.
No need to change signals as a 5 N and N loco are longer than a 4 car VL. We have previously run 4, 5 and even 7 car VL sets up to 2015 when we had both 2 and 3 car VL sets.  Fuelling is not an issue you just move the train progressively past the fuel point which is what happens now.

We can run 4 car VL anywhere, we can run 7 to Geelong already, and 8s with platform extensions. We can run 7,s to Ballarat with platform extensions. We can only run 9,s to Wyndham Vale currently, and with platform extensions to possibly the Marsh.

We only need to extend pit roads at Bombardier, CMD and Ballaarat East from 3 to 4 cars currently for lifting sets, and build new maintenance facilities at Waurn Ponds and Ballarat West suitable for 4 car sets.

The cost of modifying the three existing maintenance facilities now would be much lower than locking in the current situation where the capex cost per seat is higher, and the on-going maintenance and opex costs of running uneeded capacity around amount to tens of millions of dollars per annum .
kuldalai
The issues of increasing set sizes from 3 to 4 have already been explained to you in the past, and what NimbleJack has said is correct, it is not nearly as simple as you imagine it to be. 3 car sets is the current sweet spot, not to mention that the network is setup for it. If you can't see the negatives, or the massive amount of work involved to accommodate an additional car, or the reduction in operational flexibility then you're either not looking hard enough or don't understand what you're proposing well enough.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Perhaps it's because I've travelled in them for so many years...but I don't find V'Locity's to be intrusively noisy.
The Vinelander
I agree with you Mike that they're not intrusively noisy and a conversation can be quite easily had without shouting etc, but to me personally, quiet is not the first word i'd use to describe them internally or externally. The combination of the two engines and vibrations just bugs me as a passenger for some reason.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Calm down.

There will be no broad-gauge four-car VLocity sets, because the infrastructure simply isn't set up for them. You would need to change signals, points, maintenance facilities, fuel bays and a hundred other little things to accommodate any rolling-stock arrangement that isn't a multiple of three.

It's not going to happen. It's never going to happen. Save your fretting and flapping for the next generation after VLocitys - if you're still around to see it.
No need to change signals as a 5 N and N loco are longer than a 4 car VL. We have previously run 4, 5 and even 7 car VL sets up to 2015 when we had both 2 and 3 car VL sets.  Fuelling is not an issue you just move the train progressively past the fuel point which is what happens now.

We can run 4 car VL anywhere, we can run 7 to Geelong already, and 8s with platform extensions. We can run 7,s to Ballarat with platform extensions. We can only run 9,s to Wyndham Vale currently, and with platform extensions to possibly the Marsh.

We only need to extend pit roads at Bombardier, CMD and Ballaarat East from 3 to 4 cars currently for lifting sets, and build new maintenance facilities at Waurn Ponds and Ballarat West suitable for 4 car sets.

The cost of modifying the three existing maintenance facilities now would be much lower than locking in the current situation where the capex cost per seat is higher, and the on-going maintenance and opex costs of running uneeded capacity around amount to tens of millions of dollars per annum .
The issues of increasing set sizes from 3 to 4 have already been explained to you in the past, and what NimbleJack has said is correct, it is not nearly as simple as you imagine it to be. 3 car sets is the current sweet spot, not to mention that the network is setup for it. If you can't see the negatives, or the massive amount of work involved to accommodate an additional car, or the reduction in operational flexibility then you're either not looking hard enough or don't understand what you're proposing well enough.
jakar

Another reason why I agree with Kuldalai

Expanding the supporting facilities from a three car set up to a four car set is not a major exercise. In the UK they have 4, 5, 7 & 9 car continuous DMU sets. So I don't see why we can't upscale (slightly) from three cars to four.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
The fuel point at Bendigo may be a problem with lengthening to four car sets, they're squeezed for three cars now
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Expanding the supporting facilities from a three car set up to a four car set is not a major exercise.  
Duncs
Alrighty, lets start with the very basics. Most stabling sidings are able to accommodate either a 3 or 6 car VL. Add a 4 car VL to the mix and all of a sudden the siding that normally fits two 3 car sets can only fit a 4 car and nothing else. Where do you put the 3 car VL that would have normally been able to be stabled with another 3 car VL but now doesn't fit?

Then there's platform availability, fueling, maintenance facilities which will require alterations to their surrounding tracks/yards, different shunting movements and so on.

There's alot more to it than most people realize.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The fuel point at Bendigo may be a problem with lengthening to four car sets, they're squeezed for three cars now
Greensleeves

Is there space to lengthen the access roads?
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

Before the powers that be decided in their infinite wisdom to add a trailer to the 2 car sets we had the flexibility to run 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 car trains but now only 3 or 6 car trains. Such is progress.

On a unrelated matter one of the sets stored at Wyndham Vale, VL88, has been reported in service on an Ararat train today.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
The fuel point at Bendigo may be a problem with lengthening to four car sets, they're squeezed for three cars now

Is there space to lengthen the access roads?
bevans

Not unless you want to knock down part of the Platform 2 station building (which is more than likely heritage listed) and relocate the Bendigo Airport Bus Service to lengthen the siding which used to be 6 Dock.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
I'll try writing this as clearly as possible. Folks here seem to get mighty confused.

VL 00 to 79 are currently in service. That's 80 three-car sets in total. VL 80 to 88 (nine three-car sets in total) are 2018 models. They will be entering service before the end of the year; most are in storage at Wyndham Vale awaiting new windscreens.

After the six three-car SG units (VL 89 to 94), there will be a further 12 three-car 2018-model VL units, taking us to VL 106.

And voilà. We're done.

EDITED: My maths was at fault here, no one else's!
"NimbleJack"


Youtube clip by 'Greensleeves' shows VL88 in service today and apparently most, if not all, of the others of this series are at Bombadier or on their way there for rectification of their windscreen issues.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h04GK1-xmN4

Neil
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
That's because the speed limit of Victoria's locomotive-hauled passenger trains is not much higher than that of freight trains.  Some Freight Australia's N class have been regeared with a top speed of 100 km/h to provide higher torque at lower speeds.
route14
Freight Australia never had any N Class locomotives, they have always been with VLINE
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I'll try writing this as clearly as possible. Folks here seem to get mighty confused.

VL 00 to 79 are currently in service. That's 80 three-car sets in total. VL 80 to 88 (nine three-car sets in total) are 2018 models. They will be entering service before the end of the year; most are in storage at Wyndham Vale awaiting new windscreens.

After the six three-car SG units (VL 89 to 94), there will be a further 12 three-car 2018-model VL units, taking us to VL 106.

And voilà. We're done.

EDITED: My maths was at fault here, no one else's!


Youtube clip by 'Greensleeves' shows VL88 in service today and apparently most, if not all, of the others of this series are at Bombadier or on their way there for rectification of their windscreen issues.

(snipped)

Neil
ngarner
You beat me to it!

Word is that 3VL85 is due into traffic in the next couple of days followed by 3VL80 with the rest following over the coming weeks.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
I'll try writing this as clearly as possible. Folks here seem to get mighty confused.

VL 00 to 79 are currently in service. That's 80 three-car sets in total. VL 80 to 88 (nine three-car sets in total) are 2018 models. They will be entering service before the end of the year; most are in storage at Wyndham Vale awaiting new windscreens.

After the six three-car SG units (VL 89 to 94), there will be a further 12 three-car 2018-model VL units, taking us to VL 106.

And voilà. We're done.

EDITED: My maths was at fault here, no one else's!


Youtube clip by 'Greensleeves' shows VL88 in service today and apparently most, if not all, of the others of this series are at Bombadier or on their way there for rectification of their windscreen issues.

(snipped)

Neil
ngarner
You beat me to it!

Word is that 3VL85 is due into traffic in the next couple of days followed by 3VL80 with the rest following over the coming weeks.
"Greensleeves"


Sorry, stole your thunder! Thanks for the video and the info update

Neil
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Hi Nightfire.  Thanks for your correction on locomotive ownership.  What I've read is that some freight version of N class do have a different gear ratio with a top speed of 100 km/h.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Hi Nightfire.  Thanks for your correction on locomotive ownership.  What I've read is that some freight version of N class do have a different gear ratio with a top speed of 100 km/h.
route14
Perhaps you're thinking of the A Class, which had similar internals as the N Class and which did have some of the class end up in Freight Australia ownership when VLine 1.0 was broken up in the 1990s.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
It's Groundhog Day once again on RP

I look forward to travelling on a Long Distance Veloset when the BG version is rolled out on the AM Down Swanners
BrentonGolding
Agree BG, if fact why not have a mental health day, sat back, relax and take the train all the way to Swanners.

Post a few video's from your phone and send us a field report of the journey, while charging your phone from the new charge points as well as using the new IT system..Razz

Governments have a crack at plenty of projects and seem to Balls plenty up but the choice of the Velocity has been outstanding, reckon they got the speeds right as well. 100mph to the big three regional cities 80mph to Ararat, still got a bit of an itch they should Notch Her up a whisker to Swanners..Razz

BigShunter.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
What is the current line speed to Swan Hill? 100km/h?

Flat straight ground with few stops, 130km/h could be easily achievable with fairly modest upgrades.

The 60 plus level crossings probably limit the chances of 160km/h line speed without major upgrades. 2 or 3 trains per day probably limit the viability of that.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
If I find trains too noisy I just let one rip, that clears them out very quickly..simple..................
trainbrain
One of the rare posts on RP where i come along and add the last reaction so that it can have the full reaction set Smile
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The current speed limit on Swan Hill line is 90 km/h.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
What is the current line speed to Swan Hill? 100km/h?

Flat straight ground with few stops, 130km/h could be easily achievable with fairly modest upgrades.

The 60 plus level crossings probably limit the chances of 160km/h line speed without major upgrades. 2 or 3 trains per day probably limit the viability of that.
Gman_86

AFAIK...100Km/h from Eaglehawk to Kerang, 90Km/h from Kerang to Swan Hill. However it's a tad slow in parts due to several unprotected crossings with 60Km/h limits that have to be sorted.

Mike.
  Jordy33 Station Master

I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: